Influential Billionaire David Koch Dies

[Ifreann]

Me, me the fool: "David Koch famously funded right wing things"
You, an intellectual: "Actually he only funded some right wing things. Typical ignorant left."

No, it's more that he also funded things that many right-wingers strongly oppose.

Oh, well, in that case I've been fully owned.

[Fahran]

Maybe not in your country, but in the US that's exactly how it works.

I live in the US. It doesn't cease to be philanthropy because you get a tax write-off, and I think pouring millions of dollars into medical research, the arts, and prison reform is basically a commendable behavior. People ought to see past the man's libertarian politics and wealth to appreciate the worthwhile things he did.

[Narland]

The title says it all: David Koch has died.

For those that are unaware of him, he was heavily involved in the family run business known as Koch Industries; he was the Vice President of the company. He retired from the company back in 2018 due to health issues. Back in the 90s, he was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer, which kept coming back. This led him to donate millions to medical research, surely a noble thing. That's thanks to his $48 billion dollar net worth, the 11th highest in the world.

He would be most remembered for a few things: his philanthropy for giving to medical research, the arts, establishing the David H. Koch Charitable Foundation, education donations, and prison reform.

But the biggest was his political views; he ran as the Vice President Nominee on the Libertarian Ticket with Ed Clark back in 1980, where they earned one percent of the vote, the most at the time for the Libertarian Party. He considered himself socially liberal and fiscally conservative, basically a Libertarian. But using his net worth, he and his brother Charles Koch would build one of the biggest and influential political networks in America, donating to Libertarian and Republican causes, ranging from free trade, low taxes, fighting to protect former Governor Scott Walker from a recall, and supportive of CATO.

In recent years, they have slowly pulled back from the political realm, donating less and less to political causes. In particular, this increased when Trump became the nominee, an individual they viewed as a danger to the conservative and libertarian movements. Their pullback from politics and waning influence means that this once powerful network is slowly dissipating, leaving a possible void that is bound to be filled by someone else.

So, NationStates.

What's your view on this man? Was he good or bad? To me, I was supportive of him given he politically aligned with me on many issues though I wasn't a fan of all that money in politics and his influence is quite scary. Of course, building one of the biggest political networks has drawn praise and criticism, but whether love him or hate him, he (along with his brother), have helped shaped American Politics in one shape or form. May he rest in peace.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/billion ... -dies.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/billionair ... 1566563837
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/da ... 9-n1045696

Edit: added their slow withdrawal of politics/opposition to Trump.

He (not personally but through a grant) paid my way one year as a teen to a summer camp that taught us how to go out and start our own businesses; how to find our niche in society that we may enjoy in providing a product or service to others at a fair price; and live our own dreams by helping others. It (pre-internet) gave us opportunities to network with others and to not just go out and work flipping burgers for someone else's dream or getting crushed by the "rat race." I am thankful for that opportunity to see life as a way to help meet the needs of others through personal industry, general entrepreneurship and free-market enterprise.

While I do not agree with all of his politics, his passion that life should be lived/enjoyed to its fullest, and conviction that life without Liberty is slavery/drudgery (obviously), resonated strongly with me. It reinforced my Grandparent's tenets to not just go out and get a job, but go out and make jobs, and teach others how to do the same so that aren't victims of circumstance to be used as pawns by others. I think that is what Statists on both the Left and the Right hated most about the application of his philanthropy and political ideology.

[Ifreann]

Maybe not in your country, but in the US that's exactly how it works.

I live in the US. It doesn't cease to be philanthropy because you get a tax write-off, and I think pouring millions of dollars into medical research, the arts, and prison reform is basically a commendable behavior. People ought to see past the man's libertarian politics and wealth to appreciate the worthwhile things he did.

Koch funded medical research.
Koch also funded opposition to healthcare reform.

Clearly a saint of a man, to generously give up his wealth on efforts to save his own life and to keep other people from reaping the benefits of that research.

[Old Tyrannia]

Maybe not in your country, but in the US that's exactly how it works.

I live in the US. It doesn't cease to be philanthropy because you get a tax write-off, and I think pouring millions of dollars into medical research, the arts, and prison reform is basically a commendable behavior. People ought to see past the man's libertarian politics and wealth to appreciate the worthwhile things he did.

Most significant people through history have done good as well as bad things, but where the bad clearly outweighs the good we don't usually take the time to praise them for their positive achievements. No one remembers Adolf Hitler as "the 20th century fascist dictator and prominent animal welfare pioneer."

[Bear Stearns]

No, it's more that he also funded things that many right-wingers strongly oppose.

Oh, well, in that case I've been fully owned.

It's as if you don't care about facts and just want to smear all political opponents without critical thinking.

[Aureumterra]

Oh, well, in that case I've been fully owned.

It's as if you don't care about facts and just want to smear all political opponents without critical thinking.

[Ifreann]

Oh, well, in that case I've been fully owned.

It's as if you don't care about facts and just want to smear all political opponents without critical thinking.

It's as if I'm not actually being contradicted at all.

[The Serbian Empire]

Good riddance, I hated the man with a passion.

[Saiwania]

A shame he didn't live long enough to see his wealth seized.

Why does his wealth need seizing? This is a hard sell to any Baby Boomer or even a more recent generation that takes financial liberty to heart.

David Koch was rich to begin with because he inherited it, and earned it fair and square, or put his money to smart uses that were profitable. If he were a dumbass, he could've spent all of his money and became poor instead of remaining rich.

[Fahran]

Koch funded medical research.
Koch also funded opposition to healthcare reform.

Did he oppose the ACA and universal healthcare for malicious reasons? Or was he doing what he thought was best for people because "muh libertarianism"? A lot of the reasons for hating him seem political more so than personal.

Clearly a saint of a man, to generously give up his wealth on efforts to save his own life and to keep other people from reaping the benefits of that research.

Um, he donated to a decent swathe of causes from the look of it.

[Djuph]

There will be a lot of GOP consultants weeping over his death.

And the Koch family will have about a week when no-one will dare to make nasty comments about their wealth, how they acquired it, how they use it politically, how many governors are in their pocket. Seriously, this will work better for their image then that spending spree on PR commercials airing in 2012.

Will his heirs inherit his desire to buy the world, or merely his airs? Time will tell, but no reporter will until the funeral is over.

[Fahran]

Most significant people through history have done good as well as bad things, but where the bad clearly outweighs the good we don't usually take the time to praise them for their positive achievements. No one remembers Adolf Hitler as "the 20th century fascist dictator and prominent animal welfare pioneer."

David Koch isn't really relative to Adolf Hitler. He certainly doesn't warrant the level of vitriol we've seen throughout this thread. Sometimes, a simple "rest in peace" suffices, unless we're actually going to analyze his legacy more substantively than "rich man bad." I mean I expect the political right to act the same way when Soros passes, but that'll be just as ugly and hateful as a lot of this is.

[Djuph]

Well, Soros actually assisted the Nazis, so you may expect me to step up the vitriol when that happens (while still observing the rule about no gravedancing).

[Ifreann]

A shame he didn't live long enough to see his wealth seized.

Why does his wealth need seizing?

To put to better use than ivory back-scratchers.

This is a hard sell to any Baby Boomer or even a more recent generation that takes financial liberty to heart.

David Koch was rich to begin with because he inherited it, and earned it fair and square, or put his money to smart uses that were profitable. If he were a dumbass, he could've spent all of his money and became poor instead of remaining rich.

I don't care.

---

Koch funded medical research.
Koch also funded opposition to healthcare reform.

Did he oppose the ACA and universal healthcare for malicious reasons? Or was he doing what he thought was best for people because "muh libertarianism"? A lot of the reasons for hating him seem political more so than personal.

Yeah, and?

Clearly a saint of a man, to generously give up his wealth on efforts to save his own life and to keep other people from reaping the benefits of that research.

Um, he donated to a decent swathe of causes from the look of it.

And also fucked the world to profit himself. The odd bit of philanthropy here and there doesn't undo all the bad shit he did.

[Old Tyrannia]

Most significant people through history have done good as well as bad things, but where the bad clearly outweighs the good we don't usually take the time to praise them for their positive achievements. No one remembers Adolf Hitler as "the 20th century fascist dictator and prominent animal welfare pioneer."

David Koch isn't really relative to Adolf Hitler. He certainly doesn't warrant the level of vitriol we've seen throughout this thread. Sometimes, a simple "rest in peace" suffices, unless we're actually going to analyze his legacy more substantively than "rich man bad." I mean I expect the political right to act the same way when Soros passes, but that'll be just as ugly and hateful as a lot of this is.

His actions may well contribute to a greater number of deaths by the end of this century than Hitler's did. I think it's a fair comparison. When historians look back at the life of David Koch, they will not focus on his charitable donations or positions on same-sex marriage and drug legalisation. They'll focus on the role he played in creating the greatest environmental disaster in recorded history.

[Aurevbush]

Bois, WE"VE GOT ONE!

[Aureumterra]

Well, Soros actually assisted the Nazis, so you may expect me to step up the vitriol when that happens (while still observing the rule about no gravedancing).

Sugar daddies are bad regardless of politics

[Duvniask]

I won’t be shedding any tears over this bastard. Please don’t rest in peace.

[Fahran]

Well, Soros actually assisted the Nazis, so you may expect me to step up the vitriol when that happens (while still observing the rule about no gravedancing).

That's a lie.

[Saiwania]

To put to better use than ivory back-scratchers. I don't care.

The government often can't put money to better use than private citizens, I know this to be a fact. If you want a rich person's wealth seized just because they're rich or are ideologically opposed to you, then you should be at the mercy of the state to the same extent as they are. Fair to me that if their money is taken away, that yours is as well. We will all "share the pain" if Liberals get their way.

[Waterfall State]

He will not be missed by me personally.

As far as I'm concerned, what he did led to a worsening of the General state of the world at large, especially in the environment and propagating the wealth hoarding of the oligarchic billionaire class.

No amount of NYT articles or mainstream media pandering will change my mind.

[Djuph]

Well, Soros actually assisted the Nazis, so you may expect me to step up the vitriol when that happens (while still observing the rule about no gravedancing).

That's a lie.

O very well: here's nuance:

He assisted the Hungarians who were prosecuting Jews in their efforts to assist their Nazi overlords.

And David Koch financed Political Action Committees who did not offcially consort with individual right-wing candidates' election campaign teams and therefore could spend unlimited amounts of money on election campaign efforts that were amazingly synchronised with whatever message those candidates' campaigns were pushing.

[Fahran]

His actions may well contribute to a greater number of deaths by the end of this century than Hitler's did. I think it's a fair comparison. When historians look back at the life of David Koch, they will not focus on his charitable donations or positions on same-sex marriage and drug legalisation. They'll focus on the role he played in creating the greatest environmental disaster in recorded history.

Koch's role in facilitating the environmental disaster was a pretty minuscule one comparatively. Even widespread acceptance of man-made climate change doesn't do a whole lot to halt the slow march towards doom because climate change is the prisoners' dilemma writ large and people generally like consuming. I do think it's legitimate to criticize his role, but I'm mostly concerned about the naked vileness of a lot of these remarks and comments. They aren't well-considered. They're lashing out at a political enemy.

[Gravlen]

Well, Soros actually assisted the Nazis, so you may expect me to step up the vitriol when that happens (while still observing the rule about no gravedancing).

That is a lie.