Atheism Discussion Thread:Tipping the Fedora

[Hanafuridake]

The Bible says otherwise. Everyone deserves infinite punishment for sins.

Then why are people allowed into heaven for becoming Christian? If human beings deserve unlimited pain for their moral failings, then accepting a religion has absolutely no bearing whatsoever. Anymore than a serious criminal expressing repentance before the law would be released.

Your religion doesn't even adhere to its own internal logic.

[Geneviev]

The Bible says otherwise. Everyone deserves infinite punishment for sins.

Then why are people allowed into heaven for becoming Christian? If human beings deserve unlimited pain for their moral failings, then accepting a religion has absolutely no bearing whatsoever. Anymore than a serious criminal expressing repentance before the law would be released.

Your religion doesn't even adhere to its own internal logic.

The Bible says that trusting Jesus will allow all of your sins to be forgiven.

And, not my religion.

[Andsed]

No that is exactly what the bible said. You said it yourself:


If someone deserve eternal torture than they are fundamentally fucked up beyond repair as nothing else could justify such an extreme punishment. Unless god is just an power mad asshole which brings up disturbing implications for those who worship him.

The Bible says that's part of being human.

So yeah when your telling someone their going to hell your basically telling them because they are ¨human¨ they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture? Thanks for confirming.

[Geneviev]

The Bible says that's part of being human.

So yeah when your telling someone their going to hell it is because they are ¨human¨ aka being a fundamentally fucked up thing? Thanks for confirming.

That's almost what they think, but they're also human and still aren't trying to insult you.

[Des-Bal]

So yeah when your telling someone their going to hell your basically telling them because they are ¨human¨ they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture? Thanks for confirming.

It's not a gotcha and you don't get to logic here. The claim is "this is how things work" not "this is nice for you."

[Andsed]

So yeah when your telling someone their going to hell it is because they are ¨human¨ aka being a fundamentally fucked up thing? Thanks for confirming.

That's almost what they think, but they're also human and still aren't trying to insult you.

Okay? Does not change the fact their basically saying that someone is so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture which is a pretty insulting thing to anyone who is not a die hard Christian.

So yeah when your telling someone their going to hell your basically telling them because they are ¨human¨ they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture? Thanks for confirming.

It's not a gotcha and you don't get to logic here. The claim is "this is how things work" not "this is nice for you."

Okay? I don´t know what point your trying to make here but okay I guess?

[Geneviev]

That's almost what they think, but they're also human and still aren't trying to insult you.

Okay? Does not change the fact their basically saying that someone is so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture which is a pretty insulting thing to anyone who is not a die hard Christian.

The fact that you feel insulted doesn't mean it is insulting, and it doesn't mean that Christians are trying to insult you.

[Neanderthaland]

So yeah when your telling someone their going to hell your basically telling them because they are ¨human¨ they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture? Thanks for confirming.

It's not a gotcha and you don't get to logic here. The claim is "this is how things work" not "this is nice for you."

As soon as you involve an all powerful being that can make anything work however it wants. That sort of flies out the window.

[Andsed]

Okay? Does not change the fact their basically saying that someone is so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture which is a pretty insulting thing to anyone who is not a die hard Christian.

The fact that you feel insulted doesn't mean it is insulting, and it doesn't mean that Christians are trying to insult you.

Oh cut the bullshit. Just because someone may not mean to be insulting does not mean it is not insulting to tell someone they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture. If you honestly cannot see why that is an insulting thing to say than I am honestly speechless.

[Geneviev]

The fact that you feel insulted doesn't mean it is insulting, and it doesn't mean that Christians are trying to insult you.

Oh cut the bullshit. Just because someone may not mean to be insulting does not mean it is not insulting to tell someone they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture. If you honestly cannot see why that is an insulting thing to say than I am honestly speechless.

Trying to save a person from eternal torture should still not be considered insulting. If you were perfect, then it might be insulting. But all they're saying is that you're not perfect and they're trying to help you.

[Genivaria]

Oh cut the bullshit. Just because someone may not mean to be insulting does not mean it is not insulting to tell someone they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture. If you honestly cannot see why that is an insulting thing to say than I am honestly speechless.

Trying to save a person from eternal torture should still not be considered insulting. If you were perfect, then it might be insulting. But all they're saying is that you're not perfect and they're trying to help you.

Oh fuck off with that bullshit.
You're telling people they deserve to be tortured forever, there is no standard of person who WOULDN'T feel insulted.

[Geneviev]

Trying to save a person from eternal torture should still not be considered insulting. If you were perfect, then it might be insulting. But all they're saying is that you're not perfect and they're trying to help you.

Oh fuck off with that bullshit.
You're telling people they deserve to be tortured forever, there is no standard of person who WOULDN'T feel insulted.

People shouldn't feel insulted by someone trying to help them.

[Andsed]

Oh cut the bullshit. Just because someone may not mean to be insulting does not mean it is not insulting to tell someone they are so fundamentally fucked up they deserve eternal torture. If you honestly cannot see why that is an insulting thing to say than I am honestly speechless.

Trying to save a person from eternal torture should still not be considered insulting. If you were perfect, then it might be insulting. But all they're saying is that you're not perfect and they're trying to help you.

Saving someone is not a bad thing. But doing it by telling them they are so fucked up they deserve to suffer forever(which is what your doing let´s not kid ourselves) is a fucked up and insulting thing to do.

Oh fuck off with that bullshit.
You're telling people they deserve to be tortured forever, there is no standard of person who WOULDN'T feel insulted.

People shouldn't feel insulted by someone trying to help them.

It is not unreasonable to be insulted when that person does it by telling them they deserve to suffer forever.

[Geneviev]

Trying to save a person from eternal torture should still not be considered insulting. If you were perfect, then it might be insulting. But all they're saying is that you're not perfect and they're trying to help you.

Saving someone is not a bad thing. But doing it by telling them they are so fucked up they deserve to suffer forever(which is what your doing let´s not kid ourselves) is a fucked up and insulting thing to do.

When someone believes that someone will be tortured for eternity unless they are warned about the danger, the best thing to do is tell them that they will be tortured for eternity and tell them how they can be saved from it. Not saying anything would be condemning another person to eternal suffering.

[Genivaria]

Oh fuck off with that bullshit.
You're telling people they deserve to be tortured forever, there is no standard of person who WOULDN'T feel insulted.

People shouldn't feel insulted by someone trying to help them.

You repeat that phrase like a broken record, what a fucking joke.

[Geneviev]

People shouldn't feel insulted by someone trying to help them.

You repeat that phrase like a broken record, what a fucking joke.

That's what they're doing.

[Genivaria]

You repeat that phrase like a broken record, what a fucking joke.

That's what they're doing.

"I'm here to help."-says the conman.

[Geneviev]

That's what they're doing.

"I'm here to help."-says the conman.

Christians aren't conmen.

[Genivaria]

"I'm here to help."-says the conman.

Christians aren't conmen.

No, just those like you.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then why are people allowed into heaven for becoming Christian? If human beings deserve unlimited pain for their moral failings, then accepting a religion has absolutely no bearing whatsoever. Anymore than a serious criminal expressing repentance before the law would be released.

Your religion doesn't even adhere to its own internal logic.

The Bible says that trusting Jesus will allow all of your sins to be forgiven.

And, not my religion.

Since it's not your religion, have you considered you might not be the best ambassador for its beliefs? There's a number of things I've seen in the last couple pages that are either outright wrong or not universal among Christians.

[Neanderthaland]

The Bible says that trusting Jesus will allow all of your sins to be forgiven.

And, not my religion.

Since it's not your religion, have you considered you might not be the best ambassador for its beliefs? There's a number of things I've seen in the last couple pages that are either outright wrong or not universal among Christians.

I had hoped that abandoning "born again" Christianity would shake Gen of some of his bad habits. Like conflating his particular brand of Christianity with all of Christianity. Or just stubbornly repeating the same line of argument over and over again without really addressing criticism of it.

It seems that this hasn't happened. I'm not sure what to make of that. Part of me doubts his sincerity, which I hope I am mistaken about.

[The Imperium Empires]

I would have said Atheist at one point, but I came to the realisation some time ago that I do not in fact know if there is no deity much in the same way theists don't know if their God/Gods even exist. I doubt the existence of a deity or any other inter/extradimensional beings but I have neither the knowledge or evidence not prove/disprove its existence.

[Pacomia]

I would have said Atheist at one point, but I came to the realisation some time ago that I do not in fact know if there is no deity much in the same way theists don't know if their God/Gods even exist. I doubt the existence of a deity or any other inter/extradimensional beings but I have neither the knowledge or evidence not prove/disprove its existence.

Basically same here. It's just... there's no explanation for a god. It's far more likely that there is no god than that there is one. But then again, I just don't know.

[Neutraligon]

Oh fuck off with that bullshit.
You're telling people they deserve to be tortured forever, there is no standard of person who WOULDN'T feel insulted.

People shouldn't feel insulted by someone trying to help them.

And so you should not have a problem with the woman trying to help her baby. You can''t have it both ways.

[Neutraligon]

I would have said Atheist at one point, but I came to the realisation some time ago that I do not in fact know if there is no deity much in the same way theists don't know if their God/Gods even exist. I doubt the existence of a deity or any other inter/extradimensional beings but I have neither the knowledge or evidence not prove/disprove its existence.

Atheists do not necessarily say there is no god, rather they simply do not believe there is one.