Palestinian police vow crackdown on LGBT events

[Ciputra]

Wow! When? Since 1948 there has been no major ethnic cleansing I'm aware of in Israel.

The settlements are ethnic cleansing, they force Palestinian villages off of their land, then build new towns for Jews.

Sure it is...
Looks like we never see the end of this conflict soon enough

[Ciputra]

Ngl who cares - I feel like Palestine has bigger problems than the 1% of their population that is gay

Yup mate, I agree with you

[Sapientia Et Bellum]

In other news, Palestine is still a shitty place ran by islamic extremists (and a literal terrorist organization)... who knew?

[New haven america]

This isn't a good way to get international support for your cause, Palestine.

[New haven america]

Pride month is literally a celebration of Stonewall. New York City hosts the biggest pride parade in the world every year on the anniversary of the riot. The moment is considered to be the beginning of the modern LGBTQ rights movement in the US. It is literally the single most celebrated event in our history. No, you are absolutely misinformed if you think the optics of this have hurt us. It's one of our proudest moments. The immediate reaction by the political and social establishment says nothing about the incredible longstanding legacy this had for us.

Look, we're not a hive mind, as a community we can disagree on what events in LGBTQ history we want to venerate or not, and I'd rather not venerate a violent riot that caused one of Greenwich Village's most liberal newspapers to publish relentlessly-negative coverage of the violence and by any sane metric set back the movement and mainstream acceptance of LGBTQ rights. Maybe it kick-started the modern LGBTQ activist movement but the Stonewall Riots themselves are nothing to be proud of, in my view. And me being a member of the community doesn't automatically mean I have to hold the same opinion about this event in history.

Purg is against persecuted minorities fighting for equal rights and fair treatment? Shocking. I totally didn't expect that coming from the person that says black people shouldn't have started the CRM and should've just accepted the abuses that happened to them.

[Luziyca]

I am disappointed that the Fatah government wants to crack down on Palestine's LGBT+ population, especially when there are far bigger issues to deal with.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Both the President and Prime Minister are not from Hamas. The Legislative Council, which Hamas controls, doesn't exist anymore.

Oh, how mendacious of you! "Doesn't exist any more", my ass! The truth of the matter is that after Hamas won the 2007 parliamentary elections, Abbas dismissed parliament, and has ruled by decree since. He is a dictator. Period. Whatever the PA constitution says about how the area is governed, it is a dictatorship. Abbas has not stood for election in well over a decade, despite the PA holding (dubious) local elections within the last couple of years. If there's any "occupying power" in the West Bank, it's the PA, holding power despite having lost the mandate of the people.

I'm sure I've made some small mistakes in the details; it's been a while since I looked up the exact events, and frankly I don't care that much. Except that the thread concerns the conduct of the PA, and that their policy has some connection to what the majority thinks. If it does, it's an accident; they don't answer to the majority any more.

For comparison, across the border, there's an annual pride parade in Israel, which even goes through Jerusalem... over the objections of their religious fanatics. You may judge for yourself who's in the right on this issue.

"On this issue" deliberately. If you think I give the Israelis carte blanche, you're mistaken.

There is an occupying power, Israel controls most of the West Bank.

Trading ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians for gay rights seems pretty warped to me.

[Ciputra]

This isn't a good way to get international support for your cause, Palestine.

Either Israel,

[Pere Housh Alpha]

This isn't a good way to get international support for your cause, Palestine.

Agreed

[Purgatio]

Look, we're not a hive mind, as a community we can disagree on what events in LGBTQ history we want to venerate or not, and I'd rather not venerate a violent riot that caused one of Greenwich Village's most liberal newspapers to publish relentlessly-negative coverage of the violence and by any sane metric set back the movement and mainstream acceptance of LGBTQ rights. Maybe it kick-started the modern LGBTQ activist movement but the Stonewall Riots themselves are nothing to be proud of, in my view. And me being a member of the community doesn't automatically mean I have to hold the same opinion about this event in history.

Purg is against persecuted minorities fighting for equal rights and fair treatment? Shocking. I totally didn't expect that coming from the person that says black people shouldn't have started the CRM and should've just accepted the abuses that happened to them.

I've never advocated this though, all I said was that the mass violence and rioting in the inner cities in the 60s and 70s and the butchering and slaughter of many innocent people by self-professed 'activists' in that time period was morally-reprehensible and ought to be condemned by all decent people with empathy, as it should be, because mass murder is still wrong whatever the circumstances.

[Thermodolia]

How disgusting.
That said people who use this to hate on Palestine and to essentially call them barbarians, uncivilized, etc. and be racist to them as well as be hostile to Muslims, are just as sickening.

Having a shitty human rights record is a perfectly good reason to hate a nation

[Thermodolia]

No I mean "Palestinians are evil people ebil muslims look how barbaric they are!"

Keep in mind I'm very Pro-Israel. I'm not condoning this action at all. I'm condemning it.

I don't know why you would be pro for a rogue state that illegally acquired nuclear weapons and arguably commits ethnic cleansing on illegally occupied territory.

I wouldn’t say they illegally acquired nuclear weapons considering that the French pretty much gave them the know how to build them

[Dumb Ideologies]

Like many things, Palestine is a much nicer idea in theory than in reality.

[Thermodolia]

What's that? More importantly how the fuck is Israel an apartheid state? Where the fuck are da Israeli puppets, I mean Bantustans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayton_Agreement

The way it treats the Palestinians is pretty damn similar to how the whites treated every other race in South Africa under Apartheid.

Except it isn’t. Apartheid was way way worse. You didn’t see minority group specific parties in the parliament of South Africa. Hell minorities couldn’t vote under Apartheid. In Israel they can.

So it’s a tad bit disingenuous to claim that what Israel is doing is apartheid

[The New California Republic]

This isn't a good way to get international support for your cause, Palestine.

Either Israel,

What? What does Israel have to do with this?

[Thermodolia]

Let’s us review the OP then.
In rather typical Islamic fundamentalist fashion Palestinian police in the West Bank have banned a planned event by LGBT organizers and threatened to arrest anyone involved. Obviously, I believe this is a grotesque abuse of power and demonstrates the continued persecution that these people face in Palestine.

I see “Islamic fundamentalist”, that is not all Muslims, not by a long shot.

"Islamic fundamentalist" is often a dogwhistle for "anyone who is visibly muslim".

I think you need your hearing checked then. Because Islamic fundamentalists is pretty fucking explicit. There’s really no need to dogwhistle this shit. They’d just say Muslims bad.

We had a fundie on here until he got DOSd there’s a difference between him and the rest of NSG’s Muslim community

[SD_Film Artists]

I think they do it on reflex; the right-wing anti-semites doing it because Hitler did and the left-wing anti-semites doing it because of their equally arbitrary position* on the Israel-Palestine conflict.

*Palestine was never socialist and I doubt that they're pro-LGBT.

Called it!

Truly sad they did that. LGBT people should be allowed to manifest.

One might say it's their destiny.

I see what you did there!

[Saciu]

Unsurprising. If only the Middle East had a country that respected LGBT people like human beings...

[Rojava Free State]

I once heard a story from a friend of mine from Palestine that when she used to live there and worked in a hair salon, there was a transgender person that came there everyday. The Times are changing there too, and the Palestinian Police need to get with them. I mean seriously there's no need to arrest people for an LGBT event. But of course, "tradition" needs to be defended. I guess we can't have people just living how they wanna live now can we?

[Rojava Free State]

Either Israel,

What? What does Israel have to do with this?

For all its talk, Israel isn't very pro LGBT either. Gay people suffer all.kinda of violence in Israel not just from devout Muslims but from Orthodox Jews too. There was a stabbing a few years ago at a gay pride parade in Israel and it was an orthodox Jewish guy who did it. People don't like hearing that though cause they need the Arabs to be the bad guys and when the Jewish side isn't exactly a moral pedestal, it skews their worldview of who the good and bad side is

[Rojava Free State]

Pride month is literally a celebration of Stonewall. New York City hosts the biggest pride parade in the world every year on the anniversary of the riot. The moment is considered to be the beginning of the modern LGBTQ rights movement in the US. It is literally the single most celebrated event in our history. No, you are absolutely misinformed if you think the optics of this have hurt us. It's one of our proudest moments. The immediate reaction by the political and social establishment says nothing about the incredible longstanding legacy this had for us.

Look, we're not a hive mind, as a community we can disagree on what events in LGBTQ history we want to venerate or not, and I'd rather not venerate a violent riot that caused one of Greenwich Village's most liberal newspapers to publish relentlessly-negative coverage of the violence and by any sane metric set back the movement and mainstream acceptance of LGBTQ rights. Maybe it kick-started the modern LGBTQ activist movement but the Stonewall Riots themselves are nothing to be proud of, in my view. And me being a member of the community doesn't automatically mean I have to hold the same opinion about this event in history.

The stonewall riots happened because police raided a gay bar and couldn't leave people alone. The cops had no one to blame but themselves for it, and there will be riots when peoples' freedom is being compromised.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

Purg is against persecuted minorities fighting for equal rights and fair treatment? Shocking. I totally didn't expect that coming from the person that says black people shouldn't have started the CRM and should've just accepted the abuses that happened to them.

I've never advocated this though, all I said was that the mass violence and rioting in the inner cities in the 60s and 70s and the butchering and slaughter of many innocent people by self-professed 'activists' in that time period was morally-reprehensible and ought to be condemned by all decent people with empathy, as it should be, because mass murder is still wrong whatever the circumstances.

If the government back then actually bothered to forcefully dismantle Jim Crow as soon as possible (Earlier than in 1964) and desegregate the south whatever it takes, along with finally tackling the extreme levels of poverty and inequality among minorities, then you wouldn't have these inner city riots. The root of nearly all crime is poverty, mental disorders, substance abuse, and economic inequality. Remove that and you remove 96% of all violent crime today.

And after people like Malcolm X, Dr. MLK Jr., and Robert Kennedy were all assassinated in the same time period by violent extremists, it's not hard to see why race riots were at an alltime high. Now imagine that, after being a oppressed minority for nearly your whole life, a prominent leader who strongly pushes for basic human rights, reparations, emancipation and dignity to be granted to your kind after centuries of enslavement is assassinated by a violent thug before he could meaningfully dismantle the barriers holding your community back. You would surely feel immense indignation yourself.

[Rojava Free State]

I've never advocated this though, all I said was that the mass violence and rioting in the inner cities in the 60s and 70s and the butchering and slaughter of many innocent people by self-professed 'activists' in that time period was morally-reprehensible and ought to be condemned by all decent people with empathy, as it should be, because mass murder is still wrong whatever the circumstances.

If the government back then actually bothered to forcefully dismantle Jim Crow as soon as possible (Earlier than in 1964) and desegregate the south whatever it takes, along with finally tackling the extreme levels of poverty and inequality among minorities, then you wouldn't have these inner city riots. The root of nearly all crime is poverty, mental disorders, substance abuse, and economic inequality. Remove that and you remove 96% of all violent crime today.

And after people like Malcolm X, Dr. MLK Jr., and Robert Kennedy were all assassinated in the same time period by violent extremists, it's not hard to see why race riots were at an alltime high. Now imagine that, after being a oppressed minority for nearly your whole life, a prominent leader who strongly pushes for basic human rights, reparations, emancipation and dignity to be granted to your kind after centuries of enslavement is assassinated by a violent thug before he could meaningfully dismantle the barriers holding your community back. You would surely feel immense indignation yourself.

Social order means nothing when the social order is actively against you

[The New California Republic]

Either Israel,

What? What does Israel have to do with this?

For all its talk, Israel isn't very pro LGBT either. Gay people suffer all.kinda of violence in Israel not just from devout Muslims but from Orthodox Jews too. There was a stabbing a few years ago at a gay pride parade in Israel and it was an orthodox Jewish guy who did it. People don't like hearing that though cause they need the Arabs to be the bad guys and when the Jewish side isn't exactly a moral pedestal, it skews their worldview of who the good and bad side is

But this specific situation has nothing to do with Israel. Ciputra's statement is just a really bizarre attempt at a whataboutism without actually referring to anything...

[Rojava Free State]

For all its talk, Israel isn't very pro LGBT either. Gay people suffer all.kinda of violence in Israel not just from devout Muslims but from Orthodox Jews too. There was a stabbing a few years ago at a gay pride parade in Israel and it was an orthodox Jewish guy who did it. People don't like hearing that though cause they need the Arabs to be the bad guys and when the Jewish side isn't exactly a moral pedestal, it skews their worldview of who the good and bad side is

But this specific situation has nothing to do with Israel. Ciputra's statement is just a really bizarre attempt at a whataboutism without actually referring to anything...

Yes, this situation is totally on the PA, and they should know better. I'm mentioning Israel because you and I both know the pro Israel side is gonna point to this as an example of why Israel is supposedly awesome and the Palestinians are all horrible monsters that don't deserve human rights. Anytime two countries in conflict have internal issues, one always points at the other ones problems while ignoring its own. It's like that time Iran called America a dictatorship and didn't realize how ironic their statement was