Is familism the worst delusion in the world?

[MineLegotia and Equestria]

So you're saying we should just let life die out? That's foolish, your argument contradicts. We cannot kill others but we must let ourselves die? What type of worldview is that?

It's only a problem if you are a collectivist. Murder and breeding are both collectivist in nature. As an individualist I reject both.

How is murder and breeding collectivist?

From an Darwinistic perspective, this a terrible thing, you want to commit seppuku? YOU want humanity, the pinnacle of Evolution/God's Creation to die out? That is selfish, just because you believe it's better to not let more humans be born? Have you not thought of the potential those humans could have used to better the world? That the fate of humanity should be thrown out? That all those who come after should not be allowed to come? Because we know best for them even though we don't know of the future?

[The Blaatschapen]

Here I define familism as the combination of three irrational ideologies, namely the tendency to have sex (i.e. copulatism), reproduce (i.e. reproducism) and give one's resources freely to family (i.e. microcommunism).

Copulatism is the least irrational among the three for sex is at least pleasurable. However it is not worth what people think it is worth.

Reproducism is insane because reproduction is usually harmful and sometimes deadly to organisms that reproduce.

Reasons to reject communism are all applicable to its special case, namely microcommunism.

NSG, what do you think? More importantly what are your arguments?

P.S. How much is sacrificed on a delusional idea, namely muh bloodline? I think it is easy to discover that familism sucks unless you are a collectivist who believes in the absurd idea that there is an eternal and infinite dynasty known as da bloodline.

No.

It's not sacrificed. People are free in their choices to give stuff away to next of kin, to have sex and to reproduce.

It's like how I "sacrifice" a few euro to get a beer.

[Neko-koku]

However isn't it good to prevent more humans from being born? The nonexistent can not suffer.

Who are you to say whether it is good or bad that another human should exist. Who are you to say that those born into suffering still can't have a valuable life? To deny the existence of future humans based on your own bias on the value of life is a profound evil. People find meaning or lack of it in their lives by their own rationalizations and interactions with the metaphysical. We don't need you to tell us how they will or will not suffer.

Of course. However reality is objective. If a theistic deity/deities exist then 99%+ of humans will predictably end up in some form of hell. Otherwise humans are stuck in this cruel universe. No matter how much humans moralize the Hobbesian State of Nature still lurks in the background.

[Rojava Free State]

Why is it irrational to reproduce? That's literally the meaning of life right there, to spread your genes on. That's what life has been doing since day one on this planet. And it is my die hard intent to reproduce with as many women as physically possible before I die, because if I'm gonna leave this world, I'm leaving parts of me behind.

[Rojava Free State]

Who are you to say whether it is good or bad that another human should exist. Who are you to say that those born into suffering still can't have a valuable life? To deny the existence of future humans based on your own bias on the value of life is a profound evil. People find meaning or lack of it in their lives by their own rationalizations and interactions with the metaphysical. We don't need you to tell us how they will or will not suffer.

Of course. However reality is objective. If a theistic deity/deities exist then 99%+ of humans will predictably end up in some form of hell. Otherwise humans are stuck in this cruel universe.

I mean if an all loving God exists then not necessarily but if it's Yaweh/Jesus's dad/Allah then we are so screwed

[The Emerald Legion]

I mean it's not really microcommunism now is it? At least historically speaking the idea that your Children were more or less your property to do with as you please, up to and including selling them into slavery in the Roman context, means that you were having sex, which is pleasurable. Then producing valuable assets in the form of more hands to aid the family. Daughters could be married off to secure alliances if you were rich/noble or for an extra bit of livestock or goods as part of the Bride Price. Sons would be able to bring in value through their labors and help expand the family business.

It's capitalism at it's purest. The fact that socialists have done their darndest to fuck up our lovely capitalistic system with their social nonsense and then blame the issues on capitalism doesn't make them right.

That also fucking sucks because it also grossly violates individualism.

Does it though? Not really that much more than any other capitalistic exchange. Your parents took the risk and made the investment into making and supporting you through your formative years, then you repay them. Once they're gone you're free to do as you wish.

[Neko-koku]

Why is it irrational to reproduce? That's literally the meaning of life right there, to spread your genes on. That's what life has been doing since day one on this planet. And it is my die hard intent to reproduce with as many women as physically possible before I die, because if I'm gonna leave this world, I'm leaving parts of me behind.

That's a delusion.

Are you willing to be murdered and..uh have two clones of you living on?

[Neko-koku]

That also fucking sucks because it also grossly violates individualism.

Does it though? Not really that much more than any other capitalistic exchange. Your parents took the risk and made the investment into making and supporting you through your formative years, then you repay them. Once they're gone you're free to do as you wish.

That's actually a very good reason why bringing a human into the world is inherently cruel. NOBODY EVER ASKED TO BE BORN, LET ALONE BE BORN INTO A WORLD UNDER ABSOLUTE PARENTAL POWER!

[MineLegotia and Equestria]

Who are you to say whether it is good or bad that another human should exist. Who are you to say that those born into suffering still can't have a valuable life? To deny the existence of future humans based on your own bias on the value of life is a profound evil. People find meaning or lack of it in their lives by their own rationalizations and interactions with the metaphysical. We don't need you to tell us how they will or will not suffer.

Of course. However reality is objective. If a theistic deity/deities exist then 99%+ of humans will predictably end up in some form of hell. Otherwise humans are stuck in this cruel universe. No matter how much humans moralize the Hobbesian State of Nature still lurks in the background.

But remember, humanity is delusional. We will be happy, if we accept God. We will not be happy, if we fight Him.
The same goes for all beliefs, we accept it, we become happier.

Hell is relative.

[Neko-koku]

Of course. However reality is objective. If a theistic deity/deities exist then 99%+ of humans will predictably end up in some form of hell. Otherwise humans are stuck in this cruel universe. No matter how much humans moralize the Hobbesian State of Nature still lurks in the background.

But remember, humanity is delusional. We will be happy, if we accept God. We will not be happy, if we fight Him.
The same goes for all beliefs, we accept it, we become happier.

Hell is relative.

Wut? What's really funny is that from an either secular or mainstream (Abrahamic? Why do you use a singular God) theist POV it makes no sense.

Pursuing happiness instead of truth is also evil.

[Inyourfaceistan]

Here I define familism as the combination of three irrational ideologies, namely the tendency to have sex (i.e. copulatism), reproduce (i.e. reproducism) and give one's resources freely to family (i.e. microcommunism).

Copulatism is the least irrational among the three for sex is at least pleasurable. However it is not worth what people think it is worth.

Reproducism is insane because reproduction is usually harmful and sometimes deadly to organisms that reproduce.

Reasons to reject communism are all applicable to its special case, namely microcommunism.

NSG, what do you think? More importantly what are your arguments?

P.S. How much is sacrificed on a delusional idea, namely muh bloodline? I think it is easy to discover that familism sucks unless you are a collectivist who believes in the absurd idea that there is an eternal and infinite dynasty known as da bloodline.

Darwin would like a word with you.

[Hakons]

Who are you to say whether it is good or bad that another human should exist. Who are you to say that those born into suffering still can't have a valuable life? To deny the existence of future humans based on your own bias on the value of life is a profound evil. People find meaning or lack of it in their lives by their own rationalizations and interactions with the metaphysical. We don't need you to tell us how they will or will not suffer.

Of course. However reality is objective. If a theistic deity/deities exist then 99%+ of humans will predictably end up in some form of hell. Otherwise humans are stuck in this cruel universe. No matter how much humans moralize the Hobbesian State of Nature still lurks in the background.

Taking up the existence of God doesn't necessitate 99% of souls having a terrible afterlife. Regardless your metaphysical conclusions, your views on reality and your views on what comes after still give you no merit to forming the conclusions of other people and future generations.

[The Blaatschapen]

Why is it irrational to reproduce? That's literally the meaning of life right there, to spread your genes on. That's what life has been doing since day one on this planet. And it is my die hard intent to reproduce with as many women as physically possible before I die, because if I'm gonna leave this world, I'm leaving parts of me behind.

Charming.

[Rojava Free State]

Why is it irrational to reproduce? That's literally the meaning of life right there, to spread your genes on. That's what life has been doing since day one on this planet. And it is my die hard intent to reproduce with as many women as physically possible before I die, because if I'm gonna leave this world, I'm leaving parts of me behind.

That's a delusion.

Are you willing to be murdered and..uh have two clones of you living on?

I don't wanna be murdered but if the choice is between that and dying and having none of my genes live on, I'm taking that. I'm probably gonna die in the next decade anyhow so I may as well leave my genes as a testament to my existence. You can forget my name but you won't forget my bronze skin, wavy dark brown hair or improvisation skills when I spread it to countless generations in the future

Matter of fact, I would take that bargain if we could postpone it till I'm 30 and then clone me like 2000 times. I want my funeral to be attended by me, I want the Paul brearers to be me and I want the guy reading the eulogy to be me. We can invite some other people too though and watch them applaud confused after the clone gets done with the eulogy and the other clone start cheering

[MineLegotia and Equestria]

But remember, humanity is delusional. We will be happy, if we accept God. We will not be happy, if we fight Him.
The same goes for all beliefs, we accept it, we become happier.

Hell is relative.

Wut? What's really funny is that from an either secular or mainstream theist POV it makes no sense.

Pursuing happiness instead of truth is also evil.

Then what is the point of life? I ask you?

[Neko-koku]

Wut? What's really funny is that from an either secular or mainstream theist POV it makes no sense.

Pursuing happiness instead of truth is also evil.

Then what is the point of life? I ask you?

Fighting for resources and dominance.

[MineLegotia and Equestria]

Then what is the point of life? I ask you?

Fighting for resources and dominance.

Fighting for resources and dominace for what? For who? For yourself? If so, didn;t you say it was better to die out?

[Neko-koku]

That's a delusion.

Are you willing to be murdered and..uh have two clones of you living on?

I don't wanna be murdered but if the choice is between that and dying and having none of my genes live on, I'm taking that. I'm probably gonna die in the next decade anyhow so I may as well leave my genes as a testament to my existence. You can forget my name but you won't forget my bronze skin, wavy dark brown hair or improvisation skills when I spread it to countless generations in the future

Matter of fact, I would take that bargain if we could postpone it till I'm 30 and then clone me like 2000 times. I want my funeral to be attended by me, I want the Paul brearers to be me and I want the guy reading the eulogy to be me. We can invite some other people too though and watch them applaud confused after the clone gets done with the eulogy and the other clone start cheering

Wut?

OK.

[Neko-koku]

Fighting for resources and dominance.

Fighting for resources and dominace for what? For who? For yourself? If so, didn;t you say it was better to die out?

Yes, for myself, not for kin lmao.

This does not contradict my claim that it is good not to reproduce..because I won't reproduce.

[MineLegotia and Equestria]

Fighting for resources and dominace for what? For who? For yourself? If so, didn;t you say it was better to die out?

Yes, for myself, not for kin lmao.

I know, but why fight for it if life was so cruel? Wouldn't it be better to just stop fighting and accept death?

[Hakons]

Does it though? Not really that much more than any other capitalistic exchange. Your parents took the risk and made the investment into making and supporting you through your formative years, then you repay them. Once they're gone you're free to do as you wish.

That's actually a very good reason why bringing a human into the world is inherently cruel. NOBODY EVER ASKED TO BE BORN, LET ALONE BE BORN INTO A WORLD UNDER ABSOLUTE PARENTAL POWER!

Saying nobody asked to be born doesn't resolve the same contradiction in your ideology. Nobody asked to not be born. We are, in fact, incapable of asking if we should be born or not.

Everyone's disagreement with you is clear. The beautiful thing about Nature is that there is a natural progression for our differences in view. You will die and your ideology with you, while ours will live on through our progeny. I wish you the best in finding peace in the suffering and joy that is brought to us by living in this world and with God.

[Neko-koku]

Yes, for myself, not for kin lmao.

I know, but why fight for it if life was so cruel? Wouldn't it be better to just stop fighting and accept death?

For pride. If in this cruel world one dude lives for one more second than the other then the former does better.

The last one to die is the winner.

[MineLegotia and Equestria]

That's actually a very good reason why bringing a human into the world is inherently cruel. NOBODY EVER ASKED TO BE BORN, LET ALONE BE BORN INTO A WORLD UNDER ABSOLUTE PARENTAL POWER!

Saying nobody asked to be born doesn't resolve the same contradiction in your ideology. Nobody asked to not be born. We are, in fact, incapable of asking if we should be born or not.

Everyone's disagreement with you is clear. The beautiful thing about Nature is that there is a natural progression for our differences in view. You will die and your ideology with you, while ours will live on through our progeny. I wish you the best in finding peace in the suffering and joy that is brought to us by living in this world and with God.

Agreed. Darwinism has it's truth in the nature of ideas, those that does not adapt will die out, those which do, will live on.

[Neko-koku]

That's actually a very good reason why bringing a human into the world is inherently cruel. NOBODY EVER ASKED TO BE BORN, LET ALONE BE BORN INTO A WORLD UNDER ABSOLUTE PARENTAL POWER!

Saying nobody asked to be born doesn't resolve the same contradiction in your ideology. Nobody asked to not be born. We are, in fact, incapable of asking if we should be born or not.

Everyone's disagreement with you is clear. The beautiful thing about Nature is that there is a natural progression for our differences in view. You will die and your ideology with you, while ours will live on through our progeny. I wish you the best in finding peace in the suffering and joy that is brought to us by living in this world and with God.

You argue as if natural selection selects for truth. No. It just selects for memes that happen to be accepted by more people for whatever reasons.

[Neko-koku]

Saying nobody asked to be born doesn't resolve the same contradiction in your ideology. Nobody asked to not be born. We are, in fact, incapable of asking if we should be born or not.

Everyone's disagreement with you is clear. The beautiful thing about Nature is that there is a natural progression for our differences in view. You will die and your ideology with you, while ours will live on through our progeny. I wish you the best in finding peace in the suffering and joy that is brought to us by living in this world and with God.

Agreed. Darwinism has it's truth in the nature of ideas, those that does not adapt will die out, those which do, will live on.

Of course I have made my choice and it is good. Let breeders breed and "enjoy" the universe.