Fascist White Supremacist Rally in Portland Thwarted

[Ifreann]

Assuming that fascism was the only legitimate threat there is childish, narrow-minded, and reeks of willing ignorance.

Who, exactly, has made such an assumption?

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They had one open window which they quickly shut after somebody pointed a finger toward it and, presumably, said mean words that upset their feelings.



Or they could've just driven their armored vehicle, which they were completely safe inside of, to a safer location, like rational people would.



We all know that the totally reasonable response to having your armored Fascist battlebus pelted by rocks from a distance is to storm out of it with hammers and attack people next to the bus who weren't involved in the rock-throwing. /s

If I walk up to you in a Starbucks and threaten to punch you in the face unless you leave, are you under an obligation to leave? Just because I'm threatening you with violence? Of course not, I'm the one in the wrong and you have a lawful right to remain in the Starbucks and defend yourself, with violence, rather than be forced to submit to my unlawful threat.

Just because a bunch of ANTIFA thugs start throwing rocks at you unprovoked doesn't mean you're now forced to disembark elsewhere. You are excusing criminality by imposing an obligation on people to submit to criminal threats of violence. Which I doubt you'd apply such reasoning to any other group, you just happen to not like this group's political views so you're unwilling to apply the usual standards of decency and protection to them. That's where you and I differ. I still believe my political opponents deserve to be treated with respect.

If I walk up to you on a public street and tell you to fuck off, and someone thirty feet away throws a rock at you, are you justified in caving my skull in with a hammer?

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If you participate in public protests, you're far more likely to be injured if not killed. I think it to be a bad risk regardless of what its about. There are plenty of other ways to use leverage in politics that're just as effective and safer than being apart of some unruly mob that is only going to get run over, dispersed by police/military, or interfered with by another crowd.

Long story short is that most of society, probably doesn't give a damn about your silly protest, go home.

Not unless there actually is cause for social unrest, such as Venezuela's economy being ruined and life for the majority there being unbearable. At least in their situation, they can only improve things by overthrowing their government for someone who'll stop doing what Maduro is doing and start doing what is needed to grow their economy back to normal.

Proud Boys went to Portland to pick a fight. You're criticising your own people.

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I suspect we'd agree on a fair few things if I could sit you down and get you to actually express your sincere beliefs and sincerely respond to mine, instead of just shitposting to piss people off.

I don't really care enough to try, though.

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That looks like anti-fascists getting some digs in on hammer guy after he went for them with his hammer and they took it off him.

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I'm not telling you to do anything, or at least I don't mean to. But if you would be thinking of protesting against fascists, the police are not on your side.

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Product exists: The Super Bowl.

I don't have time to protest, particularly not against a fringe movement with zero traction. But if I do, the Antifa fucks in masks beating people are going to be pretty high on my list of people to avoid, right up there with fascists, police, and girls named Shannon.

That's your prerogative, but most likely you'd be protected by anti-fascists.

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Don't dissemble. Respectable Lawyer is asking Andy Ngo, the snivelling little worm, if the actions of these people on the lower underpass justify his fascist militia friends attacking other people with a hammer.


Bollocks.

I was making a point about how the two men debate with each other. Andy Ngo addressed the factual assertions and substantive criticism of Respectable Law by making a counter-argument, whereas Respectable Law resorted to gutter and uncivil attacks on Ngo as a "snivelling little worm". Objectively, one person comes off better than the other, just as a human being.

There is nothing objective about your judgement here. Andy Ngo clearly is a snivelling little worm to anyone familiar with his work, and Respectable Lawyer is...well, I have no idea, but they don't seem to be a snivelling little worm.

[Purgatio]

They weren't unassociated persons

Yes they were. They weren't throwing rocks; the people on the underpass were.

the people on the bus (whom you call 'fascists')

It's definitely curious how you put 'Fascists' in quotes for the American Guard, a Fascist group with multiple chapters across the United States.

disembarked, and knowing rocks had been continuously thrown at them, needed to defend themselves from the rocks now being thrown in their direction as they disembarked.

So they attacked people who had thrown precisely zero rocks at them. That'll definitely hold up as self-defense in court.

Yes, there were people who were not throwing rocks who were right outside the bus, but it was impossible to not hit them whilst using your hammer to defend yourself from the rocks that were being thrown in your direction.

As we all saw from the videos, the Hammer Fascists were clearly using their hammers to smack wayward rocks out of the air, and only accidentally committed collateral damage against the nearby bystanders.

The law recognises that defensive use of force sometimes involves collateral damage, this is inevitable even in self-defense. If punches you, you are allowed to punch back in self-defense even if it carries the risk that a bystander could get hit.

It was obviously just collateral damage for them to storm out of the bus in force and attack the bystanders on the overpass who weren't throwing any rocks, while the people on the underpass faced no such hammer assault.

Easy for you to rationalise this out, step-by-step, in the comfort of your room on a computer screen. Much harder when you have to fear for your safety because ANTIFA thugs are literally throwing rocks at you unprovoked out of nowhere, you are about to disembark into a crowd filled with at least some violent ANTIFA hooligans and you don't know what to do because you're afraid for your safety. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight the busgoers could have taken a better course of action but when you're scared out of your mind because ANTIFA thugs are attacking you unprovoked its hard to think straight like this. Can't blame them for that.

[Saiwania]

If I walk up to you in a Starbucks and threaten to punch you in the face unless you leave, are you under an obligation to leave? Just because I'm threatening you with violence?

It is likely more prudent to leave than to stay, unless you're a badass who can back up their confidence- but this doesn't always pay off. Maybe you'll get into more trouble if you wind up in a fight and you didn't do what you could to defuse things instead of escalate.

You don't always need to prove something. You should defend your interests but if its a minor matter, it might not hurt to walk away or let them have the illusion of winning.

Miyamoto Musashi is said to have abandoned a challenger that was too eager to fight them. He tricked them into waiting on an island for him to set up their sword duel, and he took away the rope and rowboat to strand them there for a time instead. He could've slayed him in battle, but he ditched them instead.

[Ifreann]

Yes they were. They weren't throwing rocks; the people on the underpass were.



It's definitely curious how you put 'Fascists' in quotes for the American Guard, a Fascist group with multiple chapters across the United States.



So they attacked people who had thrown precisely zero rocks at them. That'll definitely hold up as self-defense in court.



As we all saw from the videos, the Hammer Fascists were clearly using their hammers to smack wayward rocks out of the air, and only accidentally committed collateral damage against the nearby bystanders.



It was obviously just collateral damage for them to storm out of the bus in force and attack the bystanders on the overpass who weren't throwing any rocks, while the people on the underpass faced no such hammer assault.

Easy for you to rationalise this out, step-by-step, in the comfort of your room on a computer screen. Much harder when you have to fear for your safety because ANTIFA thugs are literally throwing rocks at you unprovoked out of nowhere, you are about to disembark into a crowd filled with at least some violent ANTIFA hooligans and you don't know what to do because you're afraid for your safety. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight the busgoers could have taken a better course of action but when you're scared out of your mind because ANTIFA thugs are attacking you unprovoked its hard to think straight like this. Can't blame them for that.

But when Andy Ngo is hospitalised, then "ANTIFA" are terrorists.

Weird.

[San Lumen]

If I walk up to you in a Starbucks and threaten to punch you in the face unless you leave, are you under an obligation to leave? Just because I'm threatening you with violence?

It is likely more prudent to leave than to stay, unless you're a badass who can back up their confidence- but this doesn't always pay off. Maybe you'll get into more trouble if you wind up in a fight and you didn't do what you could to defuse things instead of escalate.

You don't always need to prove something. You should defend your interests but if its a minor matter, it might not hurt to walk away or let them have the illusion of winning.

Miyamoto Musashi is said to have abandoned a challenger that was too eager to fight them. He tricked them into waiting on an island for him to set up their sword duel, and he took away the rope and rowboat to strand them there for a time instead. He could've slayed him in battle, but he ditched them instead.

would you kindly explain what Portland being viable for poaching means?

I still don’t understand why skin color matters to you. What is so special about being white?

[Purgatio]

Easy for you to rationalise this out, step-by-step, in the comfort of your room on a computer screen. Much harder when you have to fear for your safety because ANTIFA thugs are literally throwing rocks at you unprovoked out of nowhere, you are about to disembark into a crowd filled with at least some violent ANTIFA hooligans and you don't know what to do because you're afraid for your safety. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight the busgoers could have taken a better course of action but when you're scared out of your mind because ANTIFA thugs are attacking you unprovoked its hard to think straight like this. Can't blame them for that.

But when Andy Ngo is hospitalised, then "ANTIFA" are terrorists.

Weird.

Is it that hard for you to grasp that Andy Ngo didn't attack anyone? He wasn't throwing rocks at the ANTIFA thugs who started throwing things at him and attacking him completely unprovoked. That's how its different. In one case, rocks were being thrown at people who feared for their safety and responded, with the benefit of hindsight, badly, because its hard to think straight and systematically plan your self-defense when people are throwing rocks at your face and bus.

In contrast, Andy Ngo didn't throw rocks at anyone. He was the victim of an unprovoked ANTIFA attack. That's how it's very, very different.

[Torrocca]

Yes they were. They weren't throwing rocks; the people on the underpass were.



It's definitely curious how you put 'Fascists' in quotes for the American Guard, a Fascist group with multiple chapters across the United States.



So they attacked people who had thrown precisely zero rocks at them. That'll definitely hold up as self-defense in court.



As we all saw from the videos, the Hammer Fascists were clearly using their hammers to smack wayward rocks out of the air, and only accidentally committed collateral damage against the nearby bystanders.



It was obviously just collateral damage for them to storm out of the bus in force and attack the bystanders on the overpass who weren't throwing any rocks, while the people on the underpass faced no such hammer assault.

Easy for you to rationalise this out, step-by-step, in the comfort of your room on a computer screen.

I dunno about you, but I'd feel pretty safe in an armored battlebus that was only being hit by some rocks.

Much harder when you have to fear for your safety because ANTIFA thugs are literally throwing rocks at you unprovoked out of nowhere, you are about to disembark into a crowd filled with at least some violent ANTIFA hooligans and you don't know what to do because you're afraid for your safety.

I dunno about you, but unless my legs were suddenly mind-controlled by an invisible specter or something, I wouldn't exit an armored vehicle and start wailing on random bystanders with a hammer. In fact, I'd probably go and seek out a better place to disembark, since, y'know, that's the smart thing to do.

Maybe with the benefit of hindsight the busgoers could have taken a better course of action but when you're scared out of your mind because ANTIFA thugs are attacking you unprovoked its hard to think straight like this. Can't blame them for that.

I'm sure they felt terrified from inside the safety of an armored vehicle. In fact, I'm doubly-sure that's how they felt after they willingly and voluntarily egressed from it and started hitting the nearest bystanders - who, again, were not throwing any rocks - with hammers.

[Saiwania]

Proud Boys went to Portland to pick a fight. You're criticising your own people.

I don't want either fascists or antifa to be there unnecessarily if it means collateral damage. If the two sides have to war, it should be in more covert ways that is out of the news or in skirmishes that're far more limited where civilians are left alone.

[Necroghastia]

Hasn't Purgatio said fighting words is valid justification for violence? Why does he keep raising a fuss about the white supremacist bus being rock'd?

[Torrocca]

Hasn't Purgatio said fighting words is valid justification for violence? Why does he keep raising a fuss about the white supremacist bus being rock'd?

If the Anti-Fascists on the underpass had thrown one too many rocks at the Armored Fascist Battlebus mini-boss, it would've exploded into a fiery ball and killed all its occupants! Their only option was to attack the Anti-Fascists on the overpass, who were instead busily throwing their special attack, Mean Words, at the mini-boss, instead of a ranged attack! That's how this video game works, right?

[Purgatio]

Easy for you to rationalise this out, step-by-step, in the comfort of your room on a computer screen.

I dunno about you, but I'd feel pretty safe in an armored battlebus that was only being hit by some rocks.

Much harder when you have to fear for your safety because ANTIFA thugs are literally throwing rocks at you unprovoked out of nowhere, you are about to disembark into a crowd filled with at least some violent ANTIFA hooligans and you don't know what to do because you're afraid for your safety.

I dunno about you, but unless my legs were suddenly mind-controlled by an invisible specter or something, I wouldn't exit an armored vehicle and start wailing on random bystanders with a hammer. In fact, I'd probably go and seek out a better place to disembark, since, y'know, that's the smart thing to do.

Maybe with the benefit of hindsight the busgoers could have taken a better course of action but when you're scared out of your mind because ANTIFA thugs are attacking you unprovoked its hard to think straight like this. Can't blame them for that.

I'm sure they felt terrified from inside the safety of an armored vehicle. In fact, I'm doubly-sure that's how they felt after they willingly and voluntarily egressed from it and started hitting the nearest bystanders - who, again, were not throwing any rocks - with hammers.

Again, you're not obliged to stay in the bus or disembark elsewhere just because violent thugs have decided to start pelting you and your vehicle with rocks. You're blaming the victim here, again. You're not obligated morally or legally to submit to unlawful violent threats from others.

[Purgatio]

Hasn't Purgatio said fighting words is valid justification for violence? Why does he keep raising a fuss about the white supremacist bus being rock'd?

What does one have to do with the other?

[Takso]

The legitimization of political violence on both sides is a disturbing trend.

[Torrocca]

I dunno about you, but I'd feel pretty safe in an armored battlebus that was only being hit by some rocks.



I dunno about you, but unless my legs were suddenly mind-controlled by an invisible specter or something, I wouldn't exit an armored vehicle and start wailing on random bystanders with a hammer. In fact, I'd probably go and seek out a better place to disembark, since, y'know, that's the smart thing to do.



I'm sure they felt terrified from inside the safety of an armored vehicle. In fact, I'm doubly-sure that's how they felt after they willingly and voluntarily egressed from it and started hitting the nearest bystanders - who, again, were not throwing any rocks - with hammers.

Again, you're not obliged to stay in the bus or disembark elsewhere just because violent thugs have decided to start pelting you and your vehicle with rocks.

News flash: you're also not obligated to disembark from an armored vehicle to start savagely hitting the nearest bystanders with hammers because some people in a completely different location are hitting your armored vehicle with rocks.

You're blaming the victim here, again. You're not obligated morally or legally to submit to unlawful violent threats from others.

The only thing they're the victim of is stupidity, considering they willingly exited an armored vehicle to start wantonly hitting the nearest bystanders with hammers.

[Saiwania]

would you kindly explain what Portland being viable for poaching means?

If Portland for whatever reason, stops being so liberal in terms of politics, it'd be a more ideal time for the right to try to move in, hence the term poaching. Political movements rally to expand or contract from where they're doing well or more poorly in during a given year.

So far as what's so special about being White? What don't you understand about my motivations? I was born White, so I have an interest in White America doing well.

If the US and the world in general- is increasingly becoming less White, I obviously don't want to accept this lying down. I'm going to oppose the change that is happening. It'd make a big difference for example, if the non-White immigration to the US were simply stopped if not impeded to a significant extent. Trump is doing this very well, so I'm quite pleased by his presidency.

[Purgatio]

Again, you're not obliged to stay in the bus or disembark elsewhere just because violent thugs have decided to start pelting you and your vehicle with rocks.

News flash: you're also not obligated to disembark from an armored vehicle to start savagely hitting the nearest bystanders with hammers because some people in a completely different location are hitting your armored vehicle with rocks.

You're blaming the victim here, again. You're not obligated morally or legally to submit to unlawful violent threats from others.

The only thing they're the victim of is stupidity, considering they willingly exited an armored vehicle to start wantonly hitting the nearest bystanders with hammers.

If you exit the bus knowing ANTIFA thugs that are already throwing rocks at the bus will start throwing rocks at you, you are entitled to act in self-defense with whatever weapons you have, like your hammers. Unfortunately, because the crowd is mixed with both types of people, there is collateral damage, and maybe with the benefit of hindsight they should have disembarked elsewhere but you can't blame the victim of violence for not acting 100% rationally in the heat of the moment. You blame the attacker, not the victim. Why are you so obsessed with micromanaging the victim's response and not condemning the violent attackers who started the whole mess. The violent attackers are ultimately responsible for the collateral damage that ensued when the busgoers had to act in self-defense.

[Takso]

would you kindly explain what Portland being viable for poaching means?

If Portland for whatever reason, stops being so liberal in terms of politics, it'd be a more ideal time for the right to try to move in, hence the term poaching. Political movements rally to expand or contract from where they're doing well or more poorly in during a given year.

So far as what's so special about being White? What don't you understand about my motivations? I was born White, so I have an interest in White America doing well.

If the US and the world in general- is increasingly becoming less White, I obviously don't want to accept this lying down. I'm going to oppose the change that is happening. It'd make a big difference for example, if the non-White immigration to the US were simply stopped if not impeded to a significant extent. Trump is doing this very well, so I'm quite pleased by his presidency.

Yawn. Racial tribalism was so last century.

[New haven america]

would you kindly explain what Portland being viable for poaching means?

If Portland for whatever reason, stops being so liberal in terms of politics, it'd be a more ideal time for the right to try to move in, hence the term poaching. Political movements rally to expand or contract from where they're doing well or more poorly in during a given year.

So far as what's so special about being White? What don't you understand about my motivations? I was born White, so I have an interest in White America doing well.

If the US and the world in general- is increasingly becoming less White, I obviously don't want to accept this lying down. I'm going to oppose the change that is happening. It'd make a big difference for example, if the non-White immigration to the US were simply stopped if not impeded to a significant extent. Trump is doing this very well, so I'm quite pleased by his presidency.

Actually, you were born Italian, which for the majority of US history has not been considered White, and as a group they still have a lot of stereotypes and assumptions surrounding them.

[Necroghastia]

Hasn't Purgatio said fighting words is valid justification for violence? Why does he keep raising a fuss about the white supremacist bus being rock'd?

What does one have to do with the other?

... You joking?

If fighting words are valid justification for violence, then you should have no reason for crying about the poor innocent white supremacists, because fighting words.

[Torrocca]

News flash: you're also not obligated to disembark from an armored vehicle to start savagely hitting the nearest bystanders with hammers because some people in a completely different location are hitting your armored vehicle with rocks.



The only thing they're the victim of is stupidity, considering they willingly exited an armored vehicle to start wantonly hitting the nearest bystanders with hammers.

If you exit the bus knowing ANTIFA thugs that are already throwing rocks at the bus will start throwing rocks at you, you are entitled to act in self-defense with whatever weapons you have, like your hammers.

I'm gonna make this incredibly easy for you, since you're obviously not grasping the situation here and also because you ignored Iffy's earlier post: if you came up to me and started shouting mean words at me, I don't magically have the license to turn your face into the inside of a watermelon with a hammer because somebody thirty feet behind you threw a stone at me.

Unfortunately, because the crowd is mixed with both types of people, there is collateral damage, and maybe with the benefit of hindsight they should have disembarked elsewhere but you can't blame the victim of violence for not acting 100% rationally in the heat of the moment. You blame the attacker, not the victim. Why are you so obsessed with micromanaging the victim's response and not condemning the violent attackers who started the whole mess. The violent attackers are ultimately responsible for the collateral damage that ensued when the busgoers had to act in self-defense.

It's almost like the Fascists didn't have any good reason to storm from their bus and attack the people who weren't throwing rocks at their bus, or something.

[Scomagia]

The legitimization of political violence on both sides is a disturbing trend.

Indeed, although I strongly suspect it is not nearly as common as people would presume.

[Purgatio]

What does one have to do with the other?

... You joking?

If fighting words are valid justification for violence, then you should have no reason for crying about the poor innocent white supremacists, because fighting words.

What fighting words? Having a different opinion from you is not fighting words.

[Purgatio]

If you exit the bus knowing ANTIFA thugs that are already throwing rocks at the bus will start throwing rocks at you, you are entitled to act in self-defense with whatever weapons you have, like your hammers.

I'm gonna make this incredibly easy for you, since you're obviously not grasping the situation here and also because you ignored Iffy's earlier post: if you came up to me and started shouting mean words at me, I don't magically have the license to turn your face into the inside of a watermelon with a hammer because somebody thirty feet behind you threw a stone at me.

Unfortunately, because the crowd is mixed with both types of people, there is collateral damage, and maybe with the benefit of hindsight they should have disembarked elsewhere but you can't blame the victim of violence for not acting 100% rationally in the heat of the moment. You blame the attacker, not the victim. Why are you so obsessed with micromanaging the victim's response and not condemning the violent attackers who started the whole mess. The violent attackers are ultimately responsible for the collateral damage that ensued when the busgoers had to act in self-defense.

It's almost like the Fascists didn't have any good reason to storm from their bus and attack the people who weren't throwing rocks at their bus, or something.

If a whole crowd of people behind me were lobbing rocks in your direction, unprovoked, and you swung your hammer in self-defense to block them and hit me by accident, that's legitimate self-defense.

[Necroghastia]

... You joking?

If fighting words are valid justification for violence, then you should have no reason for crying about the poor innocent white supremacists, because fighting words.

What fighting words? Having a different opinion from you is not fighting words.

When that "opinion" (and please, let's not pretend that's what that is) is white supremacism yeah it is.

[Saiwania]

Actually, you were born Italian, which for the majority of US history has not been considered White, and as a group they still have a lot of stereotypes and assumptions surrounding them.

I'm certainly no Italian, I have a Welsh last name. Although, my family probably isn't really from Wales. Which European ethnicities are most likely to be brunette?

I'd agree that people who take the more violent route can be blamed if their action caused things to get more out of control than it otherwise would've.