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Antifa

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Torrocca
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Posts: 26197
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:12 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Nah, it's usually easy to tell when people genuinely hate both sides, because they normally say they're still against Fascism - which, y'know, I'm generally okay with even if I disagree with it. It's the ones who merely play up the "both sides" angle without that that are of concern.


How is saying "both sides" any more "crypto-fascist" (that's basically what you're saying) than explicitly stating their opposed to fascists? They're still implying that they hold views at odds with things "both sides" commit or support.


The former's just uncritical demonization of both sides without any exploration into the context of why those sides exist or why they do what they do, whereas the latter is at least showing that they understand the finer nuances between AntiFA and Fascism, even if they have staunch disagreements with the methodology of various AntiFA movements.

Scomagia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
You have my sincerest apology that I can't come up with a poll that features concrete numbers on the number of people who feign a hatred of both sides in support of Fascism.

Indeed, I know that you're just talking shit that you can't back up.

Also, you cast a much, much wider net than just those "feigning" hatred of both sides. "Unwitting" and "otherwise support", I seem to recall. Positively Marxist levels of paranoia, there, and no evidence, to boot. Tsk, tsk.


I've really got no reason to talk shit, chief. I've seen it happen before, and if you're so certain to call me a liar over it, I'll gladly go hunting down some examples.
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Scomagia
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Posts: 18703
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Scomagia » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:15 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
How is saying "both sides" any more "crypto-fascist" (that's basically what you're saying) than explicitly stating their opposed to fascists? They're still implying that they hold views at odds with things "both sides" commit or support.


The former's just uncritical demonization of both sides without any exploration into the context of why those sides exist or why they do what they do, whereas the latter is at least showing that they understand the finer nuances between AntiFA and Fascism, even if they have staunch disagreements with the methodology of various AntiFA movements.

Scomagia wrote:Indeed, I know that you're just talking shit that you can't back up.

Also, you cast a much, much wider net than just those "feigning" hatred of both sides. "Unwitting" and "otherwise support", I seem to recall. Positively Marxist levels of paranoia, there, and no evidence, to boot. Tsk, tsk.


I've really got no reason to talk shit, chief. I've seen it happen before, and if you're so certain to call me a liar over it, I'll gladly go hunting down some examples.

You have every reason to talk shit, son. You obviously take this shit way too seriously. That tends to lead to an increase of bullshitting.

But I will humor you: show me examples of people who claim to hate both sides that are "unwittingly" supporting fascism.

*Edit: I'm not sure how sensitive you are but my calling you "son" was not intended as misgendering. I didn't notice your signature until after.
Last edited by Scomagia on Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Takso
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Posts: 189
Founded: Aug 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Takso » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:16 pm

"They engage in varied protest tactics, which include digital activism, property damage, physical violence, and harassment against those whom they identify as fascist, racist, or on the far-right." from the article on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa

That particular quote references:
https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech ... ta-mining/
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgroun ... the-antifa
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/us/what-i ... index.html
https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/0 ... e/22067671
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40930831
https://www.npr.org/2017/06/16/53325561 ... nce-rising

"Antifa are not new. They're a latter-day version of the anarchists and "black bloc" groups who, over the years, have often challenged police and broken windows during May Day protests in Seattle and Portland. Their membership is hard to track, but it appears to be expanding beyond the West Coast. They are also embracing other leftist causes beyond just fighting white supremacists.

Still, their numbers are tiny in relation to the mainstream political left. And, say experts, it's misleading for right-wing groups to suggest that the Antifa are more violent than right-wing extremists." - From the article published by the NPR

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Kassaran
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Posts: 10068
Founded: Jun 16, 2013
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kassaran » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:24 pm

Antifa organizations are in my opinion, about as helpful as any activist group that advocates for violence in debate. If you resolve to violence to win an argument, you only drive a deeper wedge between the opposing sides. It is okay to oppose fascism with your words and peaceful demonstrations. It is not okay to oppose fascism with provocation and violence in a society where there are no fascists openly in power and cannot subject others to their flawed political ideology. In the end, better to simply lump them in with the ethno-nationalists, the Marxists, and Green Peace for the damage they do to wider society in their attempts to rule it.
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Estanglia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:39 am

Huanguo wrote:Association with Antifa is a terrorist act and should not be tolerated


Define Antifa. Define how one can associate with it.

Purgatio wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Please pick one.


No, because they don't contradict. ANTIFA is a dangerous terrorist group that seeks to inflict violence on their political opponents, and every member of this hate group deserves to be locked up for domestic terrorism.


Define how one can be a member of Antifa.

Purgatio wrote:
USS Monitor wrote:Honestly, I'm sick of hearing about Antifa. Sometimes they get a little too militant, or they have a couple douches in the group, but it's way overhyped by fearmongers on the right.


Fearmongering implies exaggeration, but there's no exaggeration here, ANTIFA is one of the most insidious, sinister, sneaky, confrontational, aggressive and dangerous organisations to have ever existed in modern American history, they are ruthless, sociopathic, their members are antisocial and have no empathy, they have no qualms about wrecking mass chaos and havoc, preying on the innocent, taking advantage of the weak, ganging up on the unarmed and the vulnerable, they attack like wolf packs in the night, without warning, without an opportunity to defend yourself.

No one is safe, no one is secure, no child, no family, when a Black Bloc of roaming anarchists and lawless gangsters and hooligans, regarding themselves as above the law, take up arms and hurt, maim, injure innocent people and wreck property, without anyone to put an end to their brutality and their criminality. Their attacks have only escalated, from beating up a journalist, firebombing ICE facilities, attacking Trump supporters or a Bernie voter in Portland, throwing Molotov cocktails in Berkeley, and it won't stop, it won't end, until someone has the courage in Washington DC to lay down the law, once and for all, on these violent hoodlums, these sociopathic thugs and gangsters terrorising innocent Americans and seeking to destroy American society from within, gnashing at their teeth to punch and kick and hurt innocent people who are too weak to defend themselves.

Truly, ANTIFA is one of the most dangerous threats to have ever faced the American people, and urgent action needs to be taken by the federal government or their suffering and criminality will continue to be inflicted on more and more people, helpless to protect themselves.


You say that there's no exaggeration, then proceed to exaggerate Antifa.

If you genuinely think that a bunch of hooligans who go around beating things and people up is the most dangerous organisation modern American history then I wonder what happened to all the literal terror groups.

Purgatio wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm not saying that you invented the word "antifa". I'm saying that you weirdly insist on using all caps to refer to all people doin' an antifa, something anti-fascists themselves do not do. I don't dispute that some groups to include the word "antifa" in their names to get across how they do an antifa. But look at your example. "Antifa International". Not "ANTIFA International". And incidentally, @antifaintl is not a verified account.


I just said I'm a little worried.


A sentence of life without parole for the entirely legal crime of associating with people of a given political persuasion who may or may not themselves have broken some law or laws is mass incarceration of your political opponents.


If I want to capitalise something I'll capitalise it, I don't see what the big deal is, Antifa just looks weird to me compared to ANTIFA so its an aesthetic preference. Regardless, it makes no difference to my underlying point, it's more semantic nitpicking.

More importantly, I want ANTIFA members jailed not because they are 'peacefully associating' with others but because ANTIFA is a violent terrorist organisation willing to attack and main and hospitalise people simply because they are of a different political persuasion to them, in the same way as I would want to prosecute and jail members of other political terrorist organisations. That's not suppression of dissent, peaceful and non-terrorist dissent should not be penalised.


No matter how many times you say it, Antifa is not an organisation.
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Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

Reploid Productions wrote:Two pages in... and everybody is pretty much agreeing that "This is fucking stupid!"? Dear gods, NSG agreeing on something?! I SPOTTED A UNICORN!!

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Estanglia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:39 am

Purgatio wrote:It's a semantic point,


It's not.

See, if Antifa is not an actual organisation, then banning Antifa is loosely defined. After all, you don't have the solid criteria of membership.

Is it antifascism? Then you're banning an ideology.
Is it violent antifascism? Then what about non-violent antifascist groups that call themselves Antifa?
Is it groups that call themselves Antifa? Then what about antifascist groups that don't call themselves Antifa?

because there are local chapters,


Which form Antifa, sure, but they aren't Antifa itself.

there are people who attend rallies self-describing as an ANTIFA Black Bloc,


Which doesn't make it an organisation.

there's an Antifa International official Twitter page and other Antifa pages on social media,


Do they claim to speak for the organisation Antifa, or are sanctioned by the organisation Antifa?

and slogans and chants of Antifa attendees at political events.


Sounds more like a movement than an organisation to me.

Again, this is a semantic distraction from the key point that ANTIFA members are terrorists who inflict targeted violence on their political opponents.


It isn't because you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an actual organisation.
Last edited by Estanglia on Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, the UN, the EU
Meh:
Nah: discrimination, justifying discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit

Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -0.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.9

8 Values.


Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

Reploid Productions wrote:Two pages in... and everybody is pretty much agreeing that "This is fucking stupid!"? Dear gods, NSG agreeing on something?! I SPOTTED A UNICORN!!

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Ifreann
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Posts: 134302
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ifreann » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:43 am

Scomagia wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
You have my sincerest apology that I can't come up with a poll that features concrete numbers on the number of people who feign a hatred of both sides in support of Fascism.

Indeed, I know that you're just talking shit that you can't back up.

Also, you cast a much, much wider net than just those "feigning" hatred of both sides. "Unwitting" and "otherwise support", I seem to recall. Positively Marxist levels of paranoia, there, and no evidence, to boot. Tsk, tsk.

Marx: Famously paranoid, apparently?
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Phoenicaea
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Founded: May 24, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Phoenicaea » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:47 am

i despise people with these inner dispositions, deeply and in my bowels.
besides, i share solidarity with them politically, and whatever else, against putrid society.
Last edited by Phoenicaea on Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Munkcestrian Republic
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Founded: May 01, 2019
Corporate Bordello

Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:57 am

Phoenicaea wrote:in my bowels.

:lol2:
Last edited by Munkcestrian Republic on Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aclion
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Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aclion » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:58 am

Estanglia wrote:It isn't because you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an actual organisation.

Fortunately being an organisation is not a requirement to be a terrorist. This same argument was used to deflect criticism of Al Qaeda.
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Munkcestrian Republic
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Munkcestrian Republic » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:59 am

Aclion wrote:
Estanglia wrote:It isn't because you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an actual organisation.

Fortunately Organisation is not a requirement to be a terrorist. This same argument was used to deflect criticism of Al Qaeda.

Antifa isn't Al-Qaeda.
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Estanglia
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Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:01 am

Aclion wrote:
Estanglia wrote:It isn't because you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an actual organisation.

Fortunately Organisation is not a requirement to be a terrorist. This same argument was used to deflect criticism of Al Qaeda.


Sure, but the argument was
ANTIFA members are terrorists


Which would require there to be something that you can be a member of, namely an organisation (from his other posts).

My point was that you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an organisation.
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, the UN, the EU
Meh:
Nah: discrimination, justifying discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit

Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -0.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.9

8 Values.


Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

Reploid Productions wrote:Two pages in... and everybody is pretty much agreeing that "This is fucking stupid!"? Dear gods, NSG agreeing on something?! I SPOTTED A UNICORN!!

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Aclion
Senator
 
Posts: 4629
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aclion » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:02 am

Munkcestrian Republic wrote:
Aclion wrote:Fortunately Organisation is not a requirement to be a terrorist. This same argument was used to deflect criticism of Al Qaeda.

Antifa isn't Al-Qaeda.

Oh shit, Scotland Yard must be missing you, Mr. Holmes.

Estanglia wrote:
Aclion wrote:Fortunately Organisation is not a requirement to be a terrorist. This same argument was used to deflect criticism of Al Qaeda.


Sure, but the argument was
ANTIFA members are terrorists


Which would require there to be something that you can be a member of, namely an organisation (from his other posts).

My point was that you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an organisation.

You can however be a member of a group or even movement.
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Phoenicaea
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Phoenicaea » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:35 am

ANTIFA members are terrorists


ah, so they are right. terror against foes of the republic.
unfortunately, them who can t give value to human word, can t be dealed with.
Last edited by Phoenicaea on Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Kaedijork
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Founded: Aug 04, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kaedijork » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:04 am

Purgatio wrote:It's a semantic point, because there are local chapters, there are people who attend rallies self-describing as an ANTIFA Black Bloc, there's an Antifa International official Twitter page and other Antifa pages on social media, and slogans and chants of Antifa attendees at political events. Again, this is a semantic distraction from the key point that ANTIFA members are terrorists who inflict targeted violence on their political opponents.


There's also a Capitalist International official twitter page. That doesn't make capitalism an organisation. Theres plenty of capitalist pages on social media, and theres plenty of capitalist slogans and chants - eg; there is no alternative, better dead than red, etc. Capitalism is not an organisation. Antifa is not an organisation. You cannot be a member of antifa. It is not a semantic point. It destroys your entire argument.
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Kaedijork
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Founded: Aug 04, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Kaedijork » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:13 am

Aclion wrote:You can however be a member of a group or even movement.


Perhaps actually read the above post that you lot conveniently gloss over whenever any points are raised that challenge your worldview in that you are fighting for freedom. You know what, here, I'll link it for you:

Estanglia wrote:
Purgatio wrote:It's a semantic point,


It's not.

See, if Antifa is not an actual organisation, then banning Antifa is loosely defined. After all, you don't have the solid criteria of membership.

Is it antifascism? Then you're banning an ideology.
Is it violent antifascism? Then what about non-violent antifascist groups that call themselves Antifa?
Is it groups that call themselves Antifa? Then what about antifascist groups that don't call themselves Antifa?

because there are local chapters,


Which form Antifa, sure, but they aren't Antifa itself.

there are people who attend rallies self-describing as an ANTIFA Black Bloc,


Which doesn't make it an organisation.

there's an Antifa International official Twitter page and other Antifa pages on social media,


Do they claim to speak for the organisation Antifa, or are sanctioned by the organisation Antifa?

and slogans and chants of Antifa attendees at political events.


Sounds more like a movement than an organisation to me.

Again, this is a semantic distraction from the key point that ANTIFA members are terrorists who inflict targeted violence on their political opponents.


It isn't because you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an actual organisation.
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Estanglia
Minister
 
Posts: 2394
Founded: Dec 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Estanglia » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:08 am

Aclion wrote:
Munkcestrian Republic wrote:Antifa isn't Al-Qaeda.

Oh shit, Scotland Yard must be missing you, Mr. Holmes.

Estanglia wrote:
Sure, but the argument was
ANTIFA members are terrorists


Which would require there to be something that you can be a member of, namely an organisation (from his other posts).

My point was that you can't be a member of an organisation if the 'organisation' in question isn't an organisation.

You can however be a member of a group or even movement.


Sure, but Antifa is not a group (unless it's a group of groups, but then you run into the problem of 'what groups make up Antifa?') and, if it's a movement, then you're effectively banning the movement's ideology when you ban the movement (which gets into the 'banning Antifa will be used to suppress dissent' argument) and what is and isn't part of the movement is again loose (is it all antifascists? violent antifascists? groups who call themselves Antifa? etc.).
Yeah: Egalitarianism, equality, the UN, the EU
Meh:
Nah: discrimination, justifying discrimination, authoritarianism, Brexit

Political compass test:
Economic Left/Right: -0.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.9

8 Values.


Torrocca wrote:"Your honor, it was not mein fault! I didn't order the systematic genocide of millions of people, it was the twenty kilograms of pure-cut Bavarian cocaine that did it!"

Reploid Productions wrote:Two pages in... and everybody is pretty much agreeing that "This is fucking stupid!"? Dear gods, NSG agreeing on something?! I SPOTTED A UNICORN!!

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Communist Crimean Republic
Secretary
 
Posts: 27
Founded: Jul 19, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Communist Crimean Republic » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:59 am

Kowani wrote:
Gagium wrote:To what extent does antifascism become unjustified or non-good? When you attack conservatives and people who aren't even fascists (and don't like fascists) for not being against them enough vocally?

I don’t advocate attacking people, but being complicit in fascism removes your “innocent card.”

Hold up.

I don't like talking in Political threads, but this line is killing me.

Just because someone expresses a political ideology you don't like doesn't mean they lose due process and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What needs to happen to extremist ideologies like fascism, socialism, and communism is that they need to be disproven in a fair, open discussion, not make it so that the people who express extremist ideologies lose their rights.

Personally, I hate both extremes. I'm a classic liberal myself, and that's rather tame compared to today's politics. And Taking away people's rights just because they express a political ideology doesn't mean you get to take away their rights. That's one of the biggest reasons why I hate Antifa, they use fascist tactics to beat up people even to just slightly to the right of Stalin.

Image

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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:06 am

Communist Crimean Republic wrote:
Kowani wrote:I don’t advocate attacking people, but being complicit in fascism removes your “innocent card.”

Hold up.

I don't like talking in Political threads, but this line is killing me.

Just because someone expresses a political ideology you don't like doesn't mean they lose due process and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
This has nothing to do with what I was talking about, and as you’ll notice, I explicitly said “don’t attack people.”
What needs to happen to extremist ideologies like fascism, socialism, and communism is that they need to be disproven in a fair, open discussion, not make it so that the people who express extremist ideologies lose their rights.
Because that worked so well before-Why do I hear Deutschland über alles?
Personally, I hate both extremes. I'm a classic liberal myself, and that's rather tame compared to today's politics. And Taking away people's rights just because they express a political ideology doesn't mean you get to take away their rights. That's one of the biggest reasons why I hate Antifa, they use fascist tactics to beat up people even to just slightly to the right of Stalin.
You a) don’t understand Antifa, b) don’t understand political theory as a whole, and c) need to express that second sentence better. Also, rights are bullshit.

None of this is even remotely true.
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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:29 am

Communist Crimean Republic wrote:Just because someone expresses a political ideology you don't like doesn't mean they lose due process and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What needs to happen to extremist ideologies like fascism, socialism, and communism is that they need to be disproven in a fair, open discussion, not make it so that the people who express extremist ideologies lose their rights.


Image


Also, imagine unironically equating Fascism to Socialism and Communism with literally no nuanced understanding of those ideologies being used to even remotely back up that false equivalence.
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I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
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Telconi
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Posts: 28614
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:38 am

Torrocca wrote:
Communist Crimean Republic wrote:Just because someone expresses a political ideology you don't like doesn't mean they lose due process and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What needs to happen to extremist ideologies like fascism, socialism, and communism is that they need to be disproven in a fair, open discussion, not make it so that the people who express extremist ideologies lose their rights.


Image


Also, imagine unironically equating Fascism to Socialism and Communism with literally no nuanced understanding of those ideologies being used to even remotely back up that false equivalence.


What makes it false?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 134302
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ifreann » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:43 am

Torrocca wrote:
Communist Crimean Republic wrote:Just because someone expresses a political ideology you don't like doesn't mean they lose due process and the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. What needs to happen to extremist ideologies like fascism, socialism, and communism is that they need to be disproven in a fair, open discussion, not make it so that the people who express extremist ideologies lose their rights.


Image


Also, imagine unironically equating Fascism to Socialism and Communism with literally no nuanced understanding of those ideologies being used to even remotely back up that false equivalence.

I'm sure that once the fascists learn that they have been defeated in the free marketplace of ideas they'll all disperse.


Telconi wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Image


Also, imagine unironically equating Fascism to Socialism and Communism with literally no nuanced understanding of those ideologies being used to even remotely back up that false equivalence.


What makes it false?

Everything.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
He/Him

Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
the riot
starts

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26197
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:44 am

Telconi wrote:
Torrocca wrote:


Also, imagine unironically equating Fascism to Socialism and Communism with literally no nuanced understanding of those ideologies being used to even remotely back up that false equivalence.


What makes it false?


Hmm, who's exactly to say what makes any unnuanced equivalencies between Fascism and Socialism and Communism false, besides the fact that they're three completely different things, the latter two of which are primarily concerned with economics and the former one of which is an authoritarian political ideology? As we all know, all three of these things actually call for the social ownership of the means of production in a stateless, classless, moneyless one-party ethnostate, which totally means they're all three perfectly equivalent.

The world really may never know why unnuanced equivalences between these three things are false equivalences.
Last edited by Torrocca on Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

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Grosscobra Reich
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 21
Founded: Dec 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Grosscobra Reich » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:45 am

Death to Antifa! Long Live National Socialism! Hail Cobra!
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer, Ein Cobra! SIEG HEIL!!! Treue oder Tod...

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Greater vakolicci haven
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14391
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:47 am

Torrocca wrote:
Telconi wrote:
What makes it false?


Hmm, who's exactly to say what makes any unnuanced equivalencies between Fascism and Socialism and Communism false, besides the fact that they're three completely different things, the latter two of which are primarily concerned with economics and the former one of which is an authoritarian political ideology? As we all know, all three of these things actually call for the social ownership of the means of production in a stateless, classless, moneyless one-party ethnostate, which totally means they're all three perfectly equivalent.

The world really may never know why unnuanced equivalences between these three things are false equivalences.

Socialism I agree with, but democratic communism doesn't exactly have the greatest success rate.

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