LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

What is everyone's thoughts on Euro-Communism, and has any leftist here been called a liberal by Marxist-Leninist and a Tankie by libertarian socialist?

I have been called a tankie dozens of times.

You ARE a tankie.

[Duvniask]

Why left-unity is a terrible idea.

This video makes me like the tankie more.

[Mandicoria]

Tempted to download a pdf of The Conquest of Bread. Dunno, kinda feelin a little quirky. Also bouta join the SRA or some shit if I get the time.

Also I wanna have a body pillow that I tape a photo of Nestor Makhno's face on it.

[The New California Republic]

A semi-regular got purged, I think. I can't tell you why they were purged, though. It's a riddle for the ages.

Because he was accused of being a rapist and it ended up being true.

Yeah I didn't even notice he was gone.

[Ostroeuropa]

Alt-history speculation;

In the wake of the English Civil War, Instead of sticking to his views, Ireton falls in line with the radical factions demands he adhere to their line on the issue of private property. As a consequence, the radical faction rallies around its figurehead instead of being disunited in the absence of a leader "Pure" enough for them. (Ireton agreed with all of their policies, except the abolition of private property.).

This drastically alters the balance of power in the months following the civil war. Cromwell is no longer able to present himself as a compromise candidate between the moderates and radicals to unite the factions in the absence of leadership of either. Fairfax assumes control of the moderates and stops pretending to be a compromise candidate to prevent a radical takeover. (The moderates lacking their own figurehead may have made the radicals more obstinant and less eager to rally around a figure. Seeing their opposition also had no leader kept them trying to flip Ireton instead of accepting him as is. In the end, the lack of suitable leaders for "Either faction" (Fairfax could have led the moderates, but was pretending to be more radical than he was.), led to the radicals accepting Cromwell so in exchange for putting the king on trial, abolition of the monarchy, and religious freedom for all except catholics, as well as some other demands.).

Perhaps following a brief third civil war as the moderates freak out and are crushed by the radical army members (Who greatly outnumbered the moderates except in the officership, hence the importance of Ireton joining them to lead them), the radicals seize total control of the three kingdoms and impose their agenda under Lord-President Ireton. (Cromwell as a unity candidate was pretty much the only thing preventing the complete purge of moderates from power in general, as prides' purge of the house of commons IRL demonstrates, in the end only the Army moderates stuck around as Parliamentary moderates were purged. As a consequence, Cromwells opposition to universal suffrage and abolition of private property don't restrain the revolution.).

The commonwealth of England becomes a communistic military republic, with private property banned, collective ownership of land and harvests, worker-ownership of businesses in cities, conscription, "Religious freedom" except with anti-clericalism to the extent of violent persecution of anyone who would claim a position of religious hierarchy or indeed any "Heretics" who claim such a hierarchy exists at all (With all the problems this will cause regarding catholics), universal suffrage, abolition of the aristocracy, etc.

How does this turn out for the country and the world?

[Trotskylvania]

Get 50%+1 of the population there on your side and I'm all for it.

And then just screw the 49% right?

I mean, that's literally what class society is all about: one group of people repressing and exploiting the labor of another. It's pretty rich to get angry that half-plus-one might alter the destiny of the other half of society

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Why left-unity is a terrible idea.

This video makes me like the tankie more.

Why though?

[Forsher]

Okay lefties, help me out... how PC is it to say something like, "I can't believe there were negroes living in Franklin in the 1900s"? For context, this person regularly refers to Ming-Na Wen as Chinagirl so they're already non-PC regardless of the answer.

[Albrenia]

Okay lefties, help me out... how PC is it to say something like, "I can't believe there were negroes living in Franklin in the 1900s"? For context, this person regularly refers to Ming-Na Wen as Chinagirl so they're already non-PC regardless of the answer.

Well I'm not exactly the PC culture's spokesperson or anything, but I think the term 'negroes' is generally considered highly un-PC in pretty much all circumstances. Although context is obviously important, so the phrase you gave is far more PC than ranting about hating them and similar.

Hope that helps.

[Ostroeuropa]

Okay lefties, help me out... how PC is it to say something like, "I can't believe there were negroes living in Franklin in the 1900s"? For context, this person regularly refers to Ming-Na Wen as Chinagirl so they're already non-PC regardless of the answer.

I'd give them a pass on "Negroes" dependent on their age. The statement itself is acceptable if a statement of genuine unawareness and presents an opportunity for pointing out that media often leaves out depictions of black people when talking about these periods, effectively erasing them and their contributions from history and giving the impression of a past that never existed.

If they're young enough that "Negroes" isn't a "lol grandma" thing, i'd say the statement takes on a significantly different tone. While i'm not one to give a shit over people saying negroes, niggers and so on, I'll admit they alter the statement they're contained in and cast it in a different light.

It's difficult to take it as a statement of genuine unawareness when they're basically baiting people with that term being there given that they are aware of that, but acting unaware.

[North German Realm]

Okay lefties, help me out... how PC is it to say something like, "I can't believe there were negroes living in Franklin in the 1900s"? For context, this person regularly refers to Ming-Na Wen as Chinagirl so they're already non-PC regardless of the answer.

I mean, it really depends on the person saying it, doesn't it? As a rule of thumb, it's probably Politically Incorrect though.

[Baltenstein]

What is everyone's thoughts on Euro-Communism, and has any leftist here been called a liberal by Marxist-Leninist and a Tankie by libertarian socialist?

Formerly, I was called leftist by conservatives and called conservative by leftists. Nowadays, I mostly just get called a "lib" or occasionally an "ancap." But the only time I was ever called a tankie was by a liberal when I half-jestingly praised Trotsky.

Praising Trotsky and being labeled a Tankie.

Someone got his labels mixed up.

[Baltenstein]

What is everyone's thoughts on Euro-Communism, and has any leftist here been called a liberal by Marxist-Leninist and a Tankie by libertarian socialist?

I have been called a tankie dozens of times.

Aren't you a KKE (aka, the Holy Church of Greek Tankieism) supporter?

[United Muscovite Nations]

I have been called a tankie dozens of times.

Aren't you a KKE (aka, the Holy Church of Greek Tankieism) supporter?

Yes, he is.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Hot take

Freedom doesn't exist while state's can effectively rule. So long as a government can change or do anything that it want's ( which practically all of them can ), than what we call freedom's are actually only just privileges.

My problem is with the capitalist state, not the state per se. IMO, the state can be used by the Proletariat as a mechanism for establishing communism.

[The Multiversal Communist Collective]

Why left-unity is a terrible idea.

IMO, left unity needs to be established on a libertarian, not an authoritarian, basis.

[Duvniask]

This video makes me like the tankie more.

Why though?

Because the anarchist is whiny and naive. Also, the tankie is presented as actually being concerned with what comes next, tilling the fields, putting things together.

(not that this is in any way true of reality whatsoever, because tankies are incapable of succeeding in their endeavors to bring about socialism)

[Page]

What is everyone's thoughts on Euro-Communism, and has any leftist here been called a liberal by Marxist-Leninist and a Tankie by libertarian socialist?

Mostly, I just get called a Russian troll or Putin shill by liberals.

But among leftists, I distinguish myself firmly as being on the libertarian left. There is no mistaking me for a tankie.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm mad about the old Dumbo and the crows being removed from the new one again. It's dumb that people called the crows racist and shows they didn't watch the movie properly.

For one thing it was released during the era of Jim Crow and is actually pretty subversive. The characters who labor in the film are black people and it's for the entertainment of white people. This is never mentioned, but it's there in the background.

Dumbo is kidnapped from his homeland, sold into slavery, whipped, beaten, and mocked for his appearance by others. After this eases up a bit he is still rigidly controlled and told where he can and cannot go and still openly disrespected. (Do you get it?! This is subtle, but it's fucking there my dudes). This is pretty much the state of his existence until he meets the crows, who initially do more of the same until Dumbo snaps and explains what has happened to him. The crows who are stand ins for black people are immediately sympathetic and apologize, showing him solidarity and sharing some of their own stories. They're the first characters to be nice to him and give him some encouragement. It's the Crows who give Dumbo one of their feathers (Which is made a white feather in the new movie because we can't let people think about the crows) to give him the courage to fly.

And it's racist because... they have accents? They sing a song? It's like that shit where zipedee doo dah is somehow racist because it shows a black man being cheerful in the south, and obviously they were never cheerful. Slaves are notoriously dour and serious folk who don't do things like singing and trying to have a good time.

Maybe it's because they're coded to be black people. You know. So the audience gets it. Apparently that's racism now. What they should have done was give them an upper class british accent instead, that wouldn't be weird and drastically alter the message at all.

Imo it just shows that the idpol stuff is boderline pathological in its need to find racism and sexism where it simply doesn't exist.
And now we don't have a modern 'Never seen an elephant fly', and I loved that song.

[Byzconia]

Hot take

Freedom doesn't exist while state's can effectively rule. So long as a government can change or do anything that it want's ( which practically all of them can ), than what we call freedom's are actually only just privileges.

My problem is with the capitalist state, not the state per se. IMO, the state can be used by the Proletariat as a mechanism for establishing communism.

Given the historical examples, this doesn't seem likely.

[Ostroeuropa]

What is 2+2?

"I have to say a lot of people have been asking this question. No, really. A lot of people come up to me and they ask me. They say, 'What's 2+2?' And I tell them look, we know what 2+2 is. We've had almost eight years of the worst kind of math you can imagine. Oh my god, I can't believe it. Addition and subtraction of the 1s the 2s and the 3s. Its terrible. Just terrible, believe me. Look, if you want to know what 2+2 is, do you want to know what 2+2 is? I'll tell you. First of all the number 2, by the way I love the number 2. It's probably my favorite number, no it is my favorite number. You know what, it's probably more like the number two but with a lot of zeros behind it. A lot. If I'm being honest, I mean, if I'm being honest. I like a lot of zeros. Except for Marco Rubio, now he's a zero that I don't like. Though, I probably shouldn't say that. He's a nice guy but he's like, all ones and zeroes, on and on, like that. He's like a computer! You know what I mean? He's like a computer. I don't know. I mean, you know. So, we have all these numbers and we can add them and subtract them and add them. TIMES them even. Did you know that? We can times them OR divide them, they don't tell you that, and I'll tell you, no one is better at the math than me. You wouldn't believe it. That I can tell you. So, we're gonna be the best on 2+2, believe me. OK? Alright. Thank you."

[Dumb Ideologies]

What is 2+2?

"I have to say a lot of people have been asking this question. No, really. A lot of people come up to me and they ask me. They say, 'What's 2+2?' And I tell them look, we know what 2+2 is. We've had almost eight years of the worst kind of math you can imagine. Oh my god, I can't believe it. Addition and subtraction of the 1s the 2s and the 3s. Its terrible. Just terrible, believe me. Look, if you want to know what 2+2 is, do you want to know what 2+2 is? I'll tell you. First of all the number 2, by the way I love the number 2. It's probably my favorite number, no it is my favorite number. You know what, it's probably more like the number two but with a lot of zeros behind it. A lot. If I'm being honest, I mean, if I'm being honest. I like a lot of zeros. Except for Marco Rubio, now he's a zero that I don't like. Though, I probably shouldn't say that. He's a nice guy but he's like, all ones and zeroes, on and on, like that. He's like a computer! You know what I mean? He's like a computer. I don't know. I mean, you know. So, we have all these numbers and we can add them and subtract them and add them. TIMES them even. Did you know that? We can times them OR divide them, they don't tell you that, and I'll tell you, no one is better at the math than me. You wouldn't believe it. That I can tell you. So, we're gonna be the best on 2+2, believe me. OK? Alright. Thank you."

Go to bed Ostro.

Yours,
A hypocrite

[Cappuccina]

My problem is with the capitalist state, not the state per se. IMO, the state can be used by the Proletariat as a mechanism for establishing communism.

Given the historical examples, this doesn't seem likely.

It won't work, and nor will communism.

[Cekoviu]

What is 2+2?

"I have to say a lot of people have been asking this question. No, really. A lot of people come up to me and they ask me. They say, 'What's 2+2?' And I tell them look, we know what 2+2 is. We've had almost eight years of the worst kind of math you can imagine. Oh my god, I can't believe it. Addition and subtraction of the 1s the 2s and the 3s. Its terrible. Just terrible, believe me. Look, if you want to know what 2+2 is, do you want to know what 2+2 is? I'll tell you. First of all the number 2, by the way I love the number 2. It's probably my favorite number, no it is my favorite number. You know what, it's probably more like the number two but with a lot of zeros behind it. A lot. If I'm being honest, I mean, if I'm being honest. I like a lot of zeros. Except for Marco Rubio, now he's a zero that I don't like. Though, I probably shouldn't say that. He's a nice guy but he's like, all ones and zeroes, on and on, like that. He's like a computer! You know what I mean? He's like a computer. I don't know. I mean, you know. So, we have all these numbers and we can add them and subtract them and add them. TIMES them even. Did you know that? We can times them OR divide them, they don't tell you that, and I'll tell you, no one is better at the math than me. You wouldn't believe it. That I can tell you. So, we're gonna be the best on 2+2, believe me. OK? Alright. Thank you."

Go to bed Ostro.

Yours,
A hypocrite

Isn't it like 5:00 in the morning on your side of the swamp? A bit too late for that, I'd say.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Why left-unity is a terrible idea.

IMO, left unity needs to be established on a libertarian, not an authoritarian, basis.

Therein lies the problem. Both authoritarian leftists and libertarian leftists only want left-unity on their terms.