NationStates

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:15 am**

Proctopeo wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
I don't mean wearing the actual title of fascism as a badge of honor, more like being called one by some ignorant lefty. It's one thing to be against fascism, it's another to call anyone you don't agree with a fascist.

I've seen people get called fascist for supporting the freedom of speech. Some people really do not know what fascism is.

LIbErTaRiAn To FaSh PiPeLiNe

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:24 am**

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:I've seen people get called fascist for supporting the freedom of speech. Some people really do not know what fascism is.

LIbErTaRiAn To FaSh PiPeLiNe

It's such an absurd concept.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:41 am**

Proctopeo wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
LIbErTaRiAn To FaSh PiPeLiNe

It's such an absurd concept.

Because people like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, and Donald Trump don't exist...

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:45 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:It's such an absurd concept.

Because people like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, and Donald Trump don't exist...

I mean, neither is libertarian by any meaning of the word.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:47 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:It's such an absurd concept.

Because people like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, and Donald Trump don't exist...

They exist, sure, but they don't have anything to do with the so-called pipeline.

North German Realm wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Because people like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, and Donald Trump don't exist...

I mean, neither is libertarian by any meaning of the word.

Yeah; none of the three were or are libertarians, any type, and neither Jones nor Trump are fascist. Savage maybe, but I don't think he's close enough.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:51 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:It's such an absurd concept.

Because people like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, and Donald Trump don't exist...

Neither of which have anything to do with the libertarian to fascist pipeline.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:51 am**

Proctopeo wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Because people like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, and Donald Trump don't exist...

They exist, sure, but they don't have anything to do with the so-called pipeline.

North German Realm wrote:I mean, neither is libertarian by any meaning of the word.

Yeah; none of the three were or are libertarians, any type, and neither Jones nor Trump are fascist. Savage maybe, but I don't think he's close enough.

Hey, I don't know if you've been watching the news, but I have some bad news about Trump...

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:52 am**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Because people like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, and Donald Trump don't exist...

Neither of which have anything to do with the libertarian to fascist pipeline.

Have you ever heard their shows?!

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:52 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Neither of which have anything to do with the libertarian to fascist pipeline.

Have you ever heard their shows?!

Yes, have you?

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:54 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:They exist, sure, but they don't have anything to do with the so-called pipeline.

Yeah; none of the three were or are libertarians, any type, and neither Jones nor Trump are fascist. Savage maybe, but I don't think he's close enough.

Hey, I don't know if you've been watching the news, but I have some bad news about Trump...

Bad news for you, you mean?

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:56 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:They exist, sure, but they don't have anything to do with the so-called pipeline.

Yeah; none of the three were or are libertarians, any type, and neither Jones nor Trump are fascist. Savage maybe, but I don't think he's close enough.

Hey, I don't know if you've been watching the news, but I have some bad news about Trump...

''It'S a GoOd tHiNg I DOn't dO ThAt, thEN.''

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:56 am**

Proctopeo wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Hey, I don't know if you've been watching the news, but I have some bad news about Trump...

Bad news for you, you mean?

Because he's a fascist? Yeah, that's bad for me, but it's also just bad for everyone.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:56 am**

Totenborg wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:Bad news for you, you mean?

Because he's a fascist? Yeah, that's bad for me, but it's also just bad for everyone.

Nah, bad news 'cause he's not. Authoritarian, probably, but by no rational means is he a fascist.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:59 am**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Hey, I don't know if you've been watching the news, but I have some bad news about Trump...

''It'S a GoOd tHiNg I DOn't dO ThAt, thEN.''

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
Trump has most of these going on. And he's working on the others. Next question?

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:10 pm**

Totenborg wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
''It'S a GoOd tHiNg I DOn't dO ThAt, thEN.''

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
Trump has 12 of the 14 going on. And he's working on the other two. Next question?

Lmao. You're gonna have to do better than cite madeupbullshit.com. I just love how this link conveniently doesn't list ''forcible suppression of opposition'' or ''strong regimentation of society'' or ''dictatorial powers'' as symptoms, y'know the key things that make a fascist regime fascist. Calling trump fascist is about as dumb as calling Scandinavian countries Socialists.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:12 pm**

Is anything of this manifesto being fascist then?

PS: yes it is. oddly enough... or once used to be

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:13 pm**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Totenborg wrote:https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
Trump has 12 of the 14 going on. And he's working on the other two. Next question?

Lmao. You're gonna have to do better than cite madeupbullshit.com

Neat. So, you're just gonna lean into #11.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:14 pm**

Totenborg wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Lmao. You're gonna have to do better than cite madeupbullshit.com

Neat. So, you're just gonna lean into #11.

Your link has no citations to any actual credible source, it even gets sexism and homophobia mixed in. It's garbage. Also reread my post, I edit it.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:25 pm**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Neat. So, you're just gonna lean into #11.

Your article is crap with no citations to any actual credible source, it even gets sexism and homophobia mixed in. It's garbage. Also reread my post, I edit it.

In that case, you seem to misunderstand what a credible source is. Hint: it's not just guys who agree with you.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:30 pm**

Nakena wrote:Is anything of this manifesto being fascist then?

the Manifesto calls for:

Universal suffrage with a lowered voting age to 18 years, and voting and electoral office eligibility for all age 25 and up;
Proportional representation on a regional basis;
Voting for women (which was then opposed by most other European nations);
Representation at government level of newly created national councils by economic sector;
The abolition of the Italian Senate (at the time, the Senate, as the upper house of parliament, was by process elected by the wealthier citizens, but were in reality direct appointments by the king. It has been described as a sort of extended council of the crown);
The formation of a national council of experts for labor, for industry, for transportation, for the public health, for communications, etc. Selections to be made of professionals or of tradesmen with legislative powers, and elected directly to a general commission with ministerial powers.

In labor and social policy, the Manifesto calls for:

The quick enactment of a law of the state that sanctions an eight-hour workday for all workers;
A minimum wage;
The participation of workers' representatives in the functions of industry commissions;
To show the same confidence in the labor unions (that prove to be technically and morally worthy) as is given to industry executives or public servants;
Reorganization of the railways and the transport sector;
Revision of the draft law on invalidity insurance;
Reduction of the retirement age from 65 to 55.

In military affairs, the Manifesto advocates:

Creation of a short-service national militia with specifically defensive responsibilities;
Armaments factories are to be nationalized;
A peaceful but competitive foreign policy.

In finance, the Manifesto advocates:

A strong progressive tax on capital (envisaging a “partial expropriation” of concentrated wealth);
The seizure of all the possessions of the religious congregations and the abolition of all the bishoprics, which constitute an enormous liability on the Nation and on the privileges of the poor;
Revision of all contracts for military provisions;
The revision of all military contracts and the seizure of 85 percent of the profits therein.

PS: yes it is. oddly enough... or once used to be

Considering fascism prioritizes a cult of action, Mussolini's manifesto is close to valueless as a barometer of what fascism actually is. His actions are what are important. Fascism is often marked by incogruencies between its policies and stated ideals. Additionally, those benefits were only for the in-group.
Maybe you should have also quoted the "Manifesto in Practice Section".

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:34 pm**

Totenborg wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:Your article is crap with no citations to any actual credible source, it even gets sexism and homophobia mixed in. It's garbage. Also reread my post, I edit it.

In that case, you seem to misunderstand what a credible source is. Hint: it's not just guys who agree with you.

Like I said, your source has the definition of fascism wrong. Trump doesn't control the media, if anything the media can't stop bitching about him for 5 fucking minutes. He doesn't jail hurt or summarily executes his political opponents, and he isn't deporting or genociding anyone because of their race. You like every other person who likes to whine about how fascism is taking over the nation have absolutely no clue what actual fascism is. You lose.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:36 pm**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Neat. So, you're just gonna lean into #11.

Your link has no citations to any actual credible source, it even gets sexism and homophobia mixed in. It's garbage. Also reread my post, I edit it.

You do realize that actual fascist regimes were both sexist and homophobic, right? Gay people were even targeted for extermination in the Holocaust.

I should also point your sig quotes a man who was an active supporter of Francisco Franco and the concept of the White Terror. Not that he didn't have good critiques of the USSR, but to jump over to supporting Catholic pseudo-fascism ain't the correct response.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:36 pm**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Totenborg wrote:In that case, you seem to misunderstand what a credible source is. Hint: it's not just guys who agree with you.

Like I said, your source has the definition of fascism wrong. Trump doesn't control the media, if anything the media can't stop bitching about him for 5 fucking minutes. He doesn't jail hurt or summarily executes his political opponents, and he isn't deporting or genociding anyone because of their race. You like every other person who likes to whine about how fascism is taking over the nation have absolutely no clue what actual fascism is. You lose.

Check your reading comprehension. Your failure to understand what you've read does not equal your victory.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:37 pm**

Totenborg wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Like I said, your source has the definition of fascism wrong. Trump doesn't control the media, if anything the media can't stop bitching about him for 5 fucking minutes. He doesn't jail hurt or summarily executes his political opponents, and he isn't deporting or genociding anyone because of their race. You like every other person who likes to whine about how fascism is taking over the nation have absolutely no clue what actual fascism is. You lose.

Check your reading comprehension. Your failure to understand what you've read does not equal your victory.

You should take your own advice.

Posted: **Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:39 pm**

Chernoslavia wrote:
Totenborg wrote:Check your reading comprehension. Your failure to understand what you've read does not equal your victory.

You should take your own advice.

I'm not the one misunderstanding source content here.

NationStates

LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx