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LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Under which leaders (if any) was the Soviet Union socialist?

Lenin (1918-1924)
411
34%
Stalin (1924-1953)
223
19%
Khrushchev (1953-1964)
149
12%
Brezhnev (1964-1982)
125
10%
Gorbachev (1985-1991)
126
10%
Never
167
14%
 
Total votes : 1201

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61244
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:46 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:I mean it goes both ways fam.

I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

Kowani? Hana? Torra? (Yes, Torra has posted in RWDT in the last year.) That’s...at least three.
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61244
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:47 pm

Genivaria wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

I post there all the time.

You’re...not really left-wing?
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

User avatar
The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:51 pm

Italios wrote:

am i bugging or shouldn't you be dead? like seriously how are you still here in 2019


You're dreaming anon

Image

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:17 am

Luminesa wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
I mean, I put it there, like, right as I came out. Then everyone had no problem with it for at least a little bit, then some certain people decided to be ridiculously petty because I got under their skins for being ideologically opposed to them.

I honestly did it out of habit. I don’t have a problem calling you Torra. I think Procto and Nap did it out of habit as well.


You're very lenient.
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7452
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:17 am

Luminesa wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

Kowani? Hana? Torra? (Yes, Torra has posted in RWDT in the last year.) That’s...at least three.

I pop in every once in a while as well
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:19 am

Luminesa wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

Kowani? Hana? Torra? (Yes, Torra has posted in RWDT in the last year.) That’s...at least three.


Kowani, Torra...ok. But tbh, I'd consider Hana to be RWDTer herself.....
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11949
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:20 am

Luminesa wrote:
Genivaria wrote:I post there all the time.

You’re...not really left-wing?

Social democrats are still comrades.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7452
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:22 am

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Luminesa wrote:You’re...not really left-wing?

Social democrats are still comrades.


They're welfare capitalists at best. Useful for being an entryway to deeper leftism, but not much more.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:55 am

Crysuko wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Social democrats are still comrades.


They're welfare capitalists at best. Useful for being an entryway to deeper leftism, but not much more.


More like a detraction from deeper (economic) leftism.
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:57 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:I mean it goes both ways fam.

I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

…I’m almost insulted.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:00 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Crysuko wrote:
They're welfare capitalists at best. Useful for being an entryway to deeper leftism, but not much more.


More like a detraction from deeper (economic) leftism.

Yes, how dare we improve people’s lives.
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:04 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Crysuko wrote:
They're welfare capitalists at best. Useful for being an entryway to deeper leftism, but not much more.


More like a detraction from deeper (economic) leftism.

Imagine unironically thinking economic collectivism is the "Deeper" form of leftism.
-----------------
-----------------
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7452
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:05 am

North German Realm wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
More like a detraction from deeper (economic) leftism.

Imagine unironically thinking economic collectivism is the "Deeper" form of leftism.

It can be, but not universally.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2905
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Cappuccina » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:12 am

North German Realm wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
More like a detraction from deeper (economic) leftism.

Imagine unironically thinking economic collectivism is the "Deeper" form of leftism.


Social democracy is a bandage on a broken glass, the water will still escape. Capitalism is the antithesis to morality.
Muslim, Female, Trans, Not white..... oppression points x4!!!!
"Latinx" isn't a real word. :^)
Automobile & Music fan!!! ^_^
Also, an everything 1980s fan!!!
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

Apparently, I'm an INFP

User avatar
North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:13 am

Cappuccina wrote:
North German Realm wrote:Imagine unironically thinking economic collectivism is the "Deeper" form of leftism.


Social democracy is a bandage on a broken glass, the water will still escape. Capitalism is the antithesis to morality.

Even if that were true -and both statements are debatable at best-, that is irrelevant to whether or not authoritarian collectivism is in any way "deep" in term of leftist ideologies.
-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9478
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:18 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:I mean it goes both ways fam.

I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

Would I be a RWDTer or a LWDTer?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:20 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

Would I be a RWDTer or a LWDTer?

RW, I think.

North German Realm wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
Social democracy is a bandage on a broken glass, the water will still escape. Capitalism is the antithesis to morality.

Even if that were true -and both statements are debatable at best-, that is irrelevant to whether or not authoritarian collectivism is in any way "deep" in term of leftist ideologies.

You’d have to define “deep” for that, no?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


Historian, of sorts.

Effortposts can be found here!

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45991
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:23 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

Would I be a RWDTer or a LWDTer?


You're part of the Enlightened Centrist Thread With Ancap Characteristics :^)
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
Crysuko
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7452
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:27 am

North German Realm wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:
Social democracy is a bandage on a broken glass, the water will still escape. Capitalism is the antithesis to morality.

Even if that were true -and both statements are debatable at best-, that is irrelevant to whether or not authoritarian collectivism is in any way "deep" in term of leftist ideologies.

Authoritarians have handily proven that they cannot be trusted to maintain socialism.
Quotes:
Xilonite wrote: cookies are heresy.

Kelinfort wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

Yugoslav Memes wrote:
Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

Official thread euthanologist
I USE Qs INSTEAD OF Qs

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9478
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:33 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Would I be a RWDTer or a LWDTer?


You're part of the Enlightened Centrist Thread With Ancap Characteristics :^)

I see. Wait, didn't that thread die a year ago at about 20 pages?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11949
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:36 am

Crysuko wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Social democrats are still comrades.


They're welfare capitalists at best. Useful for being an entryway to deeper leftism, but not much more.

This is my take. They're critical of capitalism enough that their goals will not, at least in the long term, be a hindrance to the goals of the left - more rights for organizing, better wages, pushing for free universal health and pharmacare, etc. Which is why the likes of Bernie Sanders (although I honestly would consider Sanders to be more radical than the regular Scandinavian-style social democrat/New Deal Progressive) are definitely comrades in my book.

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45991
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:39 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:I mean it goes both ways fam.

I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.


I am SchröDInger's cat, simultaneously belonging to both and neither, and liable to be killed off at any moment.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11949
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:41 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.


I am SchröDInger's cat, simultaneously belonging to both and neither, and liable to be killed off at any moment.

The ultimate centrist - but also not a centrist.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9478
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:46 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.


I am SchröDInger's cat, simultaneously belonging to both and neither, and liable to be killed off at any moment.

I would say you belong a bit more to the LWDT than the RWDT because you post there more often.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

User avatar
Pasong Tirad
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11949
Founded: May 31, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pasong Tirad » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:53 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:I don't even remember when the last time a LWDT'er posted on the RWDT.

Would I be a RWDTer or a LWDTer?

Yes.

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