LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

[Punainen Suomi]

Yet there have been attempts at building a socialist society that have at least gotten off the ground. Can you provide a single example of a state founded on right-libertarian ideals?

The United States.

Do you consider the USA to be a minarchist state?

[Northern Davincia]

The United States.

Slavery is a libertarian ideal?

Was the United States founded on the ideal of slavery? No, it was founded with slavery attached as a malignant tumor.

[Northern Davincia]

The United States.

Do you consider the USA to be a minarchist state?

It was, but then it sadly mutated into its modern, grotesque form. Woodrow Wilson is forever ingrained in my memory as the man behind America's downfall.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Do you consider the USA to be a minarchist state?

It was, but then it sadly mutated into its modern, grotesque form. Woodrow Wilson is forever ingrained in my memory as the man behind America's downfall.

It wasn't even Wilson. The US pretty much ceased to be right-lib rather quickly when the Articles got thrown out.

[Punainen Suomi]

Do you consider the USA to be a minarchist state?

It was, but then it sadly mutated into its modern, grotesque form. Woodrow Wilson is forever ingrained in my memory as the man behind America's downfall.

So would I be correct in presuming that your ideal resembles the gilded age? Also, I find it somewhat amusing that your argument mirrors the argument that the USSR abandoned socialism under Stalin.

[Liriena]

I’ve noticed a trend, whenever there’s a major protest movement anywhere, the left tries to appropriate it as a leftist one. Even when said protests are directly against leftist governments

Case in point Hong Kong and Yellow Vest

Macron's government is not a "leftist" one, and not all leftists are Maoists (or uphold glorious Xi Jinping thought, for that matter). I can't speak for Hong Kong, but I think it's fair to say that the French yellow vest movement wasn't "appropriated" by "the left", so much as that, after the spark that incited of the protests, it grew organically into a movement that contained a lot of grievances and demands that have historically been part of the left.

If the involvement of "the left" in the yellow vest protests hadn't been an organic part of them, then the left-wing activism and rhetoric involved in them would have quickly fizzled out, I think.

[Northern Davincia]

It was, but then it sadly mutated into its modern, grotesque form. Woodrow Wilson is forever ingrained in my memory as the man behind America's downfall.

It wasn't even Wilson. The US pretty much ceased to be right-lib rather quickly when the Articles got thrown out.

The individual states under the Articles had plenty of power to the point that their commitment to liberty was variable.

It was, but then it sadly mutated into its modern, grotesque form. Woodrow Wilson is forever ingrained in my memory as the man behind America's downfall.

So would I be correct in presuming that your ideal resembles the gilded age? Also, I find it somewhat amusing that your argument mirrors the argument that the USSR abandoned socialism under Stalin.

Indeed. As for Stalin, he simply followed the precedent established by Lenin to its logical conclusion.

[Punainen Suomi]

Indeed. As for Stalin, he simply followed the precedent established by Lenin to its logical conclusion.

Does that ideal include the existence of company towns, child labour and violent suppression of strikes?

[New haven america]

I’ve noticed a trend, whenever there’s a major protest movement anywhere, the left tries to appropriate it as a leftist one. Even when said protests are directly against leftist governments

Case in point Hong Kong and Yellow Vest

Macron is as close to the right as a leftist leader in France can get and lol at the implication that the PRC's government isn't right authoritarian.

[Northern Davincia]

Indeed. As for Stalin, he simply followed the precedent established by Lenin to its logical conclusion.

Does that ideal include the existence of company towns, child labour and violent suppression of strikes?

Yes, although the predicament with child labor is that they are greatly unprepared for hard labor, such as coal mining. Violent suppression of strikes is no different than defending one's home from a thief.

[Punainen Suomi]

Does that ideal include the existence of company towns, child labour and violent suppression of strikes?

Yes, although the predicament with child labor is that they are greatly unprepared for hard labor, such as coal mining. Violent suppression of strikes is no different than defending one's home from a thief.

Corporate slavery does not sound particularly conducive to individual liberty. I am also curious as to your opinions on more recent right-libertarian experiments, such as Galt's Gulch Chile and Von Ormy Texas.

[Liriena]

I'm obsessed with his new meme format

[Northern Davincia]

Yes, although the predicament with child labor is that they are greatly unprepared for hard labor, such as coal mining. Violent suppression of strikes is no different than defending one's home from a thief.

Corporate slavery does not sound particularly conducive to individual liberty. I am also curious as to your opinions on more recent right-libertarian experiments, such as Galt's Gulch Chile and Von Ormy Texas.

Corporate slavery doesn't exist so long as one has the capacity to quit. Von Ormy made the mistake of not having a unified vision, as is the trouble with democracy and why I dislike it. There isn't much information about the town for me to say more. As for Galt's Gulch, its founder was a fraud. Libertarians are not fond of fraudsters.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Does that ideal include the existence of company towns, child labour and violent suppression of strikes?

Yes, although the predicament with child labor is that they are greatly unprepared for hard labor, such as coal mining. Violent suppression of strikes is no different than defending one's home from a thief.

No it isn't, companies have no right to the labor of their workes.

[Northern Davincia]

Yes, although the predicament with child labor is that they are greatly unprepared for hard labor, such as coal mining. Violent suppression of strikes is no different than defending one's home from a thief.

No it isn't, companies have no right to the labor of their workes.

Nobody said anything about a right to labor. You don't have the right to occupy the workplace if you no longer have the owner's permission.
You should either stop complaining or leave.

[United Muscovite Nations]

No it isn't, companies have no right to the labor of their workes.

Nobody said anything about a right to labor. You don't have the right to occupy the workplace if you no longer have the owner's permission.
You should either stop complaining or leave.

Striking doesn't necessarily mean occupying the workplace.

Also, you support company towns, what exactly is your issue with the Soviet Union, since it was one giant company town?

[Galloism]

No it isn't, companies have no right to the labor of their workes.

Nobody said anything about a right to labor. You don't have the right to occupy the workplace if you no longer have the owner's permission.
You should either stop complaining or leave.

Um, that’s not what a strike is.

[Northern Davincia]

Nobody said anything about a right to labor. You don't have the right to occupy the workplace if you no longer have the owner's permission.
You should either stop complaining or leave.

Striking doesn't necessarily mean occupying the workplace.

Also, you support company towns, what exactly is your issue with the Soviet Union, since it was one giant company town?

If workers aren't showing up to work, I see no trouble in hiring nonunion labor to fill the gaps. If they are occupying the workplace and refusing to leave, you get hired help to flush them out. I don't see company towns having the ability to kill or imprison residents at will for wrongthink.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Striking doesn't necessarily mean occupying the workplace.

Also, you support company towns, what exactly is your issue with the Soviet Union, since it was one giant company town?

If workers aren't showing up to work, I see no trouble in hiring nonunion labor to fill the gaps. If they are occupying the workplace and refusing to leave, you get hired help to flush them out. I don't see company towns having the ability to kill or imprison residents at will for wrongthink.

Tell me, what duties do the company owners have to their employees?

[Northern Davincia]

If workers aren't showing up to work, I see no trouble in hiring nonunion labor to fill the gaps. If they are occupying the workplace and refusing to leave, you get hired help to flush them out. I don't see company towns having the ability to kill or imprison residents at will for wrongthink.

Tell me, what duties do the company owners have to their employees?

To pay them a market wage and reduce the probability of workplace accidents. That is all.
This is separate from responsibilities that all people have to one another, such as not imposing romantic interests on employees.

[Proctopeo]

I'm obsessed with his new meme format

He built a superpower, but he paid the price of the endless destruction of Russian lives.

Tbh though, Stalin was probably a safer option for Russia than Trotsky, despite the copious amount of bloodshed his reign had.

[Cisairse]

I'm obsessed with his new meme format

He built a superpower, but he paid the price of the endless destruction of Russian lives.

Tbh though, Stalin was probably a safer option for Russia than Trotsky, despite the copious amount of bloodshed his reign had.

I mean, a loss to Hitler in the second world war would absolutely, undoubtedly have been much worse than what Stalin did to his own people.

[North German Realm]

I'm obsessed with his new meme format

He built a superpower, but he paid the price of the endless destruction of Russian lives.

Tbh though, Stalin was probably a safer option for Russia than Trotsky, despite the copious amount of bloodshed his reign had.

Honestly at this point I'm certain if Trotsky had taken power instead of Stalin, the world would have happily sided with the Nazis and then go on a pseudo-Cold War with the Germans once the Soviets had been pretty much destroyed permanently.

[Salus Maior]

I'm obsessed with his new meme format

He built a superpower, but he paid the price of the endless destruction of Russian lives.

Tbh though, Stalin was probably a safer option for Russia than Trotsky, despite the copious amount of bloodshed his reign had.

Nicky was better than either of them.

If Russia had not joined the war, they would have been on route to surpass even the Soviets in industrial capacity and wealth.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm obsessed with his new meme format

He built a superpower, but he paid the price of the endless destruction of Russian lives.

Tbh though, Stalin was probably a safer option for Russia than Trotsky, despite the copious amount of bloodshed his reign had.

Trotsky would have galvanized anti-Semitism and led to a much stronger fascism in the aftermath of the war, and may have even led to the Buchanan outcome where the west aligns with Germany against Russia.