NationStates

Cekoviu wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:Trying to answer the LeftValues test as a right-libertarian was a mistake

Though the dichotomy between "scientific" and "utopian" makes little sense. Sure, Marxist thought is often described as "scientific", but it's still definitely utopian. So, really, it's "scientific utopianism" vs "emotional utopianism", not "science" vs "utopia".

Lol, you're a utopian socialist.

Soviet Tankistan wrote:

Pacomia wrote:I identify as a democratic socialist, so...

I support illiberal democracy and statism, which has 8values place me as a a democratic socialist leaning towards state socialism. I do not support democratic socialism in the typically suggested forms. I believe a multiparty system of parties with some ideas in common would benefit prevention of many factions and divisions in the party and a federal system should be implemented.

Speaking of federal systems, how does the Left-Wing Discussion thread believe international politics and federalism should relate? I believe that many multinational republics should exist with amiable relations rather than inernational councils governing on the principle of nation and state equivalence such as the UN or EU.

Cekoviu wrote:

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:I gave it a whirl. I might be decentralist, but I'm certainly not an anarchist. Apparently, if I were further left, I'd be a utopian socialist. Why they don't have social democracy beats me.

Because social democracy isn't actually leftism?

First American Empire wrote:

Torrocca wrote:
Because I'm an absolute nerd, I also went ahead and did the LeftValues test that I just learned exists, well after the actual discussion on these tests died off. Eco-Anarchism's a pretty valid description of my beliefs, ngl.

This is interesting. I'm a SocDem, but I'm just far enough to the left for this quiz to be relevant to me. Here's my score: https://leftvalues.github.io/results.ht ... 5.4&f=47.1

Reform/Revolution: In terms of politics, I'm okay with either reform or revolution. The left needs to use any means necessary to win, and that includes winning elections. In economics, I would much prefer to reform capitalism to make it actually functional. If that isn't an option, getting rid of capitalism altogether would be less harmful than allowing it to wreck everything in its death throes.

This should really be two separate axes, one for revolutionary and reformist means, and one for how radical the end goal is. I'd be a moderate on the first scale and a reformist on the second, but the test as it is combines them and makes it confusing. As it was, I got 72.9% Reformist.

Scientific/Utopian: I got 75% Scientific. I agree with a lot of Dialectical Materialist thought, even if I don't agree with some of its conclusions.

Central/Decentral: I hate monopolies, whether state controlled or privately owned. Getting a high Decentral score was obviously going to happen. I got 81.2%.

International/National: 97.7% International. I'm more internationalist than basically anyone on the forum, so it's no surprise that I got a score higher than Torra's.

Party/Union: I got a Party score of 85.4%, which surprised me more than anything else on this test. I think both parties and unions are very important, though parties are better at large-scale change.

Industry/Ecology: I got 52.9% Ecology, though none of these tests measure my environmental views well. They all forget that flooding the world's coastlines will be bad for global industry and living standards. There is no conflict between environmentalism and high living standards because environmentalism guarantees the highest living standards.

Cekoviu wrote:

Soviet Tankistan wrote:I support illiberal democracy and statism, which has 8values place me as a a democratic socialist leaning towards state socialism. I do not support democratic socialism in the typically suggested forms. I believe a multiparty system of parties with some ideas in common would benefit prevention of many factions and divisions in the party and a federal system should be implemented.

Speaking of federal systems, how does the Left-Wing Discussion thread believe international politics and federalism should relate? I believe that many multinational republics should exist with amiable relations rather than inernational councils governing on the principle of nation and state equivalence such as the UN or EU.

Regional federations like the EU ought to have less power, but are a generally good concept.

The UN should have increased power and more democratic principles.

However, all countries should still maintain sovereignty.

Proctopeo wrote:

The UN should have increased power and more democratic principles.

In its current state, that's a terrible idea. They're corrupt and stupid, giving them more power is a recipe for disaster.

Cekoviu wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:In its current state, that's a terrible idea. They're corrupt and stupid, giving them more power is a recipe for disaster.

Kind of the point of increasing direct citizen involvement and democratizing the institution...

Proctopeo wrote:

Cekoviu wrote:Regional federations like the EU ought to have less power, but are a generally good concept.

Partially agree. The EU definitely needs less power, but I think the European Economic Community should've never expanded beyond being a trade bloc and the EU should revert to that.

Cekoviu wrote:

Soviet Tankistan wrote:I support illiberal democracy and statism, which has 8values place me as a a democratic socialist leaning towards state socialism. I do not support democratic socialism in the typically suggested forms. I believe a multiparty system of parties with some ideas in common would benefit prevention of many factions and divisions in the party and a federal system should be implemented.

Speaking of federal systems, how does the Left-Wing Discussion thread believe international politics and federalism should relate? I believe that many multinational republics should exist with amiable relations rather than inernational councils governing on the principle of nation and state equivalence such as the UN or EU.

Regional federations like the EU ought to have less power, but are a generally good concept. The UN should have increased power and more democratic principles. However, all countries should still maintain sovereignty.

Kowani wrote:

First American Empire wrote:
This is interesting. I'm a SocDem, but I'm just far enough to the left for this quiz to be relevant to me. Here's my score: https://leftvalues.github.io/results.ht ... 5.4&f=47.1

Reform/Revolution: In terms of politics, I'm okay with either reform or revolution. The left needs to use any means necessary to win, and that includes winning elections. In economics, I would much prefer to reform capitalism to make it actually functional. If that isn't an option, getting rid of capitalism altogether would be less harmful than allowing it to wreck everything in its death throes.

This should really be two separate axes, one for revolutionary and reformist means, and one for how radical the end goal is. I'd be a moderate on the first scale and a reformist on the second, but the test as it is combines them and makes it confusing. As it was, I got 72.9% Reformist.

Scientific/Utopian: I got 75% Scientific. I agree with a lot of Dialectical Materialist thought, even if I don't agree with some of its conclusions.

Central/Decentral: I hate monopolies, whether state controlled or privately owned. Getting a high Decentral score was obviously going to happen. I got 81.2%.

International/National: 97.7% International. I'm more internationalist than basically anyone on the forum, so it's no surprise that I got a score higher than Torra's.

Party/Union: I got a Party score of 85.4%, which surprised me more than anything else on this test. I think both parties and unions are very important, though parties are better at large-scale change.

Industry/Ecology: I got 52.9% Ecology, though none of these tests measure my environmental views well. They all forget that flooding the world's coastlines will be bad for global industry and living standards. There is no conflict between environmentalism and high living standards because environmentalism guarantees the highest living standards.

Normally, I’m more internationalist than literally anyone, since I desire a worldstate. Not sure what knocked me down.

Torrocca wrote:Huh, so that LeftValues thing literally just added a "Conservative vs. Progressive" axis and 12 new questions, so I redid it real quick and this is the result.

Interestingly, I got a higher revolutionary, decentralist, and internationalist score, a lower scientific score, a slightly lower union score (oof), and a lower environmentalist score (bigger oof). The progressive score's pretty neato though, if not pretty low, and it's still got me pinged as an Eco-Anarchist which, again, is super valid.

Pacomia wrote:

Torrocca wrote:Huh, so that LeftValues thing literally just added a "Conservative vs. Progressive" axis and 12 new questions, so I redid it real quick and this is the result.

Interestingly, I got a higher revolutionary, decentralist, and internationalist score, a lower scientific score, a slightly lower union score (oof), and a lower environmentalist score (bigger oof). The progressive score's pretty neato though, if not pretty low, and it's still got me pinged as an Eco-Anarchist which, again, is super valid.

Ugh, I don’t want to take it again. I wonder what’ll happen.

First American Empire wrote:

Kowani wrote:Normally, I’m more internationalist than literally anyone, since I desire a worldstate. Not sure what knocked me down.

I want a worldstate too. And this quiz has sufficient room on the internationalism axis to show who wants a worldstate more. (Spoiler alert: It's me.)

Kowani wrote:

Proctopeo wrote:Partially agree. The EU definitely needs less power, but I think the European Economic Community should've never expanded beyond being a trade bloc and the EU should revert to that.

Nopetty nope nope.

United Muscovite Nations wrote:

Cekoviu wrote:Regional federations like the EU ought to have less power, but are a generally good concept. The UN should have increased power and more democratic principles. However, all countries should still maintain sovereignty.

Disagree. The larger a political entity, the less power individuals have over the political decisions that affect them.

Kowani wrote:

First American Empire wrote:
I want a worldstate too. And this quiz has sufficient room on the internationalism axis to show who wants a worldstate more. (Spoiler alert: It's me.)

It was probably the regional federations. I view them as the first step to global integration.

Soviet Tankistan wrote:

Kowani wrote:It was probably the regional federations. I view them as the first step to global integration.

A world state would be impossible to manage regardless. You cannot control everyone and there is always be a rogue nation threatening unity.

Kowani wrote:

Soviet Tankistan wrote:A world state would be impossible to manage regardless. You cannot control everyone and there is always be a rogue nation threatening unity.

You have no idea the efforts I’m ready to undertake.

Soviet Tankistan wrote:

Kowani wrote:It was probably the regional federations. I view them as the first step to global integration.

A world state would be impossible to manage regardless. You cannot control everyone and there is always be a rogue nation threatening unity.