LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

[New haven america]

No. However, I don’t make the mistake of thinking that the only motives are external. Did that once before. Not again.

Now? Empathy.

I mean, they’re not. It’s rather straightforward on that end- nothing is inherently wrong or right. Morality is an individual thing-one’s moral opinion on theft carries as much weight as their favorite flavor of ice cream.
It only conflicts with self-interest if you don’t consider both evolution and the psychology of gratification.

How cute, the nihilist thinks morals don't matter.

Let me ask you: If I go down to your house and kill you while I rape your mother in front of you, is that as irrelevant as ice cream? So I should be able to do it with total impunity?

In Viking culture that'd be called a normal Tuesday.

[Northern Davincia]

No. However, I don’t make the mistake of thinking that the only motives are external. Did that once before. Not again.

Now? Empathy.

I mean, they’re not. It’s rather straightforward on that end- nothing is inherently wrong or right. Morality is an individual thing-one’s moral opinion on theft carries as much weight as their favorite flavor of ice cream.
It only conflicts with self-interest if you don’t consider both evolution and the psychology of gratification.

How cute, the nihilist thinks morals don't matter.

Let me ask you: If I go down to your house and kill you while I rape your mother in front of you, is that as irrelevant as ice cream?

In Kowani's defense, he will obviously dislike those things, he just won't find them morally wrong.

[Kowani]

No. However, I don’t make the mistake of thinking that the only motives are external. Did that once before. Not again.

Now? Empathy.

I mean, they’re not. It’s rather straightforward on that end- nothing is inherently wrong or right. Morality is an individual thing-one’s moral opinion on theft carries as much weight as their favorite flavor of ice cream.
It only conflicts with self-interest if you don’t consider both evolution and the psychology of gratification.

How cute, the nihilist thinks morals don't matter.

Let me ask you: If I go down to your house and kill you while I rape your mother in front of you, is that as irrelevant as ice cream?

Well, my mother’s already dead, so you can’t do that, and the answer to “I kill you” is evident to anyone who’s read my posts, as you’ve alleged to, so I’m going to assume that you haven’t.
Now that we’ve established that you’re either a liar or have horrendous reading comprehension, I’m going to mute you.

[Kowani]

How cute, the nihilist thinks morals don't matter.

Let me ask you: If I go down to your house and kill you while I rape your mother in front of you, is that as irrelevant as ice cream?

In Kowani's defense, he will obviously dislike those things, he just won't find them morally wrong.

Thank you, ND.

[Cappuccina]

How cute, the nihilist thinks morals don't matter.

Let me ask you: If I go down to your house and kill you while I rape your mother in front of you, is that as irrelevant as ice cream?

Well, my mother’s already dead, so you can’t do that, and the answer to “I kill you” is evident to anyone who’s read my posts, as you’ve alleged to, so I’m going to assume that you haven’t.
Now that we’ve established that you’re either a liar or have horrendous reading comprehension, I’m going to mute you.

You didn't answer his hypothetical though, Kowa. If he were able to do as he described, would you find that wrong?

[Cappuccina]

Well, my mother’s already dead, so you can’t do that, and the answer to “I kill you” is evident to anyone who’s read my posts, as you’ve alleged to, so I’m going to assume that you haven’t.
Now that we’ve established that you’re either a liar or have horrendous reading comprehension, I’m going to mute you.

Can't find the words to defend yourself? Expected from such a nobody. Your morality is that of a bitch boy, simple as.

Hey, chill out with the ad homs. It's unnecessary.

[Kowani]

Well, my mother’s already dead, so you can’t do that, and the answer to “I kill you” is evident to anyone who’s read my posts, as you’ve alleged to, so I’m going to assume that you haven’t.
Now that we’ve established that you’re either a liar or have horrendous reading comprehension, I’m going to mute you.

You didn't answer his hypothetical though, Kowa. If he were able to do as he described, would you find that wrong?

Morally wrong? No. This should be extremely obvious.

[Cappuccina]

You didn't answer his hypothetical though, Kowa. If he were able to do as he described, would you find that wrong?

Morally wrong? No. This should be extremely obvious.

So do you believe people should be allowed to kill and rape as they please? And if not, why?

[Northern Davincia]

In Kowani's defense, he will obviously dislike those things, he just won't find them morally wrong.

Thank you, ND.

In the wise words of Spider-Man, everybody gets one.

[Kowani]

Morally wrong? No. This should be extremely obvious.

So do you believe people should be allowed to kill and rape as they please? And if not, why?

Whether they should or should not is a moral question-it’s not really relevant. I would prefer to live in one where they are not, but not because of the moral issue, but rather, that I would prefer not to be in danger of those things.

Thank you, ND.

In the wise words of Spider-Man, everybody gets one.

Yeah, I have no clue what you’re talking about.

[Kowani]

Morally wrong? No. This should be extremely obvious.

You're trying too hard. Reading comprehension doesn't help you establish who you really are.

Yet somehow, everybody else managed to do it.

Honestly, I would expect something better from a nihilist.

Well, that doesn’t follow.

Now riddle me this: why should I care about what you feel anyways? Who's gonna stop me from actually doing something to you? You and what violence? You and what morals? The ones you pretend not to have?

Did you forget about the existence of the state? Like, I know that this is a common thing for a lot of people to object with, but we don’t live in a nihilist world.

If morality was as vapid as you think it is then it certainly shouldn't matter to you beyond your own personal distaste -- which is irrelevant, you're a nobody-- what I do or not do to you.

Yeah-it doesn’t matter on any larger scale than the individual. This is basic stuff-that you don’t understand it is your fault.

[Kowani]

Whether they should or should not is a moral question-it’s not really relevant. I would prefer to live in one where they are not, but not because of the moral issue, but rather, that I would prefer not to be in danger of those things.


Yeah, I have no clue what you’re talking about.

I don't have to care about your preferences. I cna still shoot you if you don't even have the spine to stand up for some basic morals to protect yourself.

Yes. You can. I will defend myself, because I like life. You will subsequently be arrested and imprisoned. I am not quite sure why you think my views on morality have anything to do with whether I will just accept my death.

[Kowani]

I haven't forgotten but I still can kill you with impunity. State response to a crime is... Oh I dunno, 20 minutes at best.

Yeah, I don’t know where you live, but that’s not the case here.

That is plenty of time to shoot you and leave no trails. So what about those 20 minutes? What morals will defend you against me if you have none to stand up to yourself and kill me before I kill you?

The fact that I like living? This entire train of thought is rather nonsensical.

[Napkizemlja]

Ngl if I was dead and my kid later in life said that there would be nothing morally wrong with myself being raped in front of their eyes, death would be one hell of a boon to spare myself from living to see my own kid become that horrendous.

[Kowani]

Yeah, I don’t know where you live, but that’s not the case here.

The fact that I like living? This entire train of thought is rather nonsensical.

If you like living that much the congratulations you are a moral being and moral means something to you, even if you are here tough guy shitposting about how said morals don't matter.

Your nihilism is a joke. You can't even defend it that well. Which I am not surprised considering the forum we are in is full of your kind.

And here your already convoluted logic went off the rails. Liking being alive has nothing to do with being a moral person.h

[Luminesa]

So do you believe people should be allowed to kill and rape as they please? And if not, why?

Whether they should or should not is a moral question-it’s not really relevant. I would prefer to live in one where they are not, but not because of the moral issue, but rather, that I would prefer not to be in danger of those things.

In the wise words of Spider-Man, everybody gets one.

Yeah, I have no clue what you’re talking about.

It’s a relevant question for everyone from the United Nations down to the poorest people in Africa. You would not want to be in danger of those things, because you know rape is objectively wrong. Otherwise, you’d have no problem with it. It’s not a matter of preference, rape is a matter of humanization, dehumanization, and the law regarding sex and consent. It is a hugely relevant issue in terms of right and wrong.

[Genivaria]

Whether they should or should not is a moral question-it’s not really relevant. I would prefer to live in one where they are not, but not because of the moral issue, but rather, that I would prefer not to be in danger of those things.


Yeah, I have no clue what you’re talking about.

I don't have to care about your preferences. I cna still shoot you if you don't even have the spine to stand up for some basic morals to protect yourself.

Which doesn't have any relevance to anything, unless you're just appealing to Might Makes Right.

[Kowani]

And here your already convoluted logic went off the rails. Liking being alive has nothing to do with being a moral person.h

Of course it is. Your morals are simply "I think you killing me is wrong so I am going to defend myself because it is the right thing to do".

That’s not my thought process at all.

You don't act based on nothing but vapid thoughts.

With the exception of reflex arcs, everybody acts based on thoughts.

And your nihilism is not describing your morals.

Yeah, ‘cause there are no morals to describe in the first place.

Whether they should or should not is a moral question-it’s not really relevant. I would prefer to live in one where they are not, but not because of the moral issue, but rather, that I would prefer not to be in danger of those things.


Yeah, I have no clue what you’re talking about.

It’s a relevant question for everyone from the United Nations down to the poorest people in Africa. You would not want to be in danger of those things, because you know rape is objectively wrong. Otherwise, you’d have no problem with it.

That’s not the basis for my objection in the slightest.

It’s not a matter of preference, rape is a matter of humanization, dehumanization, and the law regarding sex and consent.

It is-if we preferred being raped, it’d be legal. The things you described-dehumanization and humanization are the reasons we very strongly don’t prefer it.

It is a hugely relevant issue in terms of right and wrong.

That’s an extremely odd way to spell bull.

[Kowani]

You can bullshit around the bush all you want. Fact is, if you would defend yourself against me shooting you then you think me shooting you is wrong.

That’s not how that works. Action does not confer moral belief.

Your preferences don't matter. Your thoughts really and truly don't matter even to yourself.

Because if you truly thought killing you was not morally wrong then you would also not defend yourself against me as fiercely as you proclaim you would, yet you are trying to tell me your wannabe nihilist position is the right one. Which is a joke, as you can't even pretend to hide the fact you think killing you would be wrong for whatever reason you have.

That you refuse to call this a morality is a problem you personally have.

Yeesh, and I thought the normal psychoanalysis was shitty. You’ve managed to dive headfirst into the toilet.

[Kowani]

Action to a moral agent opposed to you is a moral response to an action against us.

Nope. Morality requires recognition of the morality of an action. By your logic, army ants and bacteria are acting morally.

Also, it's not psychoanalysis, it's merely what you have conveyed. That you refuse to admit what a loser you are at your own game is not my personal problem either.

So, yeah, your reading comprehension is crap.

[Salus Maior]

1. Morality is an individual thing-one’s moral opinion on theft carries as much weight as their favorite flavor of ice cream.

It only conflicts with self-interest if you don’t consider both evolution and the psychology of gratification.

Morality isn't decided individually, it is always part of a larger social consensus. And overall, the most successful societies have a similar set of morals, one of them being the agreement that rape and murder are inherently wrong.

Evolution isn't based on self-interest. It's based on what works and what gives success, simply put, what an individual personally prefers has nothing to do with it.

[Genivaria]

Nope. Morality requires recognition of the morality of an action. By your logic, army ants and bacteria are acting morally.

So, yeah, your reading comprehension is crap.

I simply don't care about what people think is morality in thought. Because what ultimately matters is what you do about it.

Your moral thought should translate into action. Otherwise is not moral. It's just vapid thoughts in your head. Morality doesn't just require recognition, it requires action. If you're going to go up in arms against somebody wronging you then that inherently means you think they are wrong.

And if all you're doing is thinking after you do something that is not morality either, that's just you convincing yourself to go to sleep at night well.

I simply don't care about what people think is morality in thought. Because what ultimately matters is what you do about it.

Translation: "I don't care what you have to say because I'm not going to listen anyway, I am however going to spin your actions to justify my preconceived notions."

[Genivaria]

I also like how you both appeal to evolution and also tell me that "by my logic" bacteria would be moral, Kowani. Real smart of you.

Yeah that's what happens when you confuse biological self-preservation with a moral philosophy, so yes by your logic all biological organisms have morality. Even those that don't think.

[Genivaria]

Translation: "I don't care what you have to say because I'm not going to listen anyway, I am however going to spin your actions to justify my preconceived notions."

Why should I care about a nobody pretending to be somebody on the internet?

It's obvious you do care or you wouldn't keep responding, or are you trying to get a rise out of people?

[Kowani]

1. Morality is an individual thing-one’s moral opinion on theft carries as much weight as their favorite flavor of ice cream.

It only conflicts with self-interest if you don’t consider both evolution and the psychology of gratification.

Morality isn't decided individually, it is always part of a larger social consensus.

Well, yes and no. Society definitely does have a major role in developing morality, but the very fact that individuals can have morals that diverge from society means that the individual cannot be discounted at all.

And overall, the most successful societies have a similar set of morals, one of them being the agreement that rape and murder are inherently wrong.

Similar set of morals, sure. The morality of rape and murder is not, to my knowledge actually challenged on any societal level-nor is it, outside of maybe the UDHR, justified on the grounds of inherency.

Evolution isn't based on self-interest.

Not entirely, no. Yet the individual’s (and their descendants) self interest is still at the center of the process, even if not by conscious choice. It’s not self-interest in the traditional sense, but the processes/body parts that are more successful for the individual to have win out in the end.