LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

[United Muscovite Nations]

Sounds like the execution was just pointless then.

The Whites were advancing on the town he had been put under house arrest in, and it was obvious that the Whites, many of who were pro-monarchy nobles and upper class folks, could not be allowed to have that figurehead. The Reds executed the Tsar and when Lenin heard about it he said "fuck uh.... no... uh.... that was planned..."


Honestly I think it could have been cool, if the Whites had not gotten near the town, maybe later on the Tsar could be similar to Puyi and end up being a decent communist.

Pretty much every account of the event, including those of Politburo members, is clear that the execution was ordered by Lenin.

Also, Kolchak wouldn't have restored the Tsar, he was a dedicated republican.

[Reatra]

The Whites were advancing on the town he had been put under house arrest in, and it was obvious that the Whites, many of who were pro-monarchy nobles and upper class folks, could not be allowed to have that figurehead. The Reds executed the Tsar and when Lenin heard about it he said "fuck uh.... no... uh.... that was planned..."


Honestly I think it could have been cool, if the Whites had not gotten near the town, maybe later on the Tsar could be similar to Puyi and end up being a decent communist.

Pretty much every account of the event, including those of Politburo members, is clear that the execution was ordered by Lenin.

Also, Kolchak wouldn't have restored the Tsar, he was a dedicated republican.

The White movement was increeeeeedibly diverse and divided, there is literally no telling where it would have went especially if it had the Tsar.

[Tekeristan]

The Tsar's fate good

[United Muscovite Nations]

Pretty much every account of the event, including those of Politburo members, is clear that the execution was ordered by Lenin.

Also, Kolchak wouldn't have restored the Tsar, he was a dedicated republican.

The White movement was increeeeeedibly diverse and divided, there is literally no telling where it would have went especially if it had the Tsar.

It was, but the White Army that was near Yekaterinburg was headed by the provisional government, which had overthrown the Tsar in the first place. The only army that might have restored the Tsar would have been the Northern or Southern Armies, which were too far away.

[Reatra]

The White movement was increeeeeedibly diverse and divided, there is literally no telling where it would have went especially if it had the Tsar.

It was, but the White Army that was near Yekaterinburg was headed by the provisional government, which had overthrown the Tsar in the first place. The only army that might have restored the Tsar would have been the Northern or Southern Armies, which were too far away.

Well I can't see them also executing the Tsar, as that would anger the monarchists in the movement, and like I said, who knows, lots of crazier shit has happened in similar historical situations.

[Republica JIM]

The socialism is the more totalitarian ideology.

[Reatra]

The socialism is the more totalitarian ideology.

ok

[Ostroeuropa]

The socialism is the more totalitarian ideology.

Which kind of socialism?

[Hanafuridake]

It was, but the White Army that was near Yekaterinburg was headed by the provisional government, which had overthrown the Tsar in the first place. The only army that might have restored the Tsar would have been the Northern or Southern Armies, which were too far away.

Well I can't see them also executing the Tsar, as that would anger the monarchists in the movement, and like I said, who knows, lots of crazier shit has happened in similar historical situations.

If the execution had been for purely pragmatic purposes then there would have been no need to execute the Tsar's family just him.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well I can't see them also executing the Tsar, as that would anger the monarchists in the movement, and like I said, who knows, lots of crazier shit has happened in similar historical situations.

If the execution had been for purely pragmatic purposes then there would have been no need to execute the Tsar's family just him.

Executing the tsars family was an attempt to prevent a restoration. I don't think they counted on Far-right Monarchists simply morphing into Far-right Republicans without so much as a pause.

In hindsight it was unnecessary.

[Liriena]

The socialism is the more totalitarian ideology.

Which kind of socialism?

John McDonnell's kind, I imagine. Kneecapping unionists left and right.

[Liriena]

If the execution had been for purely pragmatic purposes then there would have been no need to execute the Tsar's family just him.

Executing the tsars family was an attempt to prevent a restoration. I don't think they counted on Far-right Monarchists simply morphing into Far-right Republicans without so much as a pause.

In hindsight it was unnecessary.

Lenin failed to consider that everyone around him was awful.

[Hanafuridake]

Executing the tsars family was an attempt to prevent a restoration. I don't think they counted on Far-right Monarchists simply morphing into Far-right Republicans without so much as a pause.

In hindsight it was unnecessary.

Lenin failed to consider that everyone around him was awful.

Lenin failed to consider that he himself was awful.

[Ostroeuropa]

Which kind of socialism?

John McDonnell's kind, I imagine. Kneecapping unionists left and right.

So what, rolling back the surveillance state, legalizing drugs, that kind of totalitarianism?

Terrifying. They're going to take away the Cameras. Their absence will loom over us, reminding us of the absence of the Labour Government in all our lives, it will be a constant political feeling.

We're going to smoke pot and look at where the Camera used to be and wonder, what if I'm next? First, they came for the security cameras.

[Liriena]

Lenin failed to consider that everyone around him was awful.

Lenin failed to consider that he himself was awful.

[Liriena]

John McDonnell's kind, I imagine. Kneecapping unionists left and right.

So what, rolling back the surveillance state, legalizing drugs, that kind of totalitarianism?

Yep. It's totalitarianism because some rich people might pay taxes and stuff.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If the execution had been for purely pragmatic purposes then there would have been no need to execute the Tsar's family just him.

Executing the tsars family was an attempt to prevent a restoration. I don't think they counted on Far-right Monarchists simply morphing into Far-right Republicans without so much as a pause.

In hindsight it was unnecessary.

It couldn't have been that because no one in the Tsar's family except Alexei (who would die of natural causes anyway) was even eligible for the throne. There were more eligible heirs already in the White Army.

Moreover, it still doesn't excuse the more widespread execution of Romanovs who were unconnected to the government (i.e. that any Romanov who came under Red custody was executed regardless of their political activities or lack thereof). It's clear that it wasn't purely pragmatic because of that. It was revenge-killing.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Executing the tsars family was an attempt to prevent a restoration. I don't think they counted on Far-right Monarchists simply morphing into Far-right Republicans without so much as a pause.

In hindsight it was unnecessary.

Lenin failed to consider that everyone around him was awful.

"Comrades! The insurrection of five kulak districts should be pitilessly suppressed. The interests of the whole revolution require this because 'the last decisive battle' with the kulaks is now under way everywhere. An example must be demonstrated.

Hang (absolutely hang, in full view of the people) no fewer than one hundred known kulaks, filthy rich men, bloodsuckers.
Publish their names.
Seize all grain from them.
Designate hostages - in accordance with yesterday's telegram.
Do it in such a fashion, that for hundreds of verst around the people see, tremble, know, shout: "strangling (is done) and will continue for the bloodsucking kulaks".

Telegraph the receipt and the implementation.

Yours, Lenin.

P.S. Find more reliable people"

[Ostroeuropa]

So what, rolling back the surveillance state, legalizing drugs, that kind of totalitarianism?

Yep. It's totalitarianism because some rich people might pay taxes and stuff.

It's totalitarianism because their entire lives and existence are spent doing things that should not be permitted in a civilized society. Like rapey mcmurderson saying basic laws are totalitarian because everything they get up to is being controlled and regulated.

It's a subjectivity problem. The fact Labours policies don't actually do all that much to people other than Richy Moneybags and Rapey Mcmurderson and 99.9% of people will be freer and have more agency isn't noticed because to those two, Labour is obviously trying to be an omnipresent force in peoples lives.

Like yes.

For ultrarich people, Labour is totalitarian. Absolutely.

Every single facet of your existence is going to feel the impact of a Labour government.

That's the point.

BUT.

It is not going to impose totalitarianism on british society as a whole. So when they whine Labour is totalitarian, it may well be that they're just really insular and are describing their own experience.

[Liriena]

Yep. It's totalitarianism because some rich people might pay taxes and stuff.

It's totalitarianism because their entire lives and existence are spent doing things that should not be permitted in a civilized society. Like rapey mcmurderson saying basic laws are totalitarian because everything they get up to is being controlled and regulated.

It's a subjectivity problem. The fact Labours policies don't actually do all that much to people other than Richy Moneybags and Rapey Mcmurderson and 99.9% of people will be freer and have more agency isn't noticed because to those two, Labour is obviously trying to be an omnipresent force in peoples lives.

Like yes.

For ultrarich people, Labour is totalitarian. Absolutely.

Every single facet of your existence is going to feel the impact of a Labour government.

That's the point.

BUT.

It is not going to impose totalitarianism on british society as a whole.

...you've been watching Vaush haven't you?

[Ostroeuropa]

It's totalitarianism because their entire lives and existence are spent doing things that should not be permitted in a civilized society. Like rapey mcmurderson saying basic laws are totalitarian because everything they get up to is being controlled and regulated.

It's a subjectivity problem. The fact Labours policies don't actually do all that much to people other than Richy Moneybags and Rapey Mcmurderson and 99.9% of people will be freer and have more agency isn't noticed because to those two, Labour is obviously trying to be an omnipresent force in peoples lives.

Like yes.

For ultrarich people, Labour is totalitarian. Absolutely.

Every single facet of your existence is going to feel the impact of a Labour government.

That's the point.

BUT.

It is not going to impose totalitarianism on british society as a whole.

...you've been watching Vaush haven't you?

Nope.

I've been watching this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AAbm_7uzXY

[Liriena]

...you've been watching Vaush haven't you?

Nope.

I've been watching this;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AAbm_7uzXY

Based and Danepilled.

But yeah, I dig your take. It falls in line with the (bourgeois) right-wing rhetoric I've been seeing elsewhere, really.

[Northern Davincia]

So what, rolling back the surveillance state, legalizing drugs, that kind of totalitarianism?

Yep. It's totalitarianism because some rich people might pay taxes and stuff.

Correct.

[Cappuccina]

So what, rolling back the surveillance state, legalizing drugs, that kind of totalitarianism?

Yep. It's totalitarianism because some rich people might pay taxes and stuff.

Socialism equals taxes, news at 11!

[Tekeristan]

Executing the tsars family was an attempt to prevent a restoration. I don't think they counted on Far-right Monarchists simply morphing into Far-right Republicans without so much as a pause.

In hindsight it was unnecessary.

Lenin failed to consider that everyone around him was awful.

He didnt exsctly have any historical precident to work off of