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LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Under which leaders (if any) was the Soviet Union socialist?

Lenin (1918-1924)
411
34%
Stalin (1924-1953)
223
19%
Khrushchev (1953-1964)
149
12%
Brezhnev (1964-1982)
125
10%
Gorbachev (1985-1991)
126
10%
Never
167
14%
 
Total votes : 1201

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Dumb Ideologies
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Posts: 45983
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:29 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:There are a lot of radical feminist misandrists on the circuit and queer theory speakers who talk about nothing except themselves and how transgressive they are and pretend that narcissism is theory.

Now, if you're asking me if there would be a net gain to society if they were disappeared then I'd have to say yes, but that's not the sort of dynamic that's terribly easy to control once you let it off the leash.

Why don't we invade and reclaim academia, turn it into something worthwhile?


The cathedral defends itself against invaders with the barbed-wire barricade of peer review. Keeps out up to 99.9% of those dastardly "reactionary" criticisms.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:29 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Valrifell wrote:The intelligentsia did nothing wrong.

"Purging academia" is how you get the Cultural Revolution or the Khmer Rouge and honestly I'd rather not.

Yeah, seeing "purge" and "academia" in the same sentence gives me the willies.

Same here, it also reeks of anti-intellectualism and authoritarianism so it gets a hard no from me.
Occasionally the Neo-American States
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Authoritarian leftist as a means to a libertarian socialist end. Civic nationalist and American patriot. Democracy is non-negotiable. Uniting humanity, fixing our planet and venturing out into the stars is the overarching goal. Jaded and broken yet I persist.

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Nakena
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Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:34 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Why don't we invade and reclaim academia, turn it into something worthwhile?


The cathedral defends itself against invaders with the barbed-wire barricade of peer review. Keeps out up to 99.9% of those dastardly "reactionary" criticisms.


Time for a little bonfire perhaps?

Image

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Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
Diplomat
 
Posts: 517
Founded: Jan 21, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:25 am

[quote="Jean-Paul Sartre";
Posted by Jean-Paul Sartre the OP:
Under which leaders (if any) was the Soviet Union socialist?

In their own way all of them were socialist, corrupt, communist, socialist, authoritarian dictators. as has been practiced all over the world, as it is being practiced in North Korea, Vietnam, China, and Cuba.

Even Venezuela.

The Cuban regime, Fidel, Raúl and Diaz-Canel, say we are the continuity of the revolution, nothing has changed in Cuba. They continue to demand socialist sacrifices from the people of Cuba, like from my family still in Cuba, and they live like rich $ capitalists. as these pics prove:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1134785

This thread should have had an option for all of the above if you wished. I would have voted for it. I have not voted on this poll.

All nations are welcomed to see, read and comment on my post.
Miami Shores is a Province of Greater La Habana Cuba, and La Habana Cuba is a regional Province of Greater Miami Shores, democratic capitalist Republic.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Posts: 6004
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:26 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Uhh... postmodernism isn't leftist. Marxism is a very modernist philosophy. Also, queer theory and feminist theory are revisionist, liberal shit. And what's toxic about Neo-Marxism?

Most queer theorists and academic feminists that I've seen are pretty anti-Capitalist. Postmodernism is a worldview shaped and advocated almost exclusively by leftists. Traditional Marxism being modernist does not change this. Especially since postmodernism isn't really post-modernism so much as it is about postmodern-ism, as I understand it. Neo-Marxism is toxic just like original Marxism.

Anti-capitalism isn't necessarily leftist. Third-Positionists, for instance. Fascists too. As for post-modernism, it's main trait is that it rejects meta-narratives, and I recommend reading The Postmodern Condition by Jean-François Lyotard. I'd say that postmodernism tends to defy classifications like "left" or "right" more than anything. And you better take back what you said about Marxism right now.
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How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
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West Leas Oros 2
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Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:29 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Why don't we invade and reclaim academia, turn it into something worthwhile?


The cathedral defends itself against invaders with the barbed-wire barricade of peer review. Keeps out up to 99.9% of those dastardly "reactionary" criticisms.

Well, looks like they need better peers then. Although, a "peer" is usually someone with similar knowledge or understanding, so in their case, none at all.
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
Conscientious Objector in the “Culture War”

NationStates Leftist Alternative only needs a couple more nations before it can hold its constitutional convention!

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West Leas Oros 2
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Posts: 6004
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:31 am

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:Even Venezuela.

Image

Seriously though, you should know better than to invoke the Venezuela argument here. Friendly reminder.
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
Conscientious Objector in the “Culture War”

NationStates Leftist Alternative only needs a couple more nations before it can hold its constitutional convention!

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The East Marches II
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Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:52 am

Valrifell wrote:The intelligentsia did nothing wrong.

"Purging academia" is how you get the Cultural Revolution or the Khmer Rouge and honestly I'd rather not.


Ours lead us into two disasters of wars, wasted 8 trillion dollars, nearly caused a 2nd Great Depression and oversaw the near total gutting of our industrial base.

There is a reason people hate them. They've an awful track record and judgement. I'm sure though more women CEOs in defense firms will change things.

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The East Marches II
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Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:53 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:There are a lot of radical feminist misandrists on the circuit and queer theory speakers who talk about nothing except themselves and how transgressive they are and pretend that narcissism is theory.

Now, if you're asking me if there would be a net gain to society if they were disappeared then I'd have to say yes, but that's not the sort of dynamic that's terribly easy to control once you let it off the leash.

Why don't we invade and reclaim academia, turn it into something worthwhile?


That's a decent suggestion. They have insulated themselves against this by doing away with merit based promotions and tests. They are so incompetent though that I'm sure it can be done.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:56 am

The East Marches II wrote:
Valrifell wrote:The intelligentsia did nothing wrong.

"Purging academia" is how you get the Cultural Revolution or the Khmer Rouge and honestly I'd rather not.


Ours lead us into two disasters of wars, wasted 8 trillion dollars, nearly caused a 2nd Great Depression and oversaw the near total gutting of our industrial base.

There is a reason people hate them. They've an awful track record and judgement. I'm sure though more women CEOs in defense firms will change things.

I'd still rather not purge them. Drive them out of academia and replace them with actually not shitty people with half decent theories and ideas, sure, but we can't just kill them.
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
Conscientious Objector in the “Culture War”

NationStates Leftist Alternative only needs a couple more nations before it can hold its constitutional convention!

User avatar
The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:05 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Ours lead us into two disasters of wars, wasted 8 trillion dollars, nearly caused a 2nd Great Depression and oversaw the near total gutting of our industrial base.

There is a reason people hate them. They've an awful track record and judgement. I'm sure though more women CEOs in defense firms will change things.

I'd still rather not purge them. Drive them out of academia and replace them with actually not shitty people with half decent theories and ideas, sure, but we can't just kill them.


Read above my boy. I didn't disagree with you. Those people aren't worth the cost it would take to kill them anyway.

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West Leas Oros 2
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Posts: 6004
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:08 am

The East Marches II wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:I'd still rather not purge them. Drive them out of academia and replace them with actually not shitty people with half decent theories and ideas, sure, but we can't just kill them.


Read above my boy. I didn't disagree with you. Those people aren't worth the cost it would take to kill them anyway.

Ah, I see. But I don't see how we ought to go about this Academic Reclamation, considering they're content to shut out any attempts at stopping them.
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
Conscientious Objector in the “Culture War”

NationStates Leftist Alternative only needs a couple more nations before it can hold its constitutional convention!

User avatar
The East Marches II
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18033
Founded: Mar 11, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The East Marches II » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:13 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Read above my boy. I didn't disagree with you. Those people aren't worth the cost it would take to kill them anyway.

Ah, I see. But I don't see how we ought to go about this Academic Reclamation, considering they're content to shut out any attempts at stopping them.


Apparently you can write feminist papers that are just word subs of mein kampf. That seems a good place to start :^))))

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Rostavykhan
Minister
 
Posts: 2187
Founded: Sep 30, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rostavykhan » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:15 am

The East Marches II wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Ah, I see. But I don't see how we ought to go about this Academic Reclamation, considering they're content to shut out any attempts at stopping them.


Apparently you can write feminist papers that are just word subs of mein kampf. That seems a good place to start :^))))


Nonsense! All the people need is the Little Red Book. Anything else is unnecessary.
LEARN TO HATE ; TOTAL HATRED FOR TOTAL WAR
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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45983
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:16 am

The East Marches II wrote:
West Leas Oros 2 wrote:Ah, I see. But I don't see how we ought to go about this Academic Reclamation, considering they're content to shut out any attempts at stopping them.


Apparently you can write feminist papers that are just word subs of mein kampf. That seems a good place to start :^))))


Egads, that stunt was hilarious.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

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West Leas Oros 2
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Posts: 6004
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:20 am

Rostavykhan wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Apparently you can write feminist papers that are just word subs of mein kampf. That seems a good place to start :^))))


Nonsense! All the people need is the Little Red Book. Anything else is unnecessary.

The Little Red Book is misogynist because it was written by a man, you un-woke reactionary! :^)
WLO Public News: Outdated Factbooks and other documents in process of major redesign! ESTIMATED COMPLETION DATE: <error:not found>
How many South Americans need to be killed by the CIA before you realize socialism is bad?
I like to think I've come a long way since the days of the First WLO.
Conscientious Objector in the “Culture War”

NationStates Leftist Alternative only needs a couple more nations before it can hold its constitutional convention!

User avatar
Rostavykhan
Minister
 
Posts: 2187
Founded: Sep 30, 2017
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Rostavykhan » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:23 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
Rostavykhan wrote:
Nonsense! All the people need is the Little Red Book. Anything else is unnecessary.

The Little Red Book is misogynist because it was written by a man, you un-woke reactionary! :^)


Oh god, the Stasi Pink Hats are coming. I'm straight up not having a good time.
LEARN TO HATE ; TOTAL HATRED FOR TOTAL WAR
LIVE, LAUGH, LOVE | FEED, SEED, SNEED
 

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Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16474
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Reatra » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:39 am

West Leas Oros 2 wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
Ours lead us into two disasters of wars, wasted 8 trillion dollars, nearly caused a 2nd Great Depression and oversaw the near total gutting of our industrial base.

There is a reason people hate them. They've an awful track record and judgement. I'm sure though more women CEOs in defense firms will change things.

I'd still rather not purge them. Drive them out of academia and replace them with actually not shitty people with half decent theories and ideas, sure, but we can't just kill them.


Bruh that's literally what the term purge means lmao. Deng Xiaoping was purged three times but was able to (unfortunately) come back into power via the Foreign Ministry (he was the one who invented the Three Worlds Theory that justified China's turning away from proletarian internationalism after the 1970s.
yee haw it's time for mass line

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Reatra
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Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Reatra » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:40 am

Loben The 2nd wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:What about the idea appeals to you though?


Nothing quite like bringing people down to your level.


Unironically yeah, like you say that as if an academia anchored in the working class is a bad idea.
yee haw it's time for mass line

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:45 am

lmao, audio of Richard Spencer being an absolute manbaby got leaked by some of his fellow jackbooted fuckwits in what's almost definitely some classical fascist in-fighting, and you can literally smell the salt in his tears as he cries about how superior he is to Jews. It's fucking epic.

EDIT: Link for the curious. There's, shockingly, only one slur thrown out in that entire rant, which occurred because he heard that Heather Heyer was killed.

It really puts into context his livestream where he cried on camera that AntiFA was (and still is) winning.
Last edited by Torrocca on Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Liriena
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Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:59 am

Torrocca wrote:lmao, audio of Richard Spencer being an absolute manbaby got leaked by some of his fellow jackbooted fuckwits in what's almost definitely some classical fascist in-fighting, and you can literally smell the salt in his tears as he cries about how superior he is to Jews. It's fucking epic.

EDIT: Link for the curious. There's, shockingly, only one slur thrown out in that entire rant, which occurred because he heard that Heather Heyer was killed.

It really puts into context his livestream where he cried on camera that AntiFA was (and still is) winning.

I just listened to it :rofl:

Imagine being such a sad pathetic failure of a human being that your fragile self-esteem comes entirely from you fantasizing about how your ancestors were tyrants.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

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Nakena
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Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:59 am

Torrocca wrote:lmao, audio of Richard Spencer being an absolute manbaby got leaked by some of his fellow jackbooted fuckwits in what's almost definitely some classical fascist in-fighting, and you can literally smell the salt in his tears as he cries about how superior he is to Jews. It's fucking epic.

EDIT: Link for the curious. There's, shockingly, only one slur thrown out in that entire rant, which occurred because he heard that Heather Heyer was killed.

It really puts into context his livestream where he cried on camera that AntiFA was (and still is) winning.


He mad. He'd should become trash talker at WWE.
Last edited by Nakena on Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27792
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:04 am

Liriena wrote:
Torrocca wrote:lmao, audio of Richard Spencer being an absolute manbaby got leaked by some of his fellow jackbooted fuckwits in what's almost definitely some classical fascist in-fighting, and you can literally smell the salt in his tears as he cries about how superior he is to Jews. It's fucking epic.

EDIT: Link for the curious. There's, shockingly, only one slur thrown out in that entire rant, which occurred because he heard that Heather Heyer was killed.

It really puts into context his livestream where he cried on camera that AntiFA was (and still is) winning.

I just listened to it :rofl:

Imagine being such a sad pathetic failure of a human being that your fragile self-esteem comes entirely from you fantasizing about how your ancestors were tyrants.


I bet someone with good enough ears can hear a blood vessel or some shit popping, he's so fucking salty lmao
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Liriena
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60885
Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Liriena » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:05 am

Torrocca wrote:
Liriena wrote:I just listened to it :rofl:

Imagine being such a sad pathetic failure of a human being that your fragile self-esteem comes entirely from you fantasizing about how your ancestors were tyrants.


I bet someone with good enough ears can hear a blood vessel or some shit popping, he's so fucking salty lmao

Cucked and blueballed
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
if you passed biology and know
gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧

I disown most of my previous posts

User avatar
Reatra
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16474
Founded: Sep 02, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Reatra » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:06 am

Torrocca wrote:lmao, audio of Richard Spencer being an absolute manbaby got leaked by some of his fellow jackbooted fuckwits in what's almost definitely some classical fascist in-fighting, and you can literally smell the salt in his tears as he cries about how superior he is to Jews. It's fucking epic.

EDIT: Link for the curious. There's, shockingly, only one slur thrown out in that entire rant, which occurred because he heard that Heather Heyer was killed.

It really puts into context his livestream where he cried on camera that AntiFA was (and still is) winning.


Yeah the "anti-establishment" fascist movement has been dying not because fascism is dying but because they've realized "wait, the state and "establishment" are actually on our side..."
yee haw it's time for mass line

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