LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

[Mettaton-EX]

The Kurds, on most of the land they live on now, was taken from Armenians and other minorities targeted by the Young Turks (a cursory look at old ethnic distributions with modern ones would show this is true). They got that land by making a deal with the Devil, as it were. And now, as it were, the Devil's come after them.

Boo Hoo.

and white americans/canadians/australians/etc didn't?

[Proctopeo]

The Kurds, on most of the land they live on now, was taken from Armenians and other minorities targeted by the Young Turks (a cursory look at old ethnic distributions with modern ones would show this is true). They got that land by making a deal with the Devil, as it were. And now, as it were, the Devil's come after them.

Boo Hoo.

and white americans/canadians/australians/etc didn't?

And Arab Muslims didn't?

[Nakena]

and white americans/canadians/australians/etc didn't?

And Arab Muslims didn't?

Are you daring to imply that various places invaded by the Islamic Fundementalists once had cultures and religions of their own before they were repeatedly slaughtered and barbarized and ultimatively driven away or destroyed to a point where only bastardized forms of lower unkultur remained? :^)

[Cekoviu]

What does LWDT think about National Bolshevism?

Those are the only forms of bolshevism i could get behind with. ^^

It's edgy and dumb like every other "third position" brand.

[First American Empire]

I find that ultimately the only play is to futilely whisper in the ears of two sets of people who not-so-secretly hate you, never fully commit to either, deplete all of your ideological energy bashing your head against a brick wall - or alternatively getting it bashed in for you - and then going home to cry and play Kaiserreich in your underwear.

Being a Social Democrat can be like this too sometimes.

[Torrocca]

What does LWDT think about National Bolshevism?

Those are the only forms of bolshevism i could get behind with. ^^

It's edgy and dumb like every other "third position" brand.

^^^

[Hanafuridake]

What does LWDT think about National Bolshevism?

Those are the only forms of bolshevism i could get behind with. ^^

It's usually not even Bolshevik in terms of politics. Just a bunch of Russian nationalists who support corporatism but are nostalgic for the USSR and love the aesthetic.

[Mettaton-EX]

and white americans/canadians/australians/etc didn't?

And Arab Muslims didn't?

not nearly the same

[First American Empire]

Andropov is noticeably absent from the poll.

Everyone knows the Soviet Union was only socialist from 1917-1982 and 1985-1991. Don't they teach you about the USSR's brief foray into anarcho-capitalism under Andropov?

[Proctopeo]

And Arab Muslims didn't?

not nearly the same

How so?

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Are they actually ethnic cleansing them?

Regardless, as harsh as it may seem, I don't have much sympathy for the Kurds. They did, after all, get the land they live on now by participating in the Armenian Genocide.

joke: dividing the region between Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran
broke: giving the region to the Kurds
woke: restoring the true extent of Armenia

bespoke: restoring the Byzantine Empire

[The New California Republic]

Andropov is noticeably absent from the poll.

Everyone knows the Soviet Union was only socialist from 1917-1982 and 1985-1991. Don't they teach you how the USSR's brief foray into anarcho-capitalism under Andropov?

Exactly, hence why I wanted to select all the other options except that one, so it would have been nice to have it in order to exclude it.

[Proctopeo]

joke: dividing the region between Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran
broke: giving the region to the Kurds
woke: restoring the true extent of Armenia

bespoke: restoring the Byzantine Empire

hell yeah brother, now we're talking

[North German Realm]

And Arab Muslims didn't?

not nearly the same

I mean yeah. It was substantially worse, especially when it stopped being the "Arabs" and just started being "Muslims".

[North German Realm]

I mean yeah. It was substantially worse, especially when it stopped being the "Arabs" and just started being "Muslims".

not to mention it had been going on since the fucking 7th century

Give or take. The thing about Arab (and later generally) Muslim atrocities is that they rarely had nuance and really depended on the ruler (local or general) too much to be systematic. At least until the Ottomans popped around.

[Mettaton-EX]

not nearly the same

How so?

white colonists in the americas wiped out >90% of the population. spain wiped out 99.8% of its most valuable ally:

However, the indigenous population who had been living in Tlaxcala were reduced to a small minority. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, in 1625 the city of Tlaxcala had only 700 people, compared to a population of 300,000 a century earlier, owing to epidemics, emigrations, and the work of digging the canal of Nochistongo to drain the Valley of Mexico.

this was enough to measurably affect the world's climate.

[Crysuko]

not to mention it had been going on since the fucking 7th century

Give or take. The thing about Arab (and later generally) Muslim atrocities is that they rarely had nuance and really depended on the ruler (local or general) too much to be systematic. At least until the Ottomans popped around.

and the cycle of:

1 in 10,000 people acts like a fuckstick>WE MUST BOMB THE MOOSELIMBS>homes destroyed>influx of refugees>1 in 10,000 people acts like a fuckstick>repeat forever

goes round yet again

[Crysuko]

and the cycle of:

1 in 10,000 people acts like a fuckstick>WE MUST BOMB THE MOOSELIMBS>homes destroyed>influx of refugees>1 in 10,000 people acts like a fuckstick>repeat forever

goes round yet again

how is that relevant to the Muslim slave trade?

I just felt like mentioning it

[Salus Maior]

Give or take. The thing about Arab (and later generally) Muslim atrocities is that they rarely had nuance and really depended on the ruler (local or general) too much to be systematic. At least until the Ottomans popped around.

and the cycle of:

1 in 10,000 people acts like a fuckstick>WE MUST BOMB THE MOOSELIMBS>homes destroyed>influx of refugees>1 in 10,000 people acts like a fuckstick>repeat forever

goes round yet again

....I leave the discussion for like 4 hours, guys.

[Salus Maior]

I really love how you're not fine with one group of people taking the blame for the crimes of their ancestors, but you're simultaneously fine with a different group of people taking the blame for the crimes of their ancestors. Really gets my brain juices sloshing.

I just said I'm fine with the descendants of Plantation owners and Slave traders paying reparations, so I'm fine with both technically.

Edit: In fact, the Plantation class was also responsible for Africans being screwed over in the South during the reconstruction as well (they actually screwed over the public school system for whites as well). So, you could argue that the Plantation class in the South is responsible for an even wider array of abuses that they need to answer to.

So, I would actually be enthusiastic about them paying reparations, if they're still sitting on ill gotten wealth.

[Crysuko]

I really love how you're not fine with one group of people taking the blame for the crimes of their ancestors, but you're simultaneously fine with a different group of people taking the blame for the crimes of their ancestors. Really gets my brain juices sloshing.

I just said I'm fine with the descendants of Plantation owners and Slave traders paying reparations, so I'm fine with both technically.

Edit: In fact, the Plantation class was also responsible for Africans being screwed over in the South during the reconstruction as well (they actually screwed over the public school system for whites as well). So, you could argue that the Plantation class in the South is responsible for an even wider array of abuses that they need to answer to.

So, I would actually be enthusiastic about them paying reparations, if they're still sitting on ill gotten wealth.

if they themselves have not owned slaves then to demand reperation would be absurd

[Salus Maior]

I just said I'm fine with the descendants of Plantation owners and Slave traders paying reparations, so I'm fine with both technically.

Edit: In fact, the Plantation class was also responsible for Africans being screwed over in the South during the reconstruction as well (they actually screwed over the public school system for whites as well). So, you could argue that the Plantation class in the South is responsible for an even wider array of abuses that they need to answer to.

So, I would actually be enthusiastic about them paying reparations, if they're still sitting on ill gotten wealth.

I would be fine with the owners themselves having to pay reparations but the descendants? that's too much. no one should be held financially liable for what their parents did.

If they inherited the wealth that was built from slave labor, that's still ill-gotten gain. Even from a libertarian perspective, because it was created by a violation of individual freedom and choice.

[Salus Maior]

If they inherited the wealth that was built from slave labor, that's still ill-gotten gain. Even from a libertarian perspective, because it was created by a violation of individual freedom and choice.

then by that same logic the US would have to cede huge swaths of land back to the Native Americans because last i checked we weren't exactly friendly with how we took it.

Most of that would be impossible because of the vast swaths of our population who now live there and the rather small native american population. There's basically nothing we can do with that in a large scale without creating a bigger problem.

Taxing the wealthy for having ill-gotten wealth is not exactly the same thing.

[Salus Maior]

Most of that would be impossible because of the vast swaths of our population who now live there and the rather small native american population. There's basically nothing we can do with that in a large scale without creating a bigger problem.

Taxing the wealthy for having ill-gotten wealth is not exactly the same thing.

you mean we kept it long enough and not it seems stupid to give it back?

the same logic applies here. almost everyone who's wealthy acquired it through some less than friendly means. it's rather difficult to become filthy rich without stepping on some people along the way.

i'd be fine with targeting the wealthy as a whole for a broader program of wealth confiscation. the cancerous influence of billionaires on our politics needs to end, but specifically targeting the descendants of plantation owners is a bit ridiculous because centuries ago their ancestors did shitty things.

Not in principle, but in practicality.

Sure, but it's impossible (and somewhat unfair) to just assume everyone's wealth was built off of coercion rather than genuine mutual deals. In the case of the Plantation class, we can actually track what families profited off of slave labor. Assuming they still have wealth (heck, I'm sure a lot of them are politicians).

[Nakena]

joke: dividing the region between Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran
broke: giving the region to the Kurds
woke: restoring the true extent of Armenia

bespoke: restoring the Byzantine Empire

Restore La Serenissima :^)