LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

[North German Realm]

So, uh, I went and retook the politiscales test since everyone else was, too, and the results are a bit interesting to say the least.

I'm thoroughly spooked by the 5% Nationalism and 5% Laissez-Faire bits, and even more spooked by the relatively low ecology score.

EDIT: Also went ahead and redid 8values and the full 9axes quiz (some of those fucking questions are way too open to interpretation on that one), as well as the dichotomy test on philosophy. I'm actually fairly intrigued by these results, in all honesty.

Because I'm an absolute nerd, I also went ahead and did the LeftValues test that I just learned exists, well after the actual discussion on these tests died off. Eco-Anarchism's a pretty valid description of my beliefs, ngl.

Doesn't seem too far off to me

[Grand Proudhonia]

Im pretty damn curious why the right wing and eve parts of the left wing have such a misunderstanding of the difference between political anarchism and the definition of the word "anarchism"... It kinda just highlights peoples unwillingness to actually seek knowledge.

The usually arguments against political anarchism are things like lack of governance and military defense which are both literal parts of political anarchism

[Philjia]

Im pretty damn curious why the right wing and eve parts of the left wing have such a misunderstanding of the difference between political anarchism and the definition of the word "anarchism"... It kinda just highlights peoples unwillingness to actually seek knowledge.

The usually arguments against political anarchism are things like lack of governance and military defense which are both literal parts of political anarchism

Anarchists claim to be against the idea of a state, but since they have a totally different idea of what a state is to what most people understand it to mean, it tends to confuse the majority of people who aren't polsci nerds.

[Nakena]

Im pretty damn curious why the right wing and eve parts of the left wing have such a misunderstanding of the difference between political anarchism and the definition of the word "anarchism"... It kinda just highlights peoples unwillingness to actually seek knowledge.

The usually arguments against political anarchism are things like lack of governance and military defense which are both literal parts of political anarchism

Concepts that are beyond the known scope of political thought are often instantly dismissed. Unfortunatly.

[Pacomia]

https://leftvalues.github.io/results.ht ... 7.9&f=32.5

I sort of figured it out.

[Cekoviu]

https://leftvalues.github.io/results.html?a=16.7&b=51.9&c=27.1&d=29.5&e=47.9&f=32.5

I sort of figured it out.

>70.5% nationalism

[Pacomia]

https://leftvalues.github.io/results.html?a=16.7&b=51.9&c=27.1&d=29.5&e=47.9&f=32.5

I sort of figured it out.

>70.5% nationalism

I don’t like the idea of a world government, alright?

[Ostroeuropa]

https://leftvalues.github.io/results.ht ... 64.6&f=7.5

Leaning reform, scientific.

Very Decentralized. Very Nationalist. Pro-Party. EXTREME ECOLOGY.

Please note, i'm not "Pro-party", i'm pro representative democracy with the notion that political parties should be organized broadly similarly to how they are now, except in a market socialist economy. I don't want unions just running everything because "MARX SAID ONLY MATERIALISM MATTERS AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS A SPOOK!" because that's complete nonsense and the kind of shit that leads to paranoia about art and so on.

The workers should broadly run the economy, but the economy is not the be all and end all of society. That is precisely one of the things I find so repulsive about capitalism in the first place, and Marxist shite is no better.

The questions attempt to force a dichotomy between rule by politicians and parties and rule by unions which generate the pro-party result because I think it's stupid to ask union reps about national issues and so on. As you can probably tell by my reform V revolt score, i'm ambivalent about what means are used to achieve socialism. Ideally i'd like it to be reform, but revolution is fine too.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

I gave it a whirl. I might be decentralist, but I'm certainly not an anarchist. Apparently, if I were further left, I'd be a utopian socialist. Why they don't have social democracy beats me.

[Cekoviu]

>70.5% nationalism

I don’t like the idea of a world government, alright?

To be fair, it does seem to inflate nationalism significantly, since I did get 54.5% nationalist (which is hilariously inaccurate).

I gave it a whirl. I might be decentralist, but I'm certainly not an anarchist. Apparently, if I were further left, I'd be a utopian socialist. Why they don't have social democracy beats me.

Because social democracy isn't actually leftism?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I don’t like the idea of a world government, alright?

To be fair, it does seem to inflate nationalism significantly, since I did get 54.5% nationalist (which is hilariously inaccurate).

I gave it a whirl. I might be decentralist, but I'm certainly not an anarchist. Apparently, if I were further left, I'd be a utopian socialist. Why they don't have social democracy beats me.

Because social democracy isn't actually leftism?

It is leftism, but on the scale of leftist politics, it is considered "moderate." It is nowhere near as far left as something like Marxism.

[Cekoviu]

To be fair, it does seem to inflate nationalism significantly, since I did get 54.5% nationalist (which is hilariously inaccurate).

Because social democracy isn't actually leftism?

It is leftism, but on the scale of leftist politics, it is considered "moderate." It is nowhere near as far left as something like Marxism.

It might lean slightly to the left, but common social democracy is simply not leftist.

[Ostroeuropa]

To be fair, it does seem to inflate nationalism significantly, since I did get 54.5% nationalist (which is hilariously inaccurate).

Because social democracy isn't actually leftism?

It is leftism, but on the scale of leftist politics, it is considered "moderate." It is nowhere near as far left as something like Marxism.

Have you played Kaiserreich mate?

Social Democracy is on the same spectrum as Liberalism, Libertarianism and Conservatism for a reason.

They're all broadly capitalist and liberal ideologies that adopt elements of other ideologies, except Libertarianism, which is Pure Ideology.

The same hysteria from the Clinton wing of the US Democrats and the Blairite wing of Labour (All Liberals) about Social Democrats taking over their parties for being radicals is precisely the same hysteria you'd see from social democrats about actual socialists taking over.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Because social democracy isn't actually leftism?

Social democracy is leftist. Just because some labour parties have a blairite "Third way" faction doesn't make social democracy right-wing or centrist.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Have you played Kaiserreich mate?

Social Democracy is on the same spectrum as Liberalism, Libertarianism and Conservatism for a reason.

They're all broadly capitalist and liberal ideologies that adopt elements of other ideologies, except Libertarianism, which is Pure Ideology.

A mod (as good as it is) is not representative of reality, sorry to say.

[Ostroeuropa]

Have you played Kaiserreich mate?

Social Democracy is on the same spectrum as Liberalism, Libertarianism and Conservatism for a reason.

They're all broadly capitalist and liberal ideologies that adopt elements of other ideologies, except Libertarianism, which is Pure Ideology.

A mod (as good as it is) is not representative of reality, sorry to say.

I strongly disagree.

You can argue social democracy is socialist if they are straight up an old school 1900s "Social democracy should transition to socialism" Social democrat, but most of them these days see it as an end goal in itself.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

It is leftism, but on the scale of leftist politics, it is considered "moderate." It is nowhere near as far left as something like Marxism.

It might lean slightly to the left, but common social democracy is simply not leftist.

It is center-left, but I know where you're coming from. They don't foam at the mouth due at the mere prospect of someone owning a private business.

[Ostroeuropa]

It might lean slightly to the left, but common social democracy is simply not leftist.

It is center-left, but I know where you're coming from. They don't foam at the mouth due at the mere prospect of someone owning a private business.

I like people owning businesses so much I want everyone to do it. But apparently i'm against it somehow, who knew.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

I strongly disagree.

You can argue social democracy is socialist if they are straight up an old school 1900s "Social democracy should transition to socialism" Social democrat, but most of them these days see it as an end goal in itself.

They don't need to promote outright socialism to be leftist. The idea that socialism is the be-all and end-all of left-wing politics is a cancer that needs to drop dead.

[Pacomia]

I don’t like the idea of a world government, alright?

To be fair, it does seem to inflate nationalism significantly, since I did get 54.5% nationalist (which is hilariously inaccurate).

I gave it a whirl. I might be decentralist, but I'm certainly not an anarchist. Apparently, if I were further left, I'd be a utopian socialist. Why they don't have social democracy beats me.

Because social democracy isn't actually leftism?

To quote the LeftValues page itself:

“Those with a higher international score tend to support forming an international socialist movement, often with the eventual goal of abolishing nations. Those with a higher national score tend to prioritize building socialism within existing borders and reject the goal of a world socialist republic.”

So, not necessarily nationalism, just anti-internationalism.

[Ostroeuropa]

I strongly disagree.

You can argue social democracy is socialist if they are straight up an old school 1900s "Social democracy should transition to socialism" Social democrat, but most of them these days see it as an end goal in itself.

They don't need to promote outright socialism to be leftist. The idea that socialism is the be-all and end-all of left-wing politics is a cancer that needs to drop dead.

They're on the left of the center, not the left. The notion that politics is a line that can be seperated into two equal halves is the real cancer.

There's the left, the liberals, and the fascists.

[Pacomia]

They don't need to promote outright socialism to be leftist. The idea that socialism is the be-all and end-all of left-wing politics is a cancer that needs to drop dead.

They're on the left of the center, not the left. The notion that politics is a line that can be seperated into two equal halves is the real cancer.

There's the left, the liberals, and the fascists.

Wait, what’s the difference between leftism and liberalism again?

[Ostroeuropa]

They're on the left of the center, not the left. The notion that politics is a line that can be seperated into two equal halves is the real cancer.

There's the left, the liberals, and the fascists.

Wait, what’s the difference between leftism and liberalism again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlLgvSduugI

A good series on it.

[Pacomia]

Wait, what’s the difference between leftism and liberalism again?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlLgvSduugI

A good series on it.

Can’t watch it right now, but noted.

[The Wasatch]

My results:
https://leftvalues.github.io/results.ht ... 2.9&f=15.0