LWDT 8: Hitting the Marx

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

---

The Left-Wing Discussion Thread
Vol. VIII: Posadist Makeover!

I'm escaping to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by capitalism: SPACE!*
Don't be a dick to LGBT+ people, in keeping with the previous owner's efforts to keep this thread safe for them.

---

I've stolen this thread OP from Torrocca, who was surprisingly polite about me stealing this thread-making opportunity from Kowani.

Suggestions for improvements, changes, or additions to the poll and opening post are very welcome.

The previous iteration of the LWDT can be found here.

Relevant subjects for discussion include:

• The politics, philosophies, and ideologies of the political left.
• Left-wing perspectives on economics and political economy.
• News and history relevant to the political left.
• Left-wing responses to current events.
• Left-wing perspectives on social and economic problems.
• Political, social, cultural, and economic problems and their solutions according to the political left.
• Leftist intersectionality with movements aimed at alleviating the suffering of oppressed minority groups such as the LGBT+ community, oppressed racial minority groups, and more.
• Bread, bread, bread, and bread! Thanks Bread Santa!
• How Capitalism oppresses the working class laborers of society.
• Why the concept of billionaires is a horrible concept for any society, ever.
• The problems facing particular left-wing movements or the political left in general, and how to resolve them.

Poll History:

”What kind of Leftist are you?”

• Centrist/Moderate/Third wayer - 279 (13%)
• Social Liberal - 259 (12%)
• Social Democrat - 338 (16%)
• Green Progressive - 188 (9%)
• Democratic Socialist - 433 (20%)
• Marxist Communist - 246 (12%)
• Anarchist Communist - 202 (10%)
• Other (please state) - 176 (8%)

Total Votes: 2121 (Recorded 28/11/2016)

”What type of leftist are you?”

• Left-leaning Centrist - 50 (12%)
• Social Liberal - 57 (14%)
• Social Democrat - 62 (15%)
• Democratic Socialist - 80 (19%)
• Marxist Communist - 59 (14%)
• Anarchist Communist - 41 (10%)
• Collectivist Anarchist - 9 (2%)
• Individualist Anarchist - 10 (2%)
• Revolutionary Syndicalist - 22 (5%)
• Other (Please State) - 28 (7%)

Total Votes: 418 (Recorded 26/12/2016)

”What type of leftist are you?”

• Left-leaning Centrist - 57 (13%)
• Left/Social Liberal - 51 (12%)
• Social Democrat - 73 (17%)
• Democratic Socialist - 78 (18%)
• Libertarian Marxist - 22 (5%)
• Other Marxist - 43 (10%)
• Social Anarchist - 31 (7%)
• Individualist Anarchist - 13 (3%)
• Revolutionary Syndicalist - 21 (5%)
• Other (Please State) - 47 (11%)

Total Votes: 436 (Recorded 05/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Thinker?”

• John Rawls - 11 (7%)
• John Stuart Mill - 12 (8%)
• Karl Marx - 44 (29%)
• Max Stirner - 11 (7%)
• Simone de Beauvoir - 1 (1%)
• Noam Chomsky - 13 (9%)
• Peter Kropotkin - 30 (20%)
• Pierre-Joseph Proudhon - 6 (4%)
• Slavoj Žižek - 7 (5%)
• Other (Please State) - 15 (10%)

Total Votes: 150 (Recorded 19/02/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Politician?”

• Bernie Sanders - 25 (17%)
• Clement Attlee - 9 (6%)
• Eugene V. Debs - 19 (13%)
• Franklin D. Roosevelt - 37 (25%)
• François Mitterand - 1 (1%)
• Nikita Krushchev - 4 (3%)
• Nelson Mandela - 21 (14%)
• Salvador Allende - 8 (5%)
• Tony Benn - 4 (3%)
• Other (Please State) - 23 (15%)

Total Votes: 151 (Recorded 14/03/2017)

”Favourite Left-Wing Social Movement/Revolution?”

• French Revolution, 1789 (France) - 61 (14%)
• Spring Of Nations, 1848 (Europe) - 34 (8%)
• October Revolution, 1917 (Russia) - 60 (14%)
• Spanish Revolution, 1936 (Spain) - 57 (14%)
• Chinese Communist Revolution, 1946 (China) - 14 (3%)
• Resistance To Apartheid, 1950 (South Africa) - 24 (6%)
• Cuban Revolution, 1953 (Cuba) - 19 (5%)
• Civil Rights Movement, 1954 (USA) - 123 (29%)
• Occupy Movement, 2011 (International) - 10 (2%)
• Other (Please State) - 19 (5%)

Total Votes: 421 (Recorded 29/7/2017)

”Preferred economic system?”

• Welfare Capitalism 92 (23%)
• Market Socialism 62 (16%)
• Mutualism 10 (3%)
• Syndicalism 40 (10%)
• Communalism 13 (3%)
• State Planning 36 (9%)
• Decentralised Planning 27 (7%)
• Higher Phase Communism 38 (10%)
• Left-wing Market Anarchism 15 (4%)
• Other 67 (17%)

Total Votes: 400 (Recorded 05/11/2017)

Left-leaning Centrist
105 13%
Left/Social Liberal
74 9%
Social Democrat
115 14%
Democratic Socialist
139 17%
Marxist Communist
139 17%
Social Anarchist
50 6%
Individualist Anarchist
38 5%
Revolutionary Syndicalist
39 5%
Communalist
27 3%
Other (Please Post)
71 9%
Total votes : 797 (6/3/18)

Was Trotsky Polyamorous?
Yes 141 58%
Yes 103 42%

Who are the greatest threat to the Revolution?

Class traitors 9 5%
Social Democratic Fascists 17 9%
Bourgeois Homosexuals 30 16%
Kulaks 7 4%
Trotskyite Conspirator Saboteurs 16 9%
Actual Capitalists and Fascists 103 57%
Total votes : 182

Poll 1: Bread poll! Which Bread Anarchism is the best? (65 votes total)

• Bread Santa, of course! - 3 (5%)
• Bread Santa but more red. - 3 (5%)
• Seriously? THIS is a poll? - 4 (6%)
• Yes. - 3 (5%)
• The Conquest of Bread. - 3 (5%)
• I knead to get out of this thread. - 5 (8%)
• Can you not be OP anymore? - 5 (8%)
• No. - 13 (20%)
• Fully Automated Luxury Hella Queer Space Anarchy forever! - 11 (17%) ( ;~; )
• Torra, are you okay? Are you inbread? Because these poll options suck. - 15 (23%)

Poll 2: Roughly where do you sit on the left-wing of the political spectrum?

• Yes. - 6 (17%)
• Center-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
• Center-left, libertarian. - 3 (9%)
• Center-left, centrist. - 4 (11%)
• Mid-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
• Mid-left, libertarian. - 4 (11%)
• Mid-left, centrist. - 3 (9%)
• Far-left, authoritarian. - 1 (3%)
• Far-left, libertarian. - 10 (29%)
• Far-left, centrist. - 2 (6%)

Poll 3: Title Time! Which Title Should We Have?

• Keep it as it is. - 4 (11%)
• Yes. - 6 (17%)
• Bread Dead Redemption. - 18 (50%)
• Makhno Mistake, The Left is The Best! - 4 (11%)
• The Right Can't Fight! - 4 (11%)

Poll 1: What do you think is currently the most successful existing example of a leftist movement globally?

• Rojava, Northern Syria (2,000,000 people, acting as a governing body since 2014 and autonomous since 2016; Semi-Direct Democratic Libertarian Socialism) - 57 (40%)
• The Zapatista Autonomous Communities, Chiapas, Mexico (364,000 people, autonomous since 1994; Direct Democratic Libertarian Socialism) - 37 (26%)
• The DSA, USA (60,000 members as of 2019, founded in 1982; Democratic Socialist/Social Democratic, depending on region or person) - 11 (8%)
• The International Workers' Association (17 member groups across the world, founded in 1922; Anarcho-Syndicalism) - 10 (7%)
• The Committee for a Workers' Internationale (41 member groups globally, founded in 1974; Trotskyist) - 7 (5%)
• Movement for Socialism, Bolivia (88/130 Deputies and 25/36 Senators, has democratically held power since 2006; Socialism of the 21st Century) - 20 (14%)

Poll 2: Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

• Other (Please Explain) - 32 (25%)
• The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels) - 23 (18%)
• The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin) - 24 (19%)
• Das Kapital (Karl Marx) - 21 (16%)
• What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon) - 2 (2%)
• Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara) - 8 (6%)
• Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin) - 2 (2%)
• Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky) - 4 (3%)
• The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner) - 8 (6%)
• Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber) - 5 (4%)

Poll 1: Who is your favorite breadtuber?

• ContraPoints - 44 (26%)
• Hbomberguy - 21 (12%)
• Shaun and Jen - 6 (3%)
• Innuendo Studios - 8 (5%)
• Philosophy Tube - 22 (13%)
• Peter Coffin - 2 (1%)
• Three Arrows - 12 (7%)
• BadMouseProductions - 21 (12%)
• Thought Slime - 5 (3%)
• Other - 31 (18%)

Reading Suggestions:
If you’re looking to read something relevant to left-wing politics, consider reading some of the texts below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.

• Socialism (Sylvia Pankhurst)
  
• The Soul of Man under Socialism (Oscar Wilde)
  
• Public Ownership and Common Ownership (Anton Pannekoek)
  
• Capitalist Property (Paul Lafargue)
  
• The Principles Of Communism (Friedrich Engels)
  
• The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels)
  
• Socialism: Utopian and Scientific (Friedrich Engels)
  
• Wage, Labour, and Capital (Karl Marx)
  
• Value, Price, and Profit (Karl Marx)
  
• Economic & Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 (Karl Marx)
  
• Critique of the Gotha Programme (Karl Marx)
  
• Synopsis of Capital (Friedrich Engels)
  
• Reform or Revolution (Rosa Luxemburg)
  
• The State and Revolution (Vladimir Lenin)
  
• An Introduction to Marxist Economic Theory (Ernest Mandel)
  
• Anarchism: From Theory to Practice (Daniel Guérin)
  
• Anarchism and Other Essays (Emma Goldman)
  
• What Is Communist Anarchism? (Alexander Berkman)
  
• Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution (Peter Kropotkin)
  
• The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
  
• The Unique and Its Property (Max Stirner)
  
• The Right To Be Greedy (For Ourselves)
  
• Social Ecology and Communalism (Murray Bookchin)

Video Suggestions:
If you’d rather watch something relevant to left-wing politics, consider having a look at some of the videos below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.

Videos

• Vox: How wealth inequality is dangerous for America (2:35)
• 8-Bit Philosophy: Is Capitalism Bad For You? (3:39)
• Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung: What is Social Democracy? (3:48)
• 8-Bit Philosophy: What is Marxism? (Karl Marx + Super Mario Bros.) (3:51)
• The Next System Project: What is Economic Democracy? (3:52)
• The Next System Project: The Pluralist Commonwealth (4:18)
• The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine (4:46)
• Complete History Of The Soviet Union, Arranged To The Melody Of Tetris (6:47)
• Intro to Anarchy: Power & Violence (7:53)
• The history of Anarchism in 8 minutes (8:27)
• The School of Life: Political Theory – Karl Marx (9:27)
• RSA ANIMATE: First as Tragedy, Then as Farce (10:56)
• Karl Marx & Conflict Theory: Crash Course Sociology #6 (11:19)
• TED Talks: How economic inequality harms societies (16:47)
• The RSA: David Harvey on The Contradictions of Capitalism (18:47)
• Marxism lecture by Prof. Raymond Geuss 1/8 (32:41)
• Socialism Has Never Worked? (43:26)
• The Society of the Spectacle (1:14:40)

YouTube Playlists

• Philosophy Tube's Series on Marx
• Reading Marx's Capital Vol 1 with David Harvey
• Reading Marx's Capital Vol 2 with David Harvey
• Law of Value (the labor theory of value) (Kapitalism 101)
• Libertarian Socialism 101 (Libertarian Socialist Rants)

YouTube Channels

• ContraPoints
• Anarchopac
• Mexie
• ProSocialism
• BadMouseProductions
• Xexizy
• Kwame Genov
• Herbal HRT Garden
• Socialism Explained
• What is Anarchism?
• Zero Books
• Libertarian Socialist Rants
• AnarchistCollective
• LeftSphere
• Ex Worker
• ComradeBun
• Audible Socialism
• Shaun and Jen
• Red Vanguard Radio
• TheFinnishBolshevik
• Endymion
• azureScapegoat
• Red Star Videos
• Flea Market Socialist
• /leftypol/ Videos
• leftypol
• Garrett
• Socialism Or Barbarism!
• Bat'ko the Manarchist
• Chomsky's Philosophy
• Zizekian Studies
• Slavoj Zizek Videos

Lots of free leftist literature is available at:

• Marxists Internet Archive
• Libcom.org
• The Anarchist Library
• Marx & Engels Collected Works

Free leftist audiobooks are also available at:

• https://www.reddit.com/r/AudioSocialism/
• https://www.marxists.org/audiobooks/index.htm
• https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvfeZJmLFo2o90A0v3ce2_Q/videos
• https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaO1QA8QL99_eb0XhJI2Fyw/videos

Other useful resources:

• Molleindustria
• MarxistPhilosophy.org
• Anti-Dialectics
• Nestor Makhno Archive
• An Anarchist FAQ
• Dictionary of Revolutionary Marxism
• Communist Reading List (Ultra-Left)

If you’re interested in discussing matters pertaining to the political right, we can recommend several entirely voluntary re-education seminars to remedy this unfortunate perspective. So, get to it.

Thanks to Torrocca for allowing me to copypaste this OP.
**Posadism will prevail. A vanguard that transcends space and time to protect us in the aftermath of nuclear war.

[New haven america]

>:D

[Benuty]

In before totalists seize control of the thread.

Radical Socialist Norman Thomas of the commonwealth of Labor is the best outcome for the CSA.

Prove me wrong.

[Cekoviu]

In before totalists seize control of the thread.

Radical Socialist Norman Thomas of the commonwealth of Labor is the best outcome for the CSA.

Prove me wrong.

I love how nonsensical you are.

[Cekoviu]

Gib poll pls

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

In before totalists seize control of the thread.

Radical Socialist Norman Thomas of the commonwealth of Labor is the best outcome for the CSA.

Prove me wrong.

I feel like that's a BOP shift

[Electic]

In before totalists seize control of the thread.

Radical Socialist Norman Thomas of the commonwealth of Labor is the best outcome for the CSA.

The flags out -- too late

[Kowani]

Oh, yay.

[Benuty]

In before totalists seize control of the thread.

Radical Socialist Norman Thomas of the commonwealth of Labor is the best outcome for the CSA.

Prove me wrong.

I love how nonsensical you are.

Totalism is objectively cancer as proven by the fact it gets overthrown by the French, British, and Indians if you don't make the right choices carefully.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Gib poll pls

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

[Torrocca]

Gib poll pls

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Go ahead and copy-paste it ^_^

Don't forget to copy the last poll into the list of previous polls. :3

[Electic]

I love how nonsensical you are.

Totalism is objectively cancer as proven by the fact it gets overthrown by the French, British, and Indians if you don't make the right choices carefully.

LWDT HOI IV MP game when?

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Go ahead and copy-paste it ^_^

Don't forget to copy the last poll into the list of previous polls. :3

[Kowani]

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Go ahead and copy-paste it ^_^

Don't forget to copy the last poll into the list of previous polls. :3

I see I managed to escape.

[Cekoviu]

Gib poll pls

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Okay, but when you do, make the poll "Who is your favorite breadtuber?"
Answers:
- ContraPoints
- Hbomberguy
- Three Arrows
- Shaun
- Maoist Rebel News
- Black Pigeon Speaks
- Stefan Molyneux

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I reckon the poll should be this;

Bernie or Rosa? That simple.

[Cekoviu]

I reckon the poll should be this;

Bernie or Rosa? That simple.

Rosa who? Luxemburg? Diaz?

[Electic]

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Okay, but when you do, make the poll "Who is your favorite breadtuber?"
Answers:
- ContraPoints
- Hbomberguy
- Three Arrows
- Shaun
- Maoist Rebel News
- Black Pigeon Speaks
- Stefan Molyneux

Second this.

[Torrocca]

Go ahead and copy-paste it ^_^

Don't forget to copy the last poll into the list of previous polls. :3

I see I managed to escape.

For now, but we'll be back, and in greater numbers.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Okay, but when you do, make the poll "Who is your favorite breadtuber?"
Answers:
- ContraPoints
- Hbomberguy
- Three Arrows
- Shaun
- Maoist Rebel News
- Black Pigeon Speaks
- Stefan Molyneux

Maoist Rebel News is the only real Breadtuber. All the others are bourgeois posers. Obviously.

[Torrocca]

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Okay, but when you do, make the poll "Who is your favorite breadtuber?"
Answers:
- ContraPoints
- Hbomberguy
- Three Arrows
- Shaun
- Maoist Rebel News
- Black Pigeon Speaks
- Stefan Molyneux

Those last two have systematically spooked me to my core.

I rate this bread/bread.

[Pacomia]

Liberty good.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Waiting for permission/lack thereof from Torrocca to reuse the old OP to edit the OP.

Okay, but when you do, make the poll "Who is your favorite breadtuber?"
Answers:
- ContraPoints
- Hbomberguy
- Three Arrows
- Shaun
- Maoist Rebel News
- Black Pigeon Speaks
- Stefan Molyneux

Don't forget Vaush.

[Bojikami]

Ya ya yeet

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I don't know what you view as reasonable. Maybe or maybe not. Either way, I don't support megadoners controlling politics and I support restrictions on donations as a result, and if my language is imprecise, I'll fix it.

Why?

They're not controlling politics, they're simply spending their money as they please, as private citizens are allowed to do.

I don't think that represents your views, but the reason why I disagree with that as there is an elaborate system of perks given when politicians sell out and it effectively results in politicians serving the interests of a small amount of megadoners, and it results in corrupt policies being implemented, like wall street bailouts, and that can negatively effect everyone else.