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Why are Antisemites so weird?
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:24 amby The Emerald Legion
Like seriously. I disagree with white Nationalists but at least their views, while repugnant and stupid, make sense. "We are Genetically superior." It's incorrect and dumb but I can understand.
Meanwhile. Antisemites might as well be describing fucking magical vampires for all their views on Jewish people has to do with reality. Like it's always some crazy supernatural thing.
Any thoughts as to why this is NSG? Personally I'm pretty darn bamboozled, and my only guess is anti-Semitism being an older prejudice that's partially founded in biblical stuff. Whereas White Supremacy is a more recent hate.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:25 amby Sapporo Hyperspace Riftgate Laboratory
The Emerald Legion wrote:Like seriously. I disagree with white Nationalists but at least their views, while repugnant and stupid, make sense. "We are Genetically superior." It's incorrect and dumb but I can understand.
Meanwhile. Antisemites might as well be describing fucking magical vampires for all their views on Jewish people has to do with reality. Like it's always some crazy supernatural thing.
Any thoughts as to why this is NSG? Personally I'm pretty darn bamboozled, and my only guess is anti-Semitism being an older prejudice that's partially founded in biblical stuff. Whereas White Supremacy is a more recent hate.
Because they're anti-semites, duh
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:27 amby Nakena
Modern (extreme) antisemitism does, however consciously, insinuates that jews are essentially a different kind of human. Aliens or monsters in human form. Hitler himself did hinted towards it.
Adolf Hitler wrote:Two worlds face one another-the men of God and the men of Satan. The Jew is the anti-man, the creature of another god. He must have come from another root of the human race. I set the Aryan and the Jew over against each other; and if I call one of them a human being I must call the other something else. The two are as widely separated as man and beast. Not that I would call the Jew a beast. He is much further from the beasts than we Aryans. He is a creature outside nature and alien to nature.
Source:
http://www.johndclare.net/weimar6_racism2.htmlAnd this is exactly as horrifiyng and mind blowing as it sounds. There is no surprise that theres a correlation between David Ickes Reptilians and antisemitism.
There is no rationale at some point, it becomes a matter of belief.
Radical antisemitism is a belief system in itself. (and i'd like to differentiate that and stuff that is based in actual social tensions and the likes)
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:27 amby Kowani
The Emerald Legion wrote:Like seriously. I disagree with white Nationalists but at least their views, while repugnant and stupid, make sense. "We are Genetically superior." It's incorrect and dumb but I can understand.
Meanwhile. Antisemites might as well be describing fucking magical vampires for all their views on Jewish people has to do with reality. Like it's always some crazy supernatural thing.
Any thoughts as to why this is NSG? Personally I'm pretty darn bamboozled, and my only guess is anti-Semitism being an older prejudice that's partially founded in biblical stuff. Whereas White Supremacy is a more recent hate.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:30 amby SD_Film Artists
I think they do it on reflex; the right-wing anti-semites doing it because Hitler did and the left-wing anti-semites doing it because of their equally arbitrary position* on the Israel-Palestine conflict.
*Palestine was never socialist and I doubt that they're pro-LGBT.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:34 amby Nakena
The Emerald Legion wrote:Meanwhile. Antisemites might as well be describing fucking magical vampires for all their views on Jewish people has to do with reality.
Like it's always some crazy supernatural thing.
Well because there is in many cases. Its a belief system.
Mind you're talking here about the radical, extreme forms.
Hitler, Celine and Icke tier shit.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:39 amby Ostroeuropa
It's not meant to be true. It's meant to take all circumstances they can, and weave a narrative that points blame at their enemies. The point is to gather people willing to repeat it (I.E, those who fancy a scrap or just dislike Jews vaguely or whatever) into one place, one mass, and then have them go mental.
This is why I compare them to feminists and how there is the same backward rationalizations that always end up with placing men in their targets.
If I say "My neighbor raped some kids.", I don't necessarily need it to be *true* or to *believe* it, I just need to keep repeating it knowing that it casts suspicion about them and makes people dislike them. And oh look, all the neighbors enemies are agreeing with me, yep, raped some kids, saw it myself.
Get a bunch of us repeating it and suddenly there's a lot of negativity associated with my neighbor, especially as those defending him are so angry and hostile to the people spreading these lies and we're playing the victim.
Oh that bus crash? It was my neighbor, somehow.
Why X? Neighbor.
Scattershot it and you'll get people being like; "Well most of it is bullshit, but I believe the bit about the neighbor causing the banking crisis, that was well argued and aligns with my suspicion that the official story is wrong.". Try and frame everything so you have a choice; Believe one ideology defined as "The opposition", or believe it was secretly the Jews. Are you not a neoliberal conservative? Well then my friend you should be a Nazi, because those are your choices, says the Nazi.
Then you go lynch my neighbor and people like the above go; "eh, justice served.".
It is not meant to be true. It is meant to gather people willing to repeat it.
The difference between someone who claims Jews are in a literal conscious conspiracy to fuck us over, and someone who thinks Jewish lobbies are ruining the media through their bias, is that nobody actually believes the former.
They say it to see who also says it. It's a way to signal bad faith.
Then you organize with the people who also say it, and create a bunch of lies like the second one that less actively evil people are willing to believe.
How can you find out who is going to be a total shill for a cause? State the most batshit ludicrous version you can and see who nods. Those are your core group, those are who you get to manage the whole thing because they're going to go as far as you need to go.
You're not going to get the "Jewish lobbies are shit" guy to say "And that's why we need a genocide.".
The shills?
They will. They will organize a genocide if you ask them. they will tell lies of their own volition, and so on. The "Jewish lobbies" guy? They might not.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:39 amby GLDF
Why are racists so weird?
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:39 amby Nouveau Quebecois
Have you considered speaking with one?
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:40 amby The New California Republic
Antisemitism is more often than not accompanied by strange conspiracy theories, which further adds to the general air of weirdness.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:40 amby Ifreann
I expect it's because anti-Semitism is so rooted in conspiracy theories. If flimsy evidence has convinced a person that Jews run Hollywood as a propaganda mill, that clearly very credulous person can probably be fairly easily convinced that the Jews faked the Holocaust and poison gentiles with Kosher food and all the other mad shit people believe about Jews.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:41 amby Kowani
SD_Film Artists wrote:I think they do it on reflex; the right-wing anti-semites doing it because Hitler did and the left-wing anti-semites doing it because of their equally arbitrary position* on the Israel-Palestine conflict.
*Palestine was never socialist and I doubt that they're pro-LGBT.
“Settler colonialism.”
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:41 amby LiberNovusAmericae
Antisemitism usually comes from the belief you are superior to the Jews. Many conspiracy theories are just excuses to persecute them, when the real reason is that the persecutor believes merely he or she is superior.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:42 amby The Emerald Legion
Nakena wrote:The Emerald Legion wrote:Meanwhile. Antisemites might as well be describing fucking magical vampires for all their views on Jewish people has to do with reality.
Like it's always some crazy supernatural thing.
Well because there is in many cases. Its a belief system.
Mind you're talking here about the radical, extreme forms.
Hitler, Celine and Icke tier shit.
I mean, yes. I'm more talking about more extreme forms. Like the person who once told me Hitler was trying to stop Armageddon because the Antichrist was destined to be Jewish.
Admittedly that guy was dying of liver cancer and rambled a lot at work. But still. It was such a weird thing. And then you get the references to them hypnotizing people and whatnot.
And then when I actually thought about it, every excuse I'd ever seen an Antisemite come out with was some sort of weird supernatural/occult gibberish.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:43 amby Free Arabian Nation
You gotta be crazy to believe the conspiracies, duh.
Jokes aside, I don't know. Could be a multitude of reasons, including just coincidence or the fact that antisemitism itself is a weird fringe ideology filled with weirdos.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:43 amby Agarntrop
The New California Republic wrote:Antisemitism is more often than not accompanied by strange conspiracy theories, which further adds to the general air of weirdness.
Indeed. Antisemitic remarks are also often used by far-leftists who accuse anything that puts the west in a favourable light as "Jewish propaganda".
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:44 amby Nakena
Ifreann wrote:I expect it's because anti-Semitism is so rooted in conspiracy theories. If flimsy evidence has convinced a person that Jews run Hollywood as a propaganda mill, that clearly very credulous person can probably be fairly easily convinced that the Jews faked the Holocaust and poison gentiles with Kosher food and all the other mad shit people believe about Jews.
The New California Republic wrote:Antisemitism is more often than not accompanied by strange conspiracy theories, which further adds to the general air of weirdness.
Extreme antisemitism is usually predated by conspiracy theories as entry drug until they take the final redpill of accepting and embracing Adolf as their savior and the International Jew as the true master mind behind the globalism/NWO/whatever.
I've seen this happening many times to people drifting up there. Sometimes they don't even know it. They getting so desperate in the search for answers and are on a wrong path because their idea of how the world works is wrong.
They believe theres some kind of malevolent force at work behind the scenes, but they can't pinpoint it down. Then at the end of this route, they turn to the one who does give them the answer and the explaination and that is when they find an ideological salvation because everything they ever believed suddenly makes sense.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:53 amby Ostroeuropa
The Emerald Legion wrote:Nakena wrote:Well because there is in many cases. Its a belief system.
Mind you're talking here about the radical, extreme forms.
Hitler, Celine and Icke tier shit.
I mean, yes. I'm more talking about more extreme forms. Like the person who once told me Hitler was trying to stop Armageddon because the Antichrist was destined to be Jewish.
Admittedly that guy was dying of liver cancer and rambled a lot at work. But still. It was such a weird thing. And then you get the references to them hypnotizing people and whatnot.
And then when I actually thought about it, every excuse I'd ever seen an Antisemite come out with was some sort of weird supernatural/occult gibberish.
White nationalists don't even necessarily go in for superiority. They might claim "Difference" or "Innate inability to get along because racism is inherent".
The weird shit they spout is them playing the audience mate. It is not meant to be true. The goal is "We need people to hate Jews" and then they blind watchmaker their way to it. Create a billion shitty ridiculous arguments that make people go wow he's nuts, but every now and then you'll get one that resonates with a larger number of people than usual.
Then the "clean shaven" neo-Nazi types who haven't outed themselves just start repeating that one over and over.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:53 amby The Sherpa Empire
Extreme white supremacists can get really fucking weird too if you press them about their beliefs. Milder ones just think being white is cool, but the hardcore ones have some screwy ideas about human biology.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:54 amby LiberNovusAmericae
Nouveau Quebecois wrote:Have you considered speaking with one?
What do you mean?
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:55 amby Alvecia
There was a study done a little while ago that showed people who believed in conspiracy theories are more likely to believe in other conspiracies.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:56 amby Agarntrop
Ostroeuropa wrote:The Emerald Legion wrote:I mean, yes. I'm more talking about more extreme forms. Like the person who once told me Hitler was trying to stop Armageddon because the Antichrist was destined to be Jewish.
Admittedly that guy was dying of liver cancer and rambled a lot at work. But still. It was such a weird thing. And then you get the references to them hypnotizing people and whatnot.
And then when I actually thought about it, every excuse I'd ever seen an Antisemite come out with was some sort of weird supernatural/occult gibberish.
White nationalists don't even necessarily go in for superiority. They might claim "Difference" or "Innate inability to get along because racism is inherent".
The weird shit they spout is them playing the audience mate. It is not meant to be true. The goal is "We need people to hate Jews" and then they blind watchmaker their way to it. Create a billion shitty ridiculous arguments that make people go wow he's nuts, but every now and then you'll get one that resonates with a larger number of people than usual.
Then the "clean shaven" neo-Nazi types who haven't outed themselves just start repeating that one over and over.
Most on the alt-right tend to believe in anti-semitic conspiracy theories. I.e. "(((Boris Johnson))) is still a (((traitor))) to Britian. He is Netanyahu's puppet."
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:56 amby The Sherpa Empire
Ostroeuropa wrote:It's not meant to be true. It's meant to take all circumstances they can, and weave a narrative that points blame at their enemies. The point is to gather people willing to repeat it (I.E, those who fancy a scrap or just dislike Jews vaguely or whatever) into one place, one mass, and then have them go mental.
This is why I compare them to feminists and how there is the same backward rationalizations that always end up with placing men in their targets.
Pot, meet kettle. Your first paragraph could easily be describing your own tactics that you use when dealing with gender issues.
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 amby Nouveau Quebecois
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Nouveau Quebecois wrote:Have you considered speaking with one?
What do you mean?
Nouveau Quebecois wrote:Have you considered speaking with one?
Posted:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:57 amby Dumb Ideologies
That's a complicated question and the answer depends on which group prone to antisemitic outbursts you're referring.
I regularly find myself in both left and right circles being apparently the most sympathetic person in the room to the perspective of the Israeli state and the organisations that represent the diaspora which, naturally, have quite strong links to Israel as the sole Jewish state.
But many of the rightists (though not the Hitler-sympathisers) are partly memeing and many of the leftists are well-intentioned fools who stumble into saying the wrong thing. The ironic memey lads and the serious people are often literally sharing the exact same bizarre memes, so...
One of the problems is that there's so many anti-Semitic tropes in circulation that it can be very difficult to criticise the Israeli state or its lobbyists in any way without accidentally brushing near one of them. And yet because said critics of the Israeli state will often have shared platforms with Palestinian speakers who often have...colourful opinions about "the Jew", it can be difficult to draw the lines between antisemites and those who have some sympathy for the Palestinians.
And then you end up with fights over whether people have been falsely accused of being antisemitic or whether the people accusing people of false accusations are playing into tropes about manipulative Jews and...very messy.
I just back out of the room when it comes up, I don't have the emotional intelligence to keep up.