Israel denies entry to Reps. Omar and Tlaib

[Vassenor]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

Who's said anything about Jews being bad? The State of Israel =/= the Jewish people.

[Fahran]

Omar said she wouldn't pledge dual loyalty. It isn't anti Semitic when it involves non jews as well as jews. I think many people in our government of many faiths have dual loyalty between this nation and israel

Yeah... that argument is pretty problematic for a lot of reasons.

If Trump accused Muslims of not being loyal citizens because they're more loyal to Islam than America, it'd be an issue in my book. Again, the issue isn't without criticism of Israel. There's plenty to criticize. It's with the rehashing of age-old Antisemitic canards that are still widely circulated and that cause the Jewish community a lot of harm. If Richard Spencer had said what Omar said, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

[Rojava Free State]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

I think Jews are people who deserve the same treatment as every one else. They have rights, but their rights end where others begins. And are you implying that the holocaust does give Jews the right to commit acts of violence against others, because I thought it was pretty clear it isn't ok

[Otira]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

???

[Rojava Free State]

Omar said she wouldn't pledge dual loyalty. It isn't anti Semitic when it involves non jews as well as jews. I think many people in our government of many faiths have dual loyalty between this nation and israel

Yeah... that argument is pretty problematic for a lot of reasons.

If Trump accused Muslims of not being loyal citizens because they're more loyal to Islam than America, it'd be an issue in my book. Again, the issue isn't without criticism of Israel. There's plenty to criticize. It's with the rehashing of age-old Antisemitic canards that are still widely circulated and that cause the Jewish community a lot of harm. If Richard Spencer had said what Omar said, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

It would be more like if I accused the Bush family of being more loyal to saudi Arabia than to america. I wouldn't be an Islama phobe for that

[Israeli Empiratic Commonwealth]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

Who's said anything about Jews being bad? The State of Israel =/= the Jewish people.

The state of Israel was created by and for the Jewish People. The State of Israel is supposed to represent the Jews as a State.

[Fahran]

Sounds more like you're looking for excuses to justify your own biases personally.

Do you think it's appropriate to use Antisemitic language? Because all I'm getting from this is that you do.

[Israeli Empiratic Commonwealth]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

I think Jews are people who deserve the same treatment as every one else. They have rights, but their rights end where others begins. And are you implying that the holocaust does give Jews the right to commit acts of violence against others, because I thought it was pretty clear it isn't ok

No it isnt, but I am saying the left believes stuff like that at times.

[Cappuccina]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

It's called pandering guy, the right, the left, everyone does it when it benefits them.

[Rojava Free State]

I'm pretty sure that Fahren is a Sephardic Jew and is looking at this from a historical perspective. He was probably raised with the stories of historical anti-Semitism and has come to believe that any non jew could be a potential threat, just like how a person raised in a household with klansmen parents may view any black man as a potential threat. To him, our criticism of Israel reminds him of historical prejudice of the past and he thinks without an israel, the Jewish people, his people, cannot survive.

Even if all that were true about the Jews needing israel, we as non jews have rights too. You can't shoot me just for being a brown man. I'm a human being. Those people in Palestine are humans too. They are men, women and kids. They're fathers, brothers, sisters, grandparents, cousins, aunts and uncles. Their homes should not be bulldozed to make way for Jewish settlers. Their children should not be treated as potential enemies and shot during a war in Gaza. White phosphorous shouldn't rain down on them. when I talk about their lives mattering, I'm not saying Jewish lives don't matter. They do matter, and so do the lives of Palestinians, and the Lebanese and Americans and Egyptians and everyone else.

Did... did you unironically compare a Jew to a Klansman on the basis of "assumption of threats" because uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

yeah I did. Anyone who thinks people don't deserve to live because of their race is equal in my eyes. Being a Jew isn't an excuse for being a racist

[Vassenor]

Sounds more like you're looking for excuses to justify your own biases personally.

Do you think it's appropriate to use Antisemitic language? Because all I'm getting from this is that you do.

Did you pull something reaching that hard?

[Rojava Free State]

I think Jews are people who deserve the same treatment as every one else. They have rights, but their rights end where others begins. And are you implying that the holocaust does give Jews the right to commit acts of violence against others, because I thought it was pretty clear it isn't ok

No it isnt, but I am saying the left believes stuff like that at times.

Depends who it is on the left

[Otira]

Who's said anything about Jews being bad? The State of Israel =/= the Jewish people.

The state of Israel was created by and for the Jewish People. The State of Israel is supposed to represent the Jews as a State.

And yet not all Jews agree with it. Get used to that.

[Otira]

Sounds more like you're looking for excuses to justify your own biases personally.

Do you think it's appropriate to use Antisemitic language? Because all I'm getting from this is that you do.

Are you seriously accusing Vass like that?

[Fahran]

Vass isn't criticizing the people involved because they're Jewish, but because they appear corrupt. Do you understand the difference?

I do.

Do you understand that the context matters here? "Israel is hypnotizing the world" is literally a recycled Antisemitic trope. "Zionists have dual loyalty" is literally a recycled Antisemitic trope. It's literally stuff far-right skinheads and Arab Anti-Semites say on a routine basis. You can criticize Israel without resorting to those, and it's pretty telling when you choose to resort to those.

[Fahran]

Do you think it's appropriate to use Antisemitic language? Because all I'm getting from this is that you do.

Are you seriously accusing Vass like that?

Yes. I am. Because she's giving Omar a pass on Antisemitic language by playing dumb.

[North German Realm]

Did... did you unironically compare a Jew to a Klansman on the basis of "assumption of threats" because uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

yeah I did. Anyone who thinks people don't deserve to live because of their race is equal in my eyes. Being a Jew isn't an excuse for being a racist

Except that's not what happened. You compared the legible fear that Sephardic Jews in general have of non-Jews (which has a historical basis in the persecution of Jews that is literally older than Rome as a polity and that has consistently happened in history up to 2019 AD) (and by proxy, Fahran in particular) to the Klansmen's "fear" of blacks. Neither Fahran (nor, I think, anyone else) brought up the so-called oppression Palestinians face. You just brought it up as an after-thought afterwards in a petty attempt for your justification of some of the hottest antisemitic takes I've heard on NS this last few weeks.

[Fahran]

Do you think it's appropriate to use Antisemitic language? Because all I'm getting from this is that you do.

Did you pull something reaching that hard?

Nope.

[Scomagia]

No, resorting to Antisemitic canards is Antisemitic. I routinely criticize Israel. I even gave an example of how to criticize Israel without being an Anti-Semite.

Sounds more like you're looking for excuses to justify your own biases personally.

What are you accusing them of, exactly? Racism?

[Otira]

Do you understand that the context matters here? "Israel is hypnotizing the world" is literally a recycled Antisemitic trope. "Zionists have dual loyalty" is literally a recycled Antisemitic trope. It's literally stuff far-right skinheads and Arab Anti-Semites say on a routine basis. You can criticize Israel without resorting to those, and it's pretty telling when you choose to resort to those.

Has anybody said the former quote here unironically? I recall it as being one Omar said years ago and apologized for.
And who are you quoting for the latter quote?

Vass hasn't said any of this stuff in criticizing Israel. You're just dragging in nonsense to prop up your failing argument.

[Scomagia]

Do you think it's appropriate to use Antisemitic language? Because all I'm getting from this is that you do.

Are you seriously accusing Vass like that?

Are you seriously asking that after what Vass implied about their "bias"?

[Myrensis]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

What if I told you it's entirely possible for the Holocaust to be terrible, the Nazi's to be horrible, and the nation state of Israel to behave badly, all at the same time?

Like, what kind of logic is this? "If you think genociding Jewish people is wrong, that means you can never criticize a Jewish person or group for any reason, or it's hypocrisy!"

[Cappuccina]

Vass isn't criticizing the people involved because they're Jewish, but because they appear corrupt. Do you understand the difference?

I do.

Do you understand that the context matters here? "Israel is hypnotizing the world" is literally a recycled Antisemitic trope. "Zionists have dual loyalty" is literally a recycled Antisemitic trope. It's literally stuff far-right skinheads and Arab Anti-Semites say on a routine basis. You can criticize Israel without resorting to those, and it's pretty telling when you choose to resort to those.

Not to be facetious, but Israel in particular makes themselves an easy target for those arguments, whether they're true or not is besides the point.

[Israeli Empiratic Commonwealth]

Sorry, is anyone else noticing a left wing hypocrisy here?
When it suits them, Jews are great and the holocaust was so bad and Nazis are all horrible etc etc
When it doesnt, just because Jews had the holocaust happen to them doesnt make this right etc etc

It's called pandering guy, the right, the left, everyone does it when it benefits them.

Not me, neither do my closest friends. I have all my political beliefs in a book. I would say the same thing if France denied President Trump's entry. Israel is a completely independent country, I dont even know how this is up for debate.

[Otira]

Are you seriously accusing Vass like that?

Are you seriously asking that after what Vass implied about their "bias"?

Are you seriously asking me that?