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Are Police for the most part good or bad?

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:22 pm
by Confederate Norway
I don't think there has been a thread for this so I decided to start one. So the question is are police officers for the most part bad or good. I think for the most part they are good. We need the Police to enforce the law or else the law would be pointless. I think anyone who is against the police is honestly just calling out for anarchy. A limited government does not mean we can not have police. There is a difference between limited government and anarchy.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:25 pm
by Nouveau Quebecois
What a stupid question. Are all immigrants bad? Are all conservatives bad? Are all religious-folk bad? None of these questions warrant yes or no answers. It's simply much more complicated then that. The question "are police good or bad" is bait of the highest order.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:31 pm
by Confederate Norway
Nouveau Quebecois wrote:What a stupid question. Are all immigrants bad? Are all conservatives bad? Are all religious-folk bad? None of these questions warrant yes or no answers. It's simply much more complicated then that. The question "are police good or bad" is bait of the highest order.

It's for the most part are they good or bad. I changed it to make that more clear.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:31 pm
by Liriena
The OP needs more meat on its bones, but I will say this: I think there is legitimacy to the position that, regardless of whether individual cops are good people on an intimate or interpersonal level, regardless of whether they individually act justly and selflessly, they are nevertheless actively involved in a system which is unjust and often cruel. They choose to dedicate themselves to enforcing laws, many of which do not serve the common good and even hurt decent people. Many of the problems we see in law enforcement are not just "a handful of bad apples", but systemic problems which are reinforced by an ideology which encourages a very dangerous "us vs them" attitude between police officers and the general public.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:34 pm
by Pacomia
I think the police are a good thing. Them having too much power is a bad thing. In general, though, I think police are a helpful and important part of society, and anyone who disagrees makes no sense.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:42 pm
by Kowani
Police in theory are not bad. In practice…That depends on the country. However, regardless of whether an officer is good as an individual, that means nothing as to the system they enforce.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:52 pm
by USS Monitor
Police serve a legitimate purpose, but that doesn't mean every department is well-run or every cop is a good fit for that job.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:53 pm
by Emulation White
Ok, I'll be the extreme opinion: I personally don't see a net benefit of law enforcement or prisons and want both to be abolished completely. Violence would rise (or not) relative to the characteristics of a given particular population. I consider law enforcement to be a eugenic/dysgenic practice that limits the gene pool and reduces cognitive variety. I am extremely sceptical of widespread anarchy in most cultures.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:53 pm
by Cassadaigua
It is really a shame that some people even need to ask this. That's all I have to say.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:05 pm
by Kernen
The police are not your friend. They do not exist to help you.

That doesn't mean society doesn't need police. It means society vests police with too many advantages.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:08 pm
by Scomagia
Police, like most groups, are primarily made up of decent, if misguided or imperfect, people with paragons and demons on the fringes.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:11 pm
by Selukia
Police=okay
Secret Police=NO

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:11 pm
by Kernen
Scomagia wrote:Police, like most groups, are primarily made up of decent, if misguided or imperfect, people with paragons and demons on the fringes.

Police as people are fine.

Police in their professional capacities should be treated with suspicion.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:13 pm
by Emulation White
Kernen wrote:The police are not your friend. They do not exist to help you.

That doesn't mean society doesn't need police. It means society vests police with too many advantages.


Let's get into this, does society need police? Why? All that happens is the death rate and violence rises marginally to moderately. Neither of those things are inherently negative. Something else that could be stated is that societies with high law enforcement and judiciality coincidentally cause larger scale, crippling and destructive violence: War, WMD's, etc.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:13 pm
by Scomagia
Kernen wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Police, like most groups, are primarily made up of decent, if misguided or imperfect, people with paragons and demons on the fringes.

Police as people are fine.

Police in their professional capacities should be treated with suspicion.

I'd say authority should be met with skepticism rather than suspicion per se.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:24 pm
by Kernen
Scomagia wrote:
Kernen wrote:Police as people are fine.

Police in their professional capacities should be treated with suspicion.

I'd say authority should be met with skepticism rather than suspicion per se.


Skepticism is doubt as to truth. Suspicion is doubt as to intent.

The police's veracity isn't in question so much as their intent. Suspicion is correct. Authority should be questioned, but police specifically shouldn't be trusted at all.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:24 pm
by Geneviev
Police should be good, but in some countries, they are part of a system that doesn't serve to protect people. In those cases, police are not good.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:37 pm
by Scomagia
Kernen wrote:
Scomagia wrote:I'd say authority should be met with skepticism rather than suspicion per se.


Skepticism is doubt as to truth. Suspicion is doubt as to intent.

The police's veracity isn't in question so much as their intent. Suspicion is correct. Authority should be questioned, but police specifically shouldn't be trusted at all.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skepticism

Pedantry aside, skepticism is correct. It is the position of doubt and of detached observation. That is what we need to have toward the police.

Suspicion is active distrust. That's no healthier than the reverse. You try doing your job when people arbitrarily assume that you are acting in bad faith. Hell, try doing anything when that is the assumption of you and your motives.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:39 pm
by LiberNovusAmericae
We need police, but we need police reform, and to end civil asset forfeiture abuse.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:49 pm
by Emulation White
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:We need police, but we need police reform, and to end civil asset forfeiture abuse.


I keep seeing this "we NEED police". Why do we need police? There is no demonstrable benefit to slightly lower rates of violence. The police only damage natural gene pools by eliminating individuals with different traits and destroying people's self-responsibility and autonomy. Law enforcement is possibly the most unnecessary apparatus ever created.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:51 pm
by Scomagia
Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:We need police, but we need police reform, and to end civil asset forfeiture abuse.


I keep seeing this "we NEED police". Why do we need police? There is no demonstrable benefit to slightly lower rates of violence. The police only damage natural gene pools by eliminating individuals with different traits and destroying people's self-responsibility and autonomy. Law enforcement is possibly the most unnecessary apparatus ever created.

[Citation needed]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:52 pm
by Ethel mermania
Most cops are good guys, the problem is because of the nature of the job the bad ones have a greatly outsized effect on the profession and how the profession is viewed by the public.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:54 pm
by The New California Republic
Good and bad. But the same can be said for any profession. There are good and bad doctors, there are good and bad chefs, there are good and bad writers, there are good and bad artists etc.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:55 pm
by Geneviev
Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:We need police, but we need police reform, and to end civil asset forfeiture abuse.


I keep seeing this "we NEED police". Why do we need police? There is no demonstrable benefit to slightly lower rates of violence. The police only damage natural gene pools by eliminating individuals with different traits and destroying people's self-responsibility and autonomy. Law enforcement is possibly the most unnecessary apparatus ever created.

Law enforcement is necessary to enforce the law. Without them, crime will actually increase and so will violence.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:00 pm
by Chestaan
The issue with police is that they can and will be used by the state to carry out repressive actions, often against protestors. I have no doubt that lots of good people join the police with the best of intentions, but inevitably they will be asked to commit immoral actions and uphold immoral laws.