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Are Police for the most part good or bad?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Are Police good or bad?

For the most part good
95
81%
For the most part bad
22
19%
 
Total votes : 117

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:49 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I suspect I'm the inspiration for this thread, so you already know what I think: bad. Police are around to deprive you of your rights and to enforce the states view on the public. You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

You there! Stop! I'm need to see your sources! :p

But seriously, I would like to see some sources. That's an awfully strong assertion to give without evidence.

Which part? Why people join the police force or the function of it?

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:49 pm

Can we all not indulge the scientific racism derail? Thanks.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:50 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm very libertarian, but some type of force must exist to capture and bring criminals to justice.

Why?

Because letting people go around harming others without punishment will not end well?
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Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:50 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Scomagia wrote:You there! Stop! I'm need to see your sources! :p

But seriously, I would like to see some sources. That's an awfully strong assertion to give without evidence.

Which part? Why people join the police force or the function of it?

The bolded bit.
[Insert bizarre political diatribe here]
MandatoryVirtueSignaling

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Zhe Furher of Memes
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Founded: Aug 13, 2019
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Postby Zhe Furher of Memes » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:50 pm

The police are good for the most part, unless you live in Oakland.

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Confederate Norway
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Postby Confederate Norway » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:51 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm very libertarian, but some type of force must exist to capture and bring criminals to justice.

Why?

It's not just the justice but when police capture them they are off the streets and cannot commit crimes.

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:51 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm very libertarian, but some type of force must exist to capture and bring criminals to justice.

Why?

Because then criminals will be free to violate your rights, and not be punished for doing so.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:53 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Which part? Why people join the police force or the function of it?

The bolded bit.

Sorry, not your fault at all, but I can't see what's bolded.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:53 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Why?

Because then criminals will be free to violate your rights, and not be punished for doing so.

But why can't victims just take matters into their own hands?

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Bluelight-R006
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Founded: Mar 31, 2017
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Postby Bluelight-R006 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:53 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I'm very libertarian, but some type of force must exist to capture and bring criminals to justice.

Why?

Because justice needs to be served as a representative to the law and for the people. The police can do that, at least better than most ordinary civilians and bystanders nowadays.

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Ancapto
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Founded: Dec 06, 2018
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Postby Ancapto » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:54 pm

It depends. I don't like police being in the hands of the government but I do think it would be a good idea if police were privatized.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Bluelight-R006 wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Why?

Because justice needs to be served as a representative to the law and for the people. The police can do that, at least better than most ordinary civilians and bystanders nowadays.

That raises the question of whether ordinary civillians would be better prepared if the police weren't around to provide a safety net.

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Emulation White
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Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Kernen wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
Honestly, scientific ramifications of societal initives is not low hanging fruit. Take responsibility for not being able to havd the discussion you want, that is on you and you alone.


Your arguments are debunked supremacist dog whistling. That is low hanging fruit.


Nothing is debunked, you are merely following an idealogy without examining the evidence for yourself, then would you be honest with said evidence? Who knows? And if calling someone a dog whistling supremacist isn't low hanging fruit I don't know what is. Instead I'm fighting for the rights of hated and disriminated groups of humans. Look, I'm talking on like 5 people at once, get on my level.

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Scomagia wrote:The bolded bit.

Sorry, not your fault at all, but I can't see what's bolded.

Why not? Are you blind and using text to speech? Honest question.

And here you go, this is the bit I would like to see evidence for:
You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.
[Insert bizarre political diatribe here]
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Bluelight-R006
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Postby Bluelight-R006 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:56 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Because then criminals will be free to violate your rights, and not be punished for doing so.

But why can't victims just take matters into their own hands?

Because victims themselves don’t have a group of detectives to find the suspect? Suspects can be easy to find sometimes, but not all of the times. Say, someone stole your wallet and you happen to find the suspect. But you’re not a representative of the law—who are they to give it back?
Last edited by Bluelight-R006 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:57 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Because then criminals will be free to violate your rights, and not be punished for doing so.

But why can't victims just take matters into their own hands?

Because letting untrained civilians go around attacking whoever they think wronged them is an awful idea.
Hello I am Andsed welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Posts: 12382
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:57 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Sorry, not your fault at all, but I can't see what's bolded.

Why not? Are you blind and using text to speech? Honest question.

And here you go, this is the bit I would like to see evidence for:
You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

I am indeed.

I did actually see an anonymous survey in some US city that came to that rather disturbing conclusion, I'll find it for you.

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:57 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Because then criminals will be free to violate your rights, and not be punished for doing so.

But why can't victims just take matters into their own hands?

Because not everyone can.

Ancapto wrote:It depends. I don't like police being in the hands of the government but I do think it would be a good idea if police were privatized.

They need to be reformed. Just because they're private does not mean they'll be incapable of abusing people. I also don't think justice should be rendered out of reach because someone cannot afford to hire a private company to protect them.
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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:57 pm

Emulation White wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Your arguments are debunked supremacist dog whistling. That is low hanging fruit.


Nothing is debunked, you are merely following an idealogy without examining the evidence for yourself, then would you be honest with said evidence? Who knows? And if calling someone a dog whistling supremacist isn't low hanging fruit I don't know what is. Instead I'm fighting for the rights of hated and disriminated groups of humans. Look, I'm talking on like 5 people at once, get on my level.

Uh huh.

I'm wearing my nice wingtips. I don't want gutter gunk on them.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

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Bluelight-R006
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Founded: Mar 31, 2017
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Postby Bluelight-R006 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:57 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Bluelight-R006 wrote:Because justice needs to be served as a representative to the law and for the people. The police can do that, at least better than most ordinary civilians and bystanders nowadays.

That raises the question of whether ordinary civillians would be better prepared if the police weren't around to provide a safety net.

And you’d think that work. Perhaps for half of the community, civilians would care about taking up necessary crime prevention skills. But another half of the community would go on with their daily lives.

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Nazi Juggalos
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Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nazi Juggalos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:58 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Because then criminals will be free to violate your rights, and not be punished for doing so.

But why can't victims just take matters into their own hands?


It would lead to unchecked violence as well as possible clashes between politically opposed groups, protests could turn violent, etc.

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Nazi Juggalos
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Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nazi Juggalos » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:58 pm

Kernen wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
Nothing is debunked, you are merely following an idealogy without examining the evidence for yourself, then would you be honest with said evidence? Who knows? And if calling someone a dog whistling supremacist isn't low hanging fruit I don't know what is. Instead I'm fighting for the rights of hated and disriminated groups of humans. Look, I'm talking on like 5 people at once, get on my level.

Uh huh.

I'm wearing my nice wingtips. I don't want gutter gunk on them.


Too late for that.

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Emulation White
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Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:59 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
A scientifically erroneous conclusion from an arbitrary moral perspective. So my counter is why do need a government financed apparatus for that? You could just find like minded individuals like yourself to enforce your morality if you are so committed to virulent hatred of naturally occuring types of humans.

1. It's not "natural," as you claim.
2. Preventing crime protects people, which is the moral thing to do. If it is done by the government, there will be actual order to the enforcement.


Do you believe in killing or incarcerating bears, wolves, etc just because they're predators? That is my ethical stance in people. I see the beauty in many types of life and human predators are no exception. Everyone has something to give when given the chance.

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Free Arabian Nation
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:59 pm

Depends on the area. In my area, they are usually very kind and helpful. Very few cases of brutality, corruption, etc, but that does come up from time to time (That's not an issue specifically in my region). Though, I presume you're not talking about the Omani Police and are talking about them in general. To which, I say this.

Although a perfect society would not need them, we are most certainly not a perfect society. No society is. Governments need people to enforce their laws and mandating the military to inspect everything from mass-murder to some farmer who claims Aasim pissed on livestock again would be expensive, tedious, and overall less effective than a branch of the government mandated to enforce laws internally.

The alternative is vigilantism (which is not as great as the comic books make it out to be), military rule, or some third option that could only exist in the aforementioned perfect society. So, yes, the police are good. They can be bad, but the alternative is far worse.
Last edited by Free Arabian Nation on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:00 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Why not? Are you blind and using text to speech? Honest question.

And here you go, this is the bit I would like to see evidence for:

I am indeed.

I did actually see an anonymous survey in some US city that came to that rather disturbing conclusion, I'll find it for you.

I see. I think I knew that already and forgot. Either that or there's another blind person on NSG.

I'll wait. I will say in advance, though, that one anonymous survey from one city isn't much in the way of evidence.
[Insert bizarre political diatribe here]
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