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Are Police for the most part good or bad?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Are Police good or bad?

For the most part good
95
81%
For the most part bad
22
19%
 
Total votes : 117

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Xmara
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Founded: Mar 31, 2014
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Xmara » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:16 pm

I’ll join back in this argument later. I’m on mobile and my internet connection is crap.
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Emulation White
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Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:18 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
Law enforcement is inherently biased, it is a moral precedent applied universally, that is bias against those it punishes. Societies are capable of creating order without a third party, this is demonstrable by pre-law enforcement communities. We don't need to stop people from harming others on a systematic macro scale. There is no benefit to punishing as many "criminals" as we can; that is a waste of time, resources and genetic material. Societies can stabilize themselves, generally speaking.


In the absence of a justice system, that criminal is not going to get rehabbed, he is going to get killed.


I assume this an ethical point, I typically am not one to debate ethics and morals, but I appreciate the engagement so I will make an effort, bear with me. Hmm, but for those who are sent to prison, it further alienates them from society and I can confidently tell you prison hardens some types, helps them with networking and learning new skills applicable to their lifestyle. It also very difficult on the loved ones of the person. Ethically, I see the cycle as oscillating suffering between all parties involved, not to mention the tax payer who is financing the whole theatre of it.

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LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 4510
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:18 pm

Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:We need police, but we need police reform, and to end civil asset forfeiture abuse.


I keep seeing this "we NEED police". Why do we need police? There is no demonstrable benefit to slightly lower rates of violence. The police only damage natural gene pools by eliminating individuals with different traits and destroying people's self-responsibility and autonomy. Law enforcement is possibly the most unnecessary apparatus ever created.

Well, people deserve a basic form of protection against violent scumbags. If the gene pool suffers (and it probably won't), so be it.
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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:21 pm

Xmara wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
It is absolutely not, please look this over if you feel inclined and we will go from there.

https://thealternativehypothesis.org/in ... evolution/

Oh joy, a “race realist” site.


I implore you to not be an idealogical soldier and instead be as detached and objective whilst analyzing the information as possible, please.

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Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:25 pm

The eugenics rant has really put a damper on what would otherwise be a fascinating conversation about individual guarantees of liberty and policing.
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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:28 pm

Kowani wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
Yes, I am. It is a detriment. All that money could be put into education, economic development, etc. "Crime" also solves itself, the most anti-social types would most likely keep decreasing their presence in the gene pool because of their behavior. Whereas the rest would be diluted by being able to mix freely with "non-criminal" type people, thus benefiting society by giving birth to a population with a wider and more dynamic cognitive and genetic spectrum. Something biology loves is natural diversity, which is why evolution always seeks to have as much genetic variety in given populations as possible.

You know, in Sicily after WWII, the Mafia had a self propagating effect.


I'm not against that. My position isn't that my theory would eliminate "crime". If anything I just want to blur the lines, so we can have more diversity of physical bodies (criminals have more testosterone and less inclined to sexual disfunction as a result) and more cognitive diversity (more dynamic people who have the ability to see the world through a wider spectrum)

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Jack Thomas Lang
Diplomat
 
Posts: 946
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:30 pm

Police are good, yes. If you don't have the political capital to change poverty or other reasons leading to crime, the more police, the better.
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Kowani
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12981
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:31 pm

Emulation White wrote:
Kowani wrote:You know, in Sicily after WWII, the Mafia had a self propagating effect.


I'm not against that. My position isn't that my theory would eliminate "crime". If anything I just want to blur the lines, so we can have more diversity of physical bodies (criminals have more testosterone and less inclined to sexual disfunction as a result) and more cognitive diversity (more dynamic people who have the ability to see the world through a wider spectrum)

Ignoring the point that neither cognitive diversity nor physical diversity are inherently good for a moment, that’s a terrible position for a society.
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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
I keep seeing this "we NEED police". Why do we need police? There is no demonstrable benefit to slightly lower rates of violence. The police only damage natural gene pools by eliminating individuals with different traits and destroying people's self-responsibility and autonomy. Law enforcement is possibly the most unnecessary apparatus ever created.

Well, people deserve a basic form of protection against violent scumbags. If the gene pool suffers (and it probably won't), so be it.


A scientifically erroneous conclusion from an arbitrary moral perspective. So my counter is why do need a government financed apparatus for that? You could just find like minded individuals like yourself to enforce your morality if you are so committed to virulent hatred of naturally occuring types of humans.

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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:34 pm

Kernen wrote:The eugenics rant has really put a damper on what would otherwise be a fascinating conversation about individual guarantees of liberty and policing.


Nobody is inhibiting that discussion, do not blame me or anyone else for that.

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Scomagia
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Posts: 18476
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:36 pm

Kernen wrote:The eugenics rant has really put a damper on what would otherwise be a fascinating conversation about individual guarantees of liberty and policing.

Yup. It's very sad.

Incidentally, for anyone who is curious, here's a Reddit post with a good takedown of the man behind that garbage site: https://www.reddit.com/r/badscience/com ... =post_body

Can we get back to police, now?
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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:37 pm

Kowani wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
I'm not against that. My position isn't that my theory would eliminate "crime". If anything I just want to blur the lines, so we can have more diversity of physical bodies (criminals have more testosterone and less inclined to sexual disfunction as a result) and more cognitive diversity (more dynamic people who have the ability to see the world through a wider spectrum)

Ignoring the point that neither cognitive diversity nor physical diversity are inherently good for a moment, that’s a terrible position for a society.


That is objectively incorrect, please watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfRN0KihOU

It is not terrible, it is only terrible to you.

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Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:38 pm

Emulation White wrote:
Kernen wrote:The eugenics rant has really put a damper on what would otherwise be a fascinating conversation about individual guarantees of liberty and policing.


Nobody is inhibiting that discussion, do not blame me or anyone else for that.


People go after the low hanging fruit. Your arguments are scraping the leaf litter. You are to blame.
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Andsed
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6115
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:39 pm

Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Well, people deserve a basic form of protection against violent scumbags. If the gene pool suffers (and it probably won't), so be it.


A scientifically erroneous conclusion from an arbitrary moral perspective. So my counter is why do need a government financed apparatus for that? You could just find like minded individuals like yourself to enforce your morality if you are so committed to virulent hatred of naturally occuring types of humans.

1, Vigilante justice is not a good idea despite what comics say.

2. Are you trying to suggest that it is okay for people to murder and steal and generally harm others? Because it seems like you are.
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Kowani
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12981
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:41 pm

Emulation White wrote:
Kowani wrote:Ignoring the point that neither cognitive diversity nor physical diversity are inherently good for a moment, that’s a terrible position for a society.


That is objectively incorrect, please watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfRN0KihOU

It is not terrible, it is only terrible to you.

What I’m getting is you committing the naturalistic fallacy.
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Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:41 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Kernen wrote:The eugenics rant has really put a damper on what would otherwise be a fascinating conversation about individual guarantees of liberty and policing.

Yup. It's very sad.

Incidentally, for anyone who is curious, here's a Reddit post with a good takedown of the man behind that garbage site: https://www.reddit.com/r/badscience/com ... =post_body

Can we get back to police, now?


Not a takedown at all. Anthropologists are not geneticists, along with other glaring errors in this smear. Too much idealogy and intellectual cowardice from you.

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Geneviev
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9929
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:42 pm

Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Well, people deserve a basic form of protection against violent scumbags. If the gene pool suffers (and it probably won't), so be it.


A scientifically erroneous conclusion from an arbitrary moral perspective. So my counter is why do need a government financed apparatus for that? You could just find like minded individuals like yourself to enforce your morality if you are so committed to virulent hatred of naturally occuring types of humans.

1. It's not "natural," as you claim.
2. Preventing crime protects people, which is the moral thing to do. If it is done by the government, there will be actual order to the enforcement.
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LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 4510
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Well, people deserve a basic form of protection against violent scumbags. If the gene pool suffers (and it probably won't), so be it.


A scientifically erroneous conclusion from an arbitrary moral perspective. So my counter is why do need a government financed apparatus for that? You could just find like minded individuals like yourself to enforce your morality if you are so committed to virulent hatred of naturally occuring types of humans.

My group would have insufficient funding to investigate crimes and punish criminals. What would I even do with captured criminals? Not every crime is worthy of a death sentence.
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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:44 pm

Kernen wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
Nobody is inhibiting that discussion, do not blame me or anyone else for that.


People go after the low hanging fruit. Your arguments are scraping the leaf litter. You are to blame.


Honestly, scientific ramifications of societal initives is not low hanging fruit. Take responsibility for not being able to havd the discussion you want, that is on you and you alone.

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Greater vakolicci haven
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12382
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:45 pm

I suspect I'm the inspiration for this thread, so you already know what I think: bad. Police are around to deprive you of your rights and to enforce the states view on the public. You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

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LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 4510
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:47 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I suspect I'm the inspiration for this thread, so you already know what I think: bad. Police are around to deprive you of your rights and to enforce the states view on the public. You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

I'm very libertarian, but some type of force must exist to capture and bring criminals to justice.
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Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:47 pm

Emulation White wrote:
Kernen wrote:
People go after the low hanging fruit. Your arguments are scraping the leaf litter. You are to blame.


Honestly, scientific ramifications of societal initives is not low hanging fruit. Take responsibility for not being able to havd the discussion you want, that is on you and you alone.


Your arguments are debunked supremacist dog whistling. That is low hanging fruit.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Posts: 12382
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:48 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I suspect I'm the inspiration for this thread, so you already know what I think: bad. Police are around to deprive you of your rights and to enforce the states view on the public. You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

I'm very libertarian, but some type of force must exist to capture and bring criminals to justice.

Why?

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Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18476
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:49 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I suspect I'm the inspiration for this thread, so you already know what I think: bad. Police are around to deprive you of your rights and to enforce the states view on the public. You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

You there! Stop! I need to see your sources! :p

But seriously, I would like to see some sources. That's an awfully strong assertion to give without evidence.
Last edited by Scomagia on Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Emulation White
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Posts: 78
Founded: May 05, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:49 pm

Kowani wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
That is objectively incorrect, please watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOfRN0KihOU

It is not terrible, it is only terrible to you.

What I’m getting is you committing the naturalistic fallacy.


No, my intention is not to revere any sort of abstract "natural order", it is to analyze the lessons evolution gives divorced from human arrogance, bias and hubris and weigh the cost and benefit of them.

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