NATION

PASSWORD

Are Police for the most part good or bad?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Are Police good or bad?

For the most part good
95
81%
For the most part bad
22
19%
 
Total votes : 117

User avatar
Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:07 am

Alvecia wrote:
Kernen wrote:
It isn't. Police will use what you say against you, and will attempt to mislead you, trick you, and put words into your mouth. If the police are talking to you, it’s because they suspect you have committed a crime. If they have detained you, it’s because they already have enough evidence to arrest you and they want to see if you will admit it and thus, give them an even stronger case against you. If they have evidence to arrest you for a crime, they will. If they don’t, they won’t. It’s as simple as that. Talking to them or not talking to them won’t make a difference! No one has ever “talked his way out of” an arrest. If the police have enough evidence to make an arrest, they will.

If you deny that you committed the crime, they will not believe you. They already have evidence suggesting that you committed the crime. They’ll assume you’re just doing what every criminal does in denying the offense. It will not prevent you from getting arrested. This is completely contrary to popular belief.

And even if you’re innocent, an innocent person can still make some assumption about a fact or state some detail about the case they overheard on the way to the police station, and the police will assume that they only way the suspect could have known that fact or that detail was if he was, in fact, guilty.

Example: Suppose a police officer is questioning a suspect about a homicide. He says that the victim died in a gangland style execution. The suspect makes the statement “I don’t know who killed the victim. I’ve never owned a gun in my life. I don’t even like guns.” On it’s face, there’s nothing incriminating about that statement. But suppose at trial, the prosecutor asks the police officer if anything about that statement surprised him. The police officer answers “Yes, it surprised me when the suspect mentioned a gun, because I had never mentioned a gun before that. I merely told him that I was investigating a homicide.”

When the officer said there has been a homicide, the suspect may have simply assumed that the killing was done with a gun. Or the suspect may have overheard in the police station some other officer talk about the fact that it was a shooting. But if the officer taking the statement had never mentioned a gun or a shooting, and the suspect makes the statement that he had never owned a gun, you give the prosecution the opportunity to create some high drama and has made a statement about a gun because he is, in fact, the murderer. And as the murderer, he knew that a gun was used.

This is just one of many, many reasons why talking to the police will never help you. Even if you're guilty and want to confess, talking to the police won't help you.

My bad. It's narrow minded and presumptuous


Ah, yes. Because throwing around personal jabs is defeating points backed up by criminal practice. Such success. Many wow.

Ethel mermania wrote:That's if you are suspected of a crime, reporting one is a different matter

Reporting a crime for which you are not the victim is just a really good way attract suspicion. Even then, the police will show up hours later and take notes. You're better off calling your insurance company if you're the victim of a crime than the police.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

User avatar
Alvecia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18298
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:10 am

Kernen wrote:
Alvecia wrote:My bad. It's narrow minded and presumptuous


Ah, yes. Because throwing around personal jabs is defeating points backed up by criminal practice. Such success. Many wow.

That'll happen when you identify your argument as yourself.
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

User avatar
Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:14 am

Alvecia wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Ah, yes. Because throwing around personal jabs is defeating points backed up by criminal practice. Such success. Many wow.

That'll happen when you identify your argument as yourself.


Most of it comes from my criminal procedure professor, who was a criminal defense attorney for...ever? But if you're ever interested in a law professor's take on it, I can send you a link to a lecture I attended once on the subject.

Even when police are acting professional and honest, they're working adversely to your own interests and should be given as little to work with as possible.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 96379
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:32 am

Kernen wrote:
Alvecia wrote:My bad. It's narrow minded and presumptuous


Ah, yes. Because throwing around personal jabs is defeating points backed up by criminal practice. Such success. Many wow.

Ethel mermania wrote:That's if you are suspected of a crime, reporting one is a different matter

Reporting a crime for which you are not the victim is just a really good way attract suspicion. Even then, the police will show up hours later and take notes. You're better off calling your insurance company if you're the victim of a crime than the police.

Well if I see a crime I am still reporting it.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:35 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Ah, yes. Because throwing around personal jabs is defeating points backed up by criminal practice. Such success. Many wow.


Reporting a crime for which you are not the victim is just a really good way attract suspicion. Even then, the police will show up hours later and take notes. You're better off calling your insurance company if you're the victim of a crime than the police.

Well if I see a crime I am still reporting it.


Hey man, its your life to gamble with. Me? I never see anything.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 100223
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:35 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Ah, yes. Because throwing around personal jabs is defeating points backed up by criminal practice. Such success. Many wow.


Reporting a crime for which you are not the victim is just a really good way attract suspicion. Even then, the police will show up hours later and take notes. You're better off calling your insurance company if you're the victim of a crime than the police.

Well if I see a crime I am still reporting it.

Besides, your insurance agent is going to ask, "Did you report it to the police?" And yes, if I see a crime, I'm reporting it.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

User avatar
LiberNovusAmericae
Senator
 
Posts: 4510
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:52 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I suspect I'm the inspiration for this thread, so you already know what I think: bad. Police are around to deprive you of your rights and to enforce the states view on the public. You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

I am sure some do, but to assume all do is completely baseless.

We can purge the bad apples without getting rid of the whole concept.
[Insert Signature Here]

User avatar
Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 96379
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:55 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Well if I see a crime I am still reporting it.

Besides, your insurance agent is going to ask, "Did you report it to the police?" And yes, if I see a crime, I'm reporting it.

Indeed, but in kernen's defense, he is not the first attorney I have chatted with that made the same point.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

User avatar
Serbia-Macedonia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 47
Founded: Jul 13, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Serbia-Macedonia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:58 am

My dad was a police officer and he got killed in the line of duty when I was 13.


He was shot by a member or El Chapo's drug string.

Anyone who says police are a bad thing to have, your a sick and evil person. My dad loved his job, and he wouldn't change anything.


RIP Dad

1961 - 2009
Last edited by Serbia-Macedonia on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
AMERICAN NATIONALIST AND PROUD
♂♀Copy and Paste this in your sig if you know there are 2 genders and didn't fail biology♂♀

.*+ Islam is not a religion of peace. .*+

MAGA Trump 2020

AOC and Bernie are commies

I love Reagan, Lincoln, and Trump

I think terrorists burned down Notre Dame just like Hillary did Beghazi


I DO NOT use NS Stats
Call me a fascist, see if I care you motherfucker
Never give up, because your capable of anything you set your mind to.
Try me and you'll see who your dealing with.

Accidental Policies: Year round school, No Courts, No Elections, Sex Education, Devolution

Oh yeah, and SUBSCRIBE TO OVERSIMPLIFIED

User avatar
Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:18 am

Serbia-Macedonia wrote:My dad was a police officer and he got killed in the line of duty when I was 13.


He was shot by a member or El Chapo's drug string.

Anyone who says police are a bad thing to have, your a sick and evil person. My dad loved his job, and he wouldn't change anything.


RIP Dad

1961 - 2009


Sick? No. Evil? In the traditional sense, yes.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18477
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:20 pm

Kernen wrote:
Scomagia wrote:It should be police and civilians, rather than police over civilians. There's no need for antagonism as the interests are the same, at least in principle. The police need some degree of authority in order to conduct investigations and arrests but the conditions of their authority should be as narrow as is needed to enforce the rule of law. Over broad authority or opacity in decision making lead to public distrust, unneeded violence, and ultimately more difficulty enforcing the law. So, police and civilians should be complementary with each aiding the other and engaging in open, civil dialogue.


Talking to police will never, ever help you. It can only hurt. Nobody should cooperate with them for their own benefit.

When under suspicion of a crime, yes. But I was not talking about that. I thought it was obvious but I'll clarify: I was meaning dialogue in the sense of The People talking with The Police, vis a vis civilian commissions and town meetings, and not individuals talking to individual police when being questioned.
[Insert bizarre political diatribe here]
MandatoryVirtueSignaling

User avatar
-Ocelot-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1481
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby -Ocelot- » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Police officers receive training that's designed to make them think of other people as lesser humans. To put it plainly, they are capable of cracking the skull of a 15 year old girl without feeling any remorse if orders say so, and this is all that matters. They are also good at planting drugs on protesters, pretending they are protesters to cause havoc, beating up people they dislike during or after the arrest, targeting specific social groups they dislike etc.

So while you can argue that the police does crack down on burglars, thieves, scammers, killers etc, don't forget that you are no different to these criminals, if circumstances change.

The only entities the police is designed to protect are corporations. Everyone else is fair game, as long as orders say so.
Post tenebras lux


⭐No such thing as too much yellow⭐

User avatar
Kernen
Senator
 
Posts: 4382
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:58 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Kernen wrote:
Talking to police will never, ever help you. It can only hurt. Nobody should cooperate with them for their own benefit.

When under suspicion of a crime, yes. But I was not talking about that. I thought it was obvious but I'll clarify: I was meaning dialogue in the sense of The People talking with The Police, vis a vis civilian commissions and town meetings, and not individuals talking to individual police when being questioned.

Ah, see that's a different story.
From the throne of Khan Juk i'Behemoti, Juk Who-Is-The-Strength-of-the-Behemoth, Supreme Khan of the Ogres of Kernen. May the Khan ever drink the blood of his enemies!

User avatar
New Bremerton
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 402
Founded: Jul 20, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Bremerton » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:30 am

Depends on the country. The Hong Kong Police Force is very, very bad. The Royal Malaysian Police are mostly bad. I'd expect German, British or Japanese police to be mostly good. U.S. police are kind of in the middle for me.

User avatar
Vallermoore
Senator
 
Posts: 3946
Founded: Mar 27, 2011
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Vallermoore » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:20 pm

In the UK mainly good-but as with all groups of people there are a few bad ones. And the occasional bad thing done by police is dwarfed by the problems there would be without them, when there would be either lawlessness or lynch law.

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Minister
 
Posts: 3261
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:25 pm

Vallermoore wrote:In the UK mainly good-but as with all groups of people there are a few bad ones. And the occasional bad thing done by police is dwarfed by the problems there would be without them, when there would be either lawlessness or lynch law.


No point in having a police force if they themselves operate like a gang. Remember the LAPD C.R.A.S.H. Rampart scandal?.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property, and sexy brown women

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Half Lebanese, Half Puerto Rican. All american. Not Kurdish at all.

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Diplomat
 
Posts: 648
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:28 pm

I have had only one experience with police. It was negative (although we knew who broke in, they refused to do anything). Not all are bad and not all are good, like virtually all groups.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

User avatar
The Serbian Empire
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58003
Founded: Apr 18, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Serbian Empire » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:28 pm

In theory, they are good as an idea. In actuality, the position attracts racists and those who desire to kill or maim others.
LOVEWHOYOUARE~ WOMAN
Level 12 Myrmidon, Level ⑨ Tsundere, Level ✿ Hold My Flower
Bad Idea Purveyor
8 Values: https://8values.github.io/results.html?e=56.1&d=70.2&g=86.5&s=91.9
Political Compass: Economic -10.00 Authoritarian: -9.13
TG for Facebook if you want to friend me
Marissa, Goddess of Stratospheric Reach
preferred pronouns: Female ones
Primarily lesbian, but pansexual in nature

User avatar
Herador
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6295
Founded: Mar 08, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Herador » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:31 pm

It depends on where you are and what color you are, in my experience.
"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind"

I'll yeet myself into your life and dab on your dreams, nerd.

These are tough times to be a dreamer.

User avatar
Page
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9958
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Page » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:41 am

A certain amount of cops are power hungry thugs, a certain number are well-intentioned people who want to do good, and a certain number are a deep shade of gray. What percentage of each group, that's impossible to say.

But I do think there are more bad cops than implied by the phrase 'a few bad apples'.
I am a libertarian socialist.
I am ungovernable.
I owe no allegiance to any state.
I am bound to my conscience, not to the law.
I stand for liberty, justice, and peace.

User avatar
Wayneactia
Envoy
 
Posts: 257
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Wayneactia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:47 am

USS Monitor wrote:Police serve a legitimate purpose, but that doesn't mean every department is well-run or every cop is a good fit for that job.


Give the boat and up vote please? This may be the best answer I have heard yet when it comes to law enforcement.

User avatar
Scomagia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18477
Founded: Apr 14, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Scomagia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:14 am

Kernen wrote:
Scomagia wrote:When under suspicion of a crime, yes. But I was not talking about that. I thought it was obvious but I'll clarify: I was meaning dialogue in the sense of The People talking with The Police, vis a vis civilian commissions and town meetings, and not individuals talking to individual police when being questioned.

Ah, see that's a different story.

Yeah, I'm firmly in the "shut up and lawyer up" camp of dealing with law enforcement questioning.
[Insert bizarre political diatribe here]
MandatoryVirtueSignaling

User avatar
Paul cam
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Aug 16, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Paul cam » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:52 pm

Policemen do a good job every day. I even wanted to work as a policeman. Right now I am in between jobs and I am thinking of changing careers. Police may be a good start for a job seeker. I think I will upload my resume at Bazaraki and wait or the police office offers for an interview. I am sure I have all the skills.

User avatar
The Huskar Social Union
Post Czar
 
Posts: 39485
Founded: Apr 04, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:12 pm

Good for the Most part. You need Police to help maintain law and order in society, but some of them are cunts, heavily corrupt and go on power trips to abuse people and that kind of stuff should be tackled, but for the most part, i'd say they are a positive thing to have.
Scary Spooky Leftist #19879417 An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Loyal to Dragonstone and the King in the Narrow Sea

Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

User avatar
Arlenton
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8796
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:12 pm

Probably mostly good, but plenty of bad too.

Local militias led by a democratically elected sheriff are a better alternative.
Last edited by Arlenton on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Geneviev, Hanafuridake, Juristonia, Kowani, Mexican Liberation, Nanatsu no Tsuki, Pacomia, Saiwania, San Lumen, Scomagia, Shrillland, Tuthina, United States of Devonta, Yisrae1

Advertisement

Remove ads