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Are Police for the most part good or bad?

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Are Police good or bad?

For the most part good
95
81%
For the most part bad
22
19%
 
Total votes : 117

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:01 pm

Bluelight-R006 wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:That raises the question of whether ordinary civillians would be better prepared if the police weren't around to provide a safety net.

And you’d think that work. Perhaps for half of the community, civilians would care about taking up necessary crime prevention skills. But another half of the community would go on with their daily lives.

And the other half have themselves to blame.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:01 pm

Emulation White wrote:
Geneviev wrote:1. It's not "natural," as you claim.
2. Preventing crime protects people, which is the moral thing to do. If it is done by the government, there will be actual order to the enforcement.


Do you believe in killing or incarcerating bears, wolves, etc just because they're predators? That is my ethical stance in people. I see the beauty in many types of life and human predators are no exception. Everyone has something to give when given the chance.

Animals that are predators are naturally predators. Humans are not naturally criminals. The majority of humans are not criminals. The existence of police is necessary to protect the majority from them.
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Emulation White
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Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:01 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
A scientifically erroneous conclusion from an arbitrary moral perspective. So my counter is why do need a government financed apparatus for that? You could just find like minded individuals like yourself to enforce your morality if you are so committed to virulent hatred of naturally occuring types of humans.

My group would have insufficient funding to investigate crimes and punish criminals. What would I even do with captured criminals? Not every crime is worthy of a death sentence.


They go free, life moves on. The circle of life simply keeps turning.

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:03 pm

Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:My group would have insufficient funding to investigate crimes and punish criminals. What would I even do with captured criminals? Not every crime is worthy of a death sentence.


They go free, life moves on. The circle of life simply keeps turning.

They should pay somehow for their crimes.
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Bluelight-R006
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Postby Bluelight-R006 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:04 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Bluelight-R006 wrote:And you’d think that work. Perhaps for half of the community, civilians would care about taking up necessary crime prevention skills. But another half of the community would go on with their daily lives.

And the other half have themselves to blame.

And you would think that, but some of us are just ignorant and need an experience to help shift our mindset, and justice needs to be on our side for that. Justice should not be blocked simply because people are ignorant. Justice is served within the community, for the people. The police are the ideal people to go to in these situations, and at this point, is better a case of choosing who to recruit and not.
Last edited by Bluelight-R006 on Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kernen
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Postby Kernen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:06 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
Do you believe in killing or incarcerating bears, wolves, etc just because they're predators? That is my ethical stance in people. I see the beauty in many types of life and human predators are no exception. Everyone has something to give when given the chance.

Animals that are predators are naturally predators. Humans are not naturally criminals. The majority of humans are not criminals. The existence of police is necessary to protect the majority from them.

Humans are predators, and crime is just a different kind of predation.
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No State Here
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Postby No State Here » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:06 pm

Police might be good, but in the end, they are slaves of the state
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:07 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
They go free, life moves on. The circle of life simply keeps turning.

They should pay somehow for their crimes.

I don't see why. The justice system doesn't exactly have a good idea of how to do that, it just ends up damaging them further.

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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:07 pm

Kernen wrote:The eugenics rant has really put a damper on what would otherwise be a fascinating conversation about individual guarantees of liberty and policing.

Wouldn't be the Internet if somebody didn't hijack the conversation by derailing into a discussion about their supposed racial superiority.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:07 pm

Emulation White wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:My group would have insufficient funding to investigate crimes and punish criminals. What would I even do with captured criminals? Not every crime is worthy of a death sentence.


They go free, life moves on. The circle of life simply keeps turning.

And the murderers and rapist of the world continue hurting innocent people in poorer areas without any repercussions while the victims get no closure. Do you have so little empathy that your fine with tens of thousand of people being raped and murdered while the scumbags who did goes free because the victims were too poor to hunt them down?
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:08 pm

Bluelight-R006 wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:And the other half have themselves to blame.

And you would think that, but some of us are just ignorant and need an experience to help shift our mindset, and justice needs to be on our side for that. Justice should not be blocked simply because people are ignorant. Justice is served within the community, for the people. The police are the ideal people to go to in these situations, and at this point, is better a case of choosing who to recruit and not.

Why should your ignorance be state-sanctioned?

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:09 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:They should pay somehow for their crimes.

I don't see why. The justice system doesn't exactly have a good idea of how to do that, it just ends up damaging them further.

That demonstrates that reforms are needed, not that we should let hoodlums steal and kill without interference.
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Emulation White
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Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:11 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
Do you believe in killing or incarcerating bears, wolves, etc just because they're predators? That is my ethical stance in people. I see the beauty in many types of life and human predators are no exception. Everyone has something to give when given the chance.

Animals that are predators are naturally predators. Humans are not naturally criminals. The majority of humans are not criminals. The existence of police is necessary to protect the majority from them.


Some are. That is why some people have increased genetic capability for manipulative skill or aggressive resource acquisition. Violence and predation was a part of life until legality and human fundamentalism came into play. I'm not trying to make a huge ethical argument, more a practical one but if I did it is this: Let those who have fangs use them, let those who build, build. Remove the moral fundamentalism and let each and everyone have the chance to add their unique shade to the spectrum of human life.

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Bluelight-R006
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Postby Bluelight-R006 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:12 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Bluelight-R006 wrote:And you would think that, but some of us are just ignorant and need an experience to help shift our mindset, and justice needs to be on our side for that. Justice should not be blocked simply because people are ignorant. Justice is served within the community, for the people. The police are the ideal people to go to in these situations, and at this point, is better a case of choosing who to recruit and not.

Why should your ignorance be state-sanctioned?

Because no one deserves to be left ignored by a wrongdoing, and like said before, the police can help with that. They have skills to track down the suspect. And not talking about ignorance, no has the right to strike others down emotionally and physically. Empathy needs to run throughout humankind so as to elevate our morality and decency, for humans aren’t wild animals. We’d be lowering ourselves to immorality and indecency, if we don’t take the crimes of people into heart.

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:15 pm

USS Monitor wrote:Police serve a legitimate purpose, but that doesn't mean every department is well-run or every cop is a good fit for that job.

Glad to see you in General, USS Monitor.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:18 pm

Allow me to introduce you all to the actual OP:

Confederate Norway wrote:I don't think there has been a thread for this so I decided to start one. So the question is are police officers for the most part bad or good. I think for the most part they are good. We need the Police to enforce the law or else the law would be pointless. I think anyone who is against the police is honestly just calling out for anarchy. A limited government does not mean we can not have police. There is a difference between limited government and anarchy.


Enough with the eugenics, enough with the debate on the nature of predators, whether humans are naturally predators, or whatever the fuck was going on there. The OP is pretty simple.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:24 pm

Farnhamia wrote:Allow me to introduce you all to the actual OP:

Confederate Norway wrote:I don't think there has been a thread for this so I decided to start one. So the question is are police officers for the most part bad or good. I think for the most part they are good. We need the Police to enforce the law or else the law would be pointless. I think anyone who is against the police is honestly just calling out for anarchy. A limited government does not mean we can not have police. There is a difference between limited government and anarchy.


Enough with the eugenics, enough with the debate on the nature of predators, whether humans are naturally predators, or whatever the fuck was going on there. The OP is pretty simple.

Thanks Farn.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:25 pm

Bluelight-R006 wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Why should your ignorance be state-sanctioned?

Because no one deserves to be left ignored by a wrongdoing, and like said before, the police can help with that. They have skills to track down the suspect. And not talking about ignorance, no has the right to strike others down emotionally and physically. Empathy needs to run throughout humankind so as to elevate our morality and decency, for humans aren’t wild animals. We’d be lowering ourselves to immorality and indecency, if we don’t take the crimes of people into heart.

Agreed.
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Emulation White
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Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:28 pm

Farnhamia wrote:Allow me to introduce you all to the actual OP:

Confederate Norway wrote:I don't think there has been a thread for this so I decided to start one. So the question is are police officers for the most part bad or good. I think for the most part they are good. We need the Police to enforce the law or else the law would be pointless. I think anyone who is against the police is honestly just calling out for anarchy. A limited government does not mean we can not have police. There is a difference between limited government and anarchy.


Enough with the eugenics, enough with the debate on the nature of predators, whether humans are naturally predators, or whatever the fuck was going on there. The OP is pretty simple.


Ridiculous, everything said here was a direct result of trying to determine if police are good or bad. Sorry, if it's not clear cut and simplistic enough.

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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:29 pm

The concept of a law enforcement agency is, for the most part, good.
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Postby Kernen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:30 pm

Kernen wrote:The nature of law enforcement is actively counter to your individual liberties. You maximize your own benefits by refusing to cooperate with officers. Speaking with officers never helps you, and if you do, your statements can be used against you to discredit you, honest or not. Telling the truth can still get you arrested, tried, and convicted. Even when trying to do the right thing and admitting your fault, officers will take advantage of your admission and advise charges regardless of mitigating factors.

The police are rewarded by closing cases, and the constitutional defenses for when they abuse your rights under the Fourth and Fifth amendments have been almost entirely undermined such that the remedy, evidentiary suppression, is presumptively disfavored. Thus, officers have little incentive not to violate your rights and every incentive to do so to close a case.

Police should be treated with active distrust and no citizen should cooperate with any police investigation.


To get us back on track, I'll repost. Police as individuals? Fine. Police as authority figures? Bad for your rights.
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Emulation White
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Postby Emulation White » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:32 pm

Andsed wrote:
Emulation White wrote:
They go free, life moves on. The circle of life simply keeps turning.

And the murderers and rapist of the world continue hurting innocent people in poorer areas without any repercussions while the victims get no closure. Do you have so little empathy that your fine with tens of thousand of people being raped and murdered while the scumbags who did goes free because the victims were too poor to hunt them down?


Damn, I had a good reply typed about to send to you before the mod froze the thread. If I'm not banned, come back to me when the juices start flowing again.

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Postby Thermodolia » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:32 pm

Kernen wrote:
Kernen wrote:The nature of law enforcement is actively counter to your individual liberties. You maximize your own benefits by refusing to cooperate with officers. Speaking with officers never helps you, and if you do, your statements can be used against you to discredit you, honest or not. Telling the truth can still get you arrested, tried, and convicted. Even when trying to do the right thing and admitting your fault, officers will take advantage of your admission and advise charges regardless of mitigating factors.

The police are rewarded by closing cases, and the constitutional defenses for when they abuse your rights under the Fourth and Fifth amendments have been almost entirely undermined such that the remedy, evidentiary suppression, is presumptively disfavored. Thus, officers have little incentive not to violate your rights and every incentive to do so to close a case.

Police should be treated with active distrust and no citizen should cooperate with any police investigation.


To get us back on track, I'll repost. Police as individuals? Fine. Police as authority figures? Bad for your rights.

Of course a lawyer would say the cops are bad. :p

But ya police agencies while on the whole are good must be treated with a shit ton of suspicion.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I suspect I'm the inspiration for this thread, so you already know what I think: bad. Police are around to deprive you of your rights and to enforce the states view on the public. You don't join the police force because you have a love of protecting people, you join it because you like the power and authority it gives you over the average citizen.

I am sure some do, but to assume all do is completely baseless.
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Postby Kernen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:35 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Kernen wrote:
To get us back on track, I'll repost. Police as individuals? Fine. Police as authority figures? Bad for your rights.

Of course a lawyer would say the cops are bad. :p

But ya police agencies while on the whole are good must be treated with a shit ton of suspicion.


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