Steven Crowder vs Carlos Maza

[Cerinda]

Antifa haven't killed a single person. The right-wing however have massacred entire Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, they've bombed buildings, abortion clinics, parks, etc.

So one side is murdering people, while the other is throwing milkshakes and punching Nazis, but I forgot Antifa bad.

It's almost like the right wing is anything that isn't literal communism as far as lefty statisticians are concerned and the stats are recorded as such.

Also, the Baseball shooting and Dayton Shooting were Both Antifa. Not to mention the firebombings that could have been lethal but weren't.

You don't get moral points for incompetence.

"Far lefty statisticians", sure bud, you carry one thinking that lol.

The Baseball shooter was a Hillary Clinton supporter, that isn't Antifa is it? And the Dayton shooter's political beliefs had nothing to do with the shooting.

Make actual argument next time and not just strawmen.

[Nova Cyberia]

It's almost like the right wing is anything that isn't literal communism as far as lefty statisticians are concerned and the stats are recorded as such.

Also, the Baseball shooting and Dayton Shooting were Both Antifa. Not to mention the firebombings that could have been lethal but weren't.

You don't get moral points for incompetence.

"Far lefty statisticians", sure bud, you carry one thinking that lol.

The Baseball shooter was a Hillary Clinton supporter, that isn't Antifa is it? And the Dayton shooter's political beliefs had nothing to do with the shooting.

Make actual argument next time and not just strawmen.

Actually, the baseball shooter was a Berniebro.

As for the Dayton shooter, why do his political beliefs have nothing to do with it?

How convenient that a terrorist's beliefs only matter when they're far-right.

[Electic]

Completely condemn those extremest acts of violence, which means I also condemn the punching of "Nazis" by angry vigilantes. Violence as a replacement for discussion is wrong.

Ah yes Andy Ngo, the man who harassed and filmed people without their permission (which is illegal btw) and lied that he had concrete thrown on him. That claim has been debunked and anyone with a brain knows that concrete won't settle while mixed with at least 1% sugar.

I am against violence as well, but one side is doing a lot more harm than the other.

Concrete claim has not been proven, of which I am glad. And I am not aware of the ordinance where he was filming (I believe exceptions are made for mass public gatherings for journalists, otherwise no news organization would be able to film anywhere. I can do some digging though). What is documented is him being sent to the ER with a concussion. And no city ordinance against filming justify putting someone in the hospital. There are courts that deal with this. We should be able to agree on this at least

[Tech Support Scammer]

"Far lefty statisticians", sure bud, you carry one thinking that lol.

The Baseball shooter was a Hillary Clinton supporter, that isn't Antifa is it? And the Dayton shooter's political beliefs had nothing to do with the shooting.

Make actual argument next time and not just strawmen.

Actually, the baseball shooter was a Berniebro.

As for the Dayton shooter, why do his political beliefs have nothing to do with it?

How convenient that a terrorist's beliefs only matter when they're far-right.

It's because those far-right shooters wrote a manifesto showing that it was due to their political beliefs.

[Cerinda]

"Far lefty statisticians", sure bud, you carry one thinking that lol.

The Baseball shooter was a Hillary Clinton supporter, that isn't Antifa is it? And the Dayton shooter's political beliefs had nothing to do with the shooting.

Make actual argument next time and not just strawmen.

Actually, the baseball shooter was a Berniebro.

As for the Dayton shooter, why do his political beliefs have nothing to do with it?

How convenient that a terrorist's beliefs only matter when they're far-right.

Bernie still isn't Antifa though is it?

Unless someone has said that they're murdering people for their political beliefs, those political beliefs have nothing to do with their killings.

[Scomagia]

Carlos Maza took a joke out of context and spun part of that joke as if it said the word "fags", when it was actually "figs".

Have you ever heard of the concept of puns? Wordplay? Double entendre?

I have which is why I think the shirt is kinda funny. Offensive humor is fun.

[Electic]

Have you ever heard of the concept of puns? Wordplay? Double entendre?

I have which is why I think the shirt is kinda funny. Offensive humor is fun.

Yep, your nations flag checks out

[The Emerald Legion]

It's almost like the right wing is anything that isn't literal communism as far as lefty statisticians are concerned and the stats are recorded as such.

Also, the Baseball shooting and Dayton Shooting were Both Antifa. Not to mention the firebombings that could have been lethal but weren't.

You don't get moral points for incompetence.

"Far lefty statisticians", sure bud, you carry one thinking that lol.

The Baseball shooter was a Hillary Clinton supporter, that isn't Antifa is it? And the Dayton shooter's political beliefs had nothing to do with the shooting.

Make actual argument next time and not just strawmen.

Somebody can't read.

Also, yes it is. Antifa = Liberal idiots who think Violence against their political opponents is ok.

Whatever it used to mean, that's all it means now.

And while we aren't 100% sure what his motivation was thanks to him being dead and leaving no manifesto, there was some evidence it was an attempted retaliation for the El Paso shooting.

[Nova Cyberia]

Actually, the baseball shooter was a Berniebro.

As for the Dayton shooter, why do his political beliefs have nothing to do with it?

How convenient that a terrorist's beliefs only matter when they're far-right.

It's because those far-right shooters wrote a manifesto showing that it was due to their political beliefs.

And, theoretically, if it did come out that he did it in the name of Antifascism or what have you then what would your reaction be?

[Liriena]

Offensive humor is fun.

[glances at "flag burning and guillotine memes" folder]

hehe hell yeah it is

[Scomagia]

I think that you're more likely to choke on a hot dog on any given year than be killed by the right-wing in 2019, even at their worst.

Antifa, however...

Antifa haven't killed a single person. The right-wing however have massacred entire Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, they've bombed buildings, abortion clinics, parks, etc.

So one side is murdering people, while the other is throwing milkshakes and punching Nazis, but I forgot Antifa bad.

Assault doesn't become okay just because the people you are assaulting may or may not hold an ideology that may or may not advocate violence. The two sides don't need to be equals for them to both be garbage.

[Liriena]

The only ones actually fighting Nazis in the US is the federal government.

[Scomagia]

Offensive humor is fun.

[glances at "flag burning and guillotine memes" folder]

hehe hell yeah it is

Indeed. There's no reason gay people should be exempted from offensive humor like that shirt.

And as far as Crowder calling Maza a "lispy queer", well that would be uncool if Maza didn't obviously have a lisp and call himself queer. As it is, that particular line is unfunny only because it's too easy.

[Nova Cyberia]

The only ones actually fighting Nazis in the US is the federal government.

Well, I hate to break it to your Liri but punching people in the face doesn't really do anything to stop fascism.

Now, infiltrating the KKK and Neo-Nazi groups and locking up members who're responsible for violence? That actually does stop fascism.

We have government agencies whose entire purpose is to deal with folks like that. We don't need pink-haired morons who cover their faces attacking liberals waving the American flag. Trust me, we've got it covered.

[Liriena]

[glances at "flag burning and guillotine memes" folder]

hehe hell yeah it is

Indeed. There's no reason gay people should be exempted from offensive humor like that shirt.

Oh, I certainly don't want to be "exempted". If anything, I much prefer failed comedians like Crowder to continue to exist and be so fragrantly lazy about their "edgy" humor so we can dunk on him until the day he dies.

And as far as Crowder calling Maza a "lispy queer", well that would be uncool if Maza didn't obviously have a lisp and call himself queer. As it is, that particular line is unfunny only because it's too easy.

It's also unfunny because it's blatantly derogatory and coming from someone who's actually homophobic.

It's a bit like an actual Islamic fundamentalist making a joke about stoning infidels.

[Liriena]

Well, I hate to break it to your Liri but punching people in the face doesn't really do anything to stop fascism.

I wouldn't be as absolutist as that.

Violence in self-defense can help stop fascist violence in specific contexts. Key thing here: in self-defense.

Just beating the shit out of provocateurs, if you're good at it, might succeed in intimidating them out of the streets, but it's no more a solution to white supremacism than police beating the shit out of black protestors is a solution to the underlying causes of unrest among black Americans.

Now, infiltrating the KKK and Neo-Nazi groups and locking up members who're responsible for violence? That actually does stop fascism.

Agreed, which is why it sucks that the federal government is undermining the organizations that do exactly that and concentrating its own resources in fighting entirely different forms of extremism.

[Christian Confederation]

Crowder is the better person in this situation.

[Liriena]

Crowder is the better person in this situation.

Ummm... no. Crowder is not and has never been the better person in any situation... except whenever he's interviewed white supremacists, I guess. Hard to be worse than Stefan Molyneux.

[Nova Cyberia]

Well, I hate to break it to your Liri but punching people in the face doesn't really do anything to stop fascism.

I wouldn't be as absolutist as that.

Violence in self-defense can help stop fascist violence in specific contexts. Key thing here: in self-defense.

Just beating the shit out of provocateurs, if you're good at it, might succeed in intimidating them out of the streets, but it's no more a solution to white supremacism than police beating the shit out of black protestors is a solution to the underlying causes of unrest among black Americans.

Well, I'm a big believer in the right to self-defense so I have no disagreements with you there. The problem is that Antifa groups don't really commit violence to defend themselves. I mean, their entire modus operandi is using "direct action" to shut down anyone they perceive as fascist.

Now, infiltrating the KKK and Neo-Nazi groups and locking up members who're responsible for violence? That actually does stop fascism.

Agreed, which is why it sucks that the federal government is undermining the organizations that do exactly that and concentrating its own resources in fighting entirely different forms of extremism.

White supremacism and Neo-Nazism are not the only forms of extremism in existence.

[Scomagia]

Indeed. There's no reason gay people should be exempted from offensive humor like that shirt.

Oh, I certainly don't want to be "exempted". If anything, I much prefer failed comedians like Crowder to continue to exist and be so fragrantly lazy about their "edgy" humor so we can dunk on him until the day he dies.

And as far as Crowder calling Maza a "lispy queer", well that would be uncool if Maza didn't obviously have a lisp and call himself queer. As it is, that particular line is unfunny only because it's too easy.

It's also unfunny because it's blatantly derogatory and coming from someone who's actually homophobic.

It's a bit like an actual Islamic fundamentalist making a joke about stoning infidels.

Nah. Derogatory humor is fine. It's unfunny because it's a very simple joke that is more about being douchey to one person than actually making people laugh.

The shirt is funny, though.

And I would laugh at a joke from an Islamist about stoning people, provided it was well constructed. But then, I'm not in the easily offended crowd. I'd laugh at ISIS jokes about beheadings, too, again provided that the joke is well constructed.

[Liriena]

I wouldn't be as absolutist as that.

Violence in self-defense can help stop fascist violence in specific contexts. Key thing here: in self-defense.

Just beating the shit out of provocateurs, if you're good at it, might succeed in intimidating them out of the streets, but it's no more a solution to white supremacism than police beating the shit out of black protestors is a solution to the underlying causes of unrest among black Americans.

Well, I'm a big believer in the right to self-defense so I have no disagreements with you there. The problem is that Antifa groups don't really commit violence to defend themselves. I mean, their entire modus operandi is using "direct action" to shut down anyone they perceive as fascist.

Direct action tends to get the goods as a general rule of thumb, but I will agree that the "direct action" we're talking about here... uh... kinda doesn't get the goods.

Agreed, which is why it sucks that the federal government is undermining the organizations that do exactly that and concentrating its own resources in fighting entirely different forms of extremism.

White supremacism and Neo-Nazism are not the only forms of extremism in existence.

They aren't, but they are the most immediately widespread and dangerous ones in the Anglosphere right now. So the fact that the Trump administration is diverting resources away from federal agencies and non-governmental organizations dedicated to them, and towards Islamic extremism (which, while certainly a problem still, is not the most dangerous one domestically) makes no practical sense and could easily be argued (imho) to be purely ideological.

[Tech Support Scammer]

It's because those far-right shooters wrote a manifesto showing that it was due to their political beliefs.

And, theoretically, if it did come out that he did it in the name of Antifascism or what have you then what would your reaction be?

Well I would condemn them and call it terrorism and hope that they rot in jail, just like I would do with any form of terrorism.

[Nova Cyberia]

Well, I'm a big believer in the right to self-defense so I have no disagreements with you there. The problem is that Antifa groups don't really commit violence to defend themselves. I mean, their entire modus operandi is using "direct action" to shut down anyone they perceive as fascist.

Direct action tends to get the goods as a general rule of thumb, but I will agree that the "direct action" we're talking about here... uh... kinda doesn't get the goods.

White supremacism and Neo-Nazism are not the only forms of extremism in existence.

They aren't, but they are the most immediately widespread and dangerous ones in the Anglosphere right now. So the fact that the Trump administration is diverting resources away from federal agencies and non-governmental organizations dedicated to them, and towards Islamic extremism (which, while certainly a problem still, is not the most dangerous one domestically) makes no practical sense and could easily be argued (imho) to be purely ideological.

Has it been proven that this has hindered the ability of the government to deal with white supremacists?

[Nova Cyberia]

And, theoretically, if it did come out that he did it in the name of Antifascism or what have you then what would your reaction be?

Well I would condemn them and call it terrorism and hope that they rot in jail, just like I would do with any form of terrorism.

At least you're consistent then. I respect that.

[Scomagia]

Well, I'm a big believer in the right to self-defense so I have no disagreements with you there. The problem is that Antifa groups don't really commit violence to defend themselves. I mean, their entire modus operandi is using "direct action" to shut down anyone they perceive as fascist.

Direct action tends to get the goods as a general rule of thumb, but I will agree that the "direct action" we're talking about here... uh... kinda doesn't get the goods.

White supremacism and Neo-Nazism are not the only forms of extremism in existence.

They aren't, but they are the most immediately widespread and dangerous ones in the Anglosphere right now. So the fact that the Trump administration is diverting resources away from federal agencies and non-governmental organizations dedicated to them, and towards Islamic extremism (which, while certainly a problem still, is not the most dangerous one domestically) makes no practical sense and could easily be argued (imho) to be purely ideological.

You are aware that the Fed can investigate Alt-Righties, Alt-Lefties, Islamists, and other groups of concern at the same time, right?