Battle for the Pink House(An Argentine Election Thread)

[Liriena]

Well, Fernández has not been subtle about his distaste for Bolsonaro and his support for Lula's freedom, so there's that.

So far, he doesn't seem very radical about foreign policy beyond that. As far as the IMF is concerned, he wants to renegotiate, but not cut ties outright.

Seems as expected, but what does he want to do regarding Venezuela?

He's been quite critical of Maduro. He's called his government an "authoritarian regime" guilty of abuses and which cannot guarantee institutionality in Venezuela. As far as what exactly he wants to do about it, it doesn't look like he's said anything concrete beyond the fact that he doesn't want to rely on Trump to deal with it.

[Bienenhalde]

Oh, and Fernández declared today that he wants to legalize abortion. Didn't think we'd see any major candidate take a stance on it.

And to answer Nakena's question: yes, Menem's government was the one that messed everything up in the 90s. His policies were the underlying cause of the economic crisis that brought De la Rúa down, and we still feel their consequences to this day.

What a disappointment. I guess I will switch my support to Lavagna.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Come on, Argentina, don’t fall for the Kirchner again. But also, fuck Macri.

[Shrillland]

In the latest news, Clarin has an interesting piece about how La Campora-the Kirchnerist youth league-and Maximo Kirchner(Cristina's son) aren't getting along too well with Alberto Fernandez and wouldn't support his campaign if Cristina Kirchner wasn't his running mate: https://www.clarin.com/politica/primeros-chispazos-alberto-f-campora-palazo-macri_0_YvGKNDQSm.html

There was a major pro-Macri demonstration in front of the Casa Rosada yesterday after he blamed the sudden downturn in the peso's value and in the markets to Fernandez's PASO victory: https://www.clarin.com/politica/impulso-inesperado-mauricio-macri-llego-afuera-politica_0_YgJU2YqeA.html

After thinking for two days, Espert has forced a senatorial candidate for Buenos Aires after she was caught shoplifting from a supermarket: https://www.clarin.com/politica/espert-echo-candidata-senadora-robo-supermercado-coto-barrio-norte_0_B1D7LMV3o.html

ANd there's also a piece about how the drop in peso values and the removal of VAT has led to a huge jump in prices for essentials: https://www.clarin.com/economia/economia/precios-despues-paso-subas-30-crece-tension-inflacionaria_0_5psHIpYhl.html

[Liriena]

In the latest news, Clarin has an interesting piece about how La Campora-the Kirchnerist youth league-and Maximo Kirchner(Cristina's son) aren't getting along too well with Alberto Fernandez and wouldn't support his campaign if Cristina Kirchner wasn't his running mate: https://www.clarin.com/politica/primeros-chispazos-alberto-f-campora-palazo-macri_0_YvGKNDQSm.html

Yeah, this has been a talking point ever since Fernández became the presidential candidate. And yes, we know that Fernández hasn't always seen eye-to-eye with Cristina Fernández and her more zealous supporters. That being said, we have yet to see this materialize into anything visible or anything that might undermine their campaign in october.

There was a major pro-Macri demonstration in front of the Casa Rosada yesterday after he blamed the sudden downturn in the peso's value and in the markets to Fernandez's PASO victory: https://www.clarin.com/politica/impulso-inesperado-mauricio-macri-llego-afuera-politica_0_YgJU2YqeA.html

Yuuuuuup. And it was great in a deeply ironic sense.

After thinking for two days, Espert has forced a senatorial candidate for Buenos Aires Province after she was caught shoplifting from a supermarket: https://www.clarin.com/politica/espert-echo-candidata-senadora-robo-supermercado-coto-barrio-norte_0_B1D7LMV3o.html

As I said in the LWDT, Argentine right-wing libertarians are the gift that keeps on giving.

ANd there's also a piece about how the drop in peso values and the removal of VAT has led to a huge jump in prices for essentials: https://www.clarin.com/economia/economia/precios-despues-paso-subas-30-crece-tension-inflacionaria_0_5psHIpYhl.html

Yuuuuup.

[Shrillland]

Oops, she was actually for Buenos Aires, not the province. Got it fixed.

I'm more curious on how it would actually cause rifts once the Fernandez Administration becomes a reality.

And at least you've stabilised at 55 to 1...until the debates.

[Liriena]

Oops, she was actually for Buenos Aires, not the province. Got it fixed.

I'm more curious on how it would actually cause rifts once the Fernandez Administration becomes a reality.

I think that the likelihood of rifts will depend on how much Fernández diverges policy-wise from the Kirchnerists once he becomes president. So far, it looks like their coalition's leading figures are all on the same page in that regard, and the fact that Cristina has chosen to remain almost invisible throughout the campaign tells me that, at least on her part, there's no power struggle.

And at least you've stabilised at 55 to 1...until the debates.

I honestly don't know what to expect from the debates. Fernández will probably do well simply because he has the right temperament for them and the only trick up the Macri campaign's sleeve is bashing the memory of Cristina's presidency. And he has a golden opportunity to get an early victory by reminding the audience that, during the 2015 debate between Macri and Scioli, Scioli made several predictions about the Macri presidency which became true.

In other news, investigators finished looking into one of the big, more notorious corruption cases involving Cristina Fernández and her inner circle. And the results of their investigation seem to largely vindicate them. https://www.pagina12.com.ar/214276-por- ... -las-obras

Fear of Kirchnerist corruption is the one common thread among Macri voters. It's what binds them together and one of the main battle cries of yesterday's march. Without it, they've got nothing.

[Neko-koku]

Is there any way out?

[Liriena]

Is there any way out?

Of what?

[Neko-koku]

Is there any way out?

Of what?

The fucking mess in Argentina.

Peronism doesn't work. Macri managed to suck even more than Peronists..

[Shrillland]

Of what?

The fucking mess in Argentina.

Peronism doesn't work. Macri managed to suck even more than Peronists..

Well, Peronism-Kirchnerism seems to be the new trend.

[Bear Stearns]

Of what?

The fucking mess in Argentina.

Peronism doesn't work. Macri managed to suck even more than Peronists..

I think we have an example of something that worked pretty well in Chile

[Neko-koku]

The fucking mess in Argentina.

Peronism doesn't work. Macri managed to suck even more than Peronists..

I think we have an example of something that worked pretty well in Chile

Demographically and culturally Chile and Argentina are actually fairly similar. Both are "white" Spanish countries that are actually 20-30% Native American genetically.

So if something works for Chile it probably works for Argentina.

[Bear Stearns]

I think we have an example of something that worked pretty well in Chile

Demographically and culturally Chile and Argentina are actually fairly similar. Both are "white" Spanish countries that are actually 20-30% Native American genetically.

So if something works for Chile it probably works for Argentina.

Similar demographics, similar climates, similar geographies, and similar histories.

It's like using Canada as a test case for what could work in America.

[Bear Stearns]

I think we have an example of something that worked pretty well in Chile

Demographically and culturally Chile and Argentina are actually fairly similar. Both are "white" Spanish countries that are actually 20-30% Native American genetically.

So if something works for Chile it probably works for Argentina.

Similar demographics, similar climates, similar geographies, and similar histories.

It's like using Canada as a test case for what could work in America.

[Neko-koku]

Demographically and culturally Chile and Argentina are actually fairly similar. Both are "white" Spanish countries that are actually 20-30% Native American genetically.

So if something works for Chile it probably works for Argentina.

Similar demographics, similar climates, similar geographies, and similar histories.

It's like using Canada as a test case for what could work in America.

Yep.

[Shrillland]

The fucking mess in Argentina.

Peronism doesn't work. Macri managed to suck even more than Peronists..

I think we have an example of something that worked pretty well in Chile

No. Nobody in Argentina wants to go back to the days of the juntas just to see liberalised free-market economics take over.

[Neko-koku]

I think we have an example of something that worked pretty well in Chile

No. Nobody in Argentina wants to go back to the days of the juntas just to see liberalised free-market economics take over.

You don't need juntas to have free market economics.

[Shrillland]

No. Nobody in Argentina wants to go back to the days of the juntas just to see liberalised free-market economics take over.

You don't need juntas to have free market economics.

True. Nonetheless, Macri was bringing Argentina closer to free markets, and it bit him in the arse. The country is once again at the IMF's mercy, the market solutions for utilities have only led to exorbitant energy bills, and the peso has dropped by 35% from just a few weeks ago.

[Liriena]

The fucking mess in Argentina.

Peronism doesn't work. Macri managed to suck even more than Peronists..

I think we have an example of something that worked pretty well in Chile

I like my tuition-free university, so no. :^)

[Phoenicaea]

^ wretched to read as ever, that in debt countries as argentina, italy, turkey, russia, all the world over, again sink because can t dodge their absurdly pervasive corruption.

[Socrecia]

Hi, I'm from Argentina.

The political situation in the country is so delicate that even candidates like Alberto Fernandez and Mauricio Macri are forced to improve their political relations so that the situation does not get out of control. A few days after the PASO, the whole country stopped working, the banks had "fails" and did not let the savers withdraw money, the litter bins did not sell paper, etc. etc. I interpret this as a demonstration that businessmen do not want Macri to leave, since Macri reduced import restrictions (even though he raised taxes for agricultural production). With Macri, inflation is uncontrollable and the economic model is threatened by people's disagreement. The reason I oppose Peronist candidate Alberto Fernandez is because Cristina Kirchner is running as vice president. Many people often classify Macri as "neoliberal" because their electoral proposals were related to the opening of the markets, reduction of imports and less intervention by the state in commerce and the withdrawal of the government in the regulation of the sale of dollars, I need to clarify that Macri did not implement all the neoliberal recipes, since he did not significantly reduce public spending on social assistance and in several cases increased it.

As an Argentine fully aware of the history of my country, I am proud to say that I have no faith in any of the candidates or in the electoral proposals they make. If Macri rules tomorrow or Peronism returns to power, I don't care, it will be the same for me. I do not have good expectations, I have become so disappointed with the governments of my country that the only way to have any political joy is having bad expectations, in this way I will not be disappointed if the government makes a bad decision because that would be waiting. I believe that the Macri formula and the Peronism formula can work, the only thing that prevents the country from developing is the corruption.

The only thing I don't want is for the IMF to be in my country, for banks to close and take people's money or for the US or any European country to offer to "save" the Argentine economy. (And although my wishes seem Peronist, I feel more identified with the ideals of the UCR and in the PASO i voted to Macri)

[Phoenicaea]

^you may find a route so that us dollar and pesos don t come that way.
crass people having us dollars and slim people buying in pesos, so it stays a class divide.

[Liriena]

One of the most fascinating aspects of the post-primaries Macri campaign has been the circulation of videos from Argentinians living abroad or directed at Argentinians living abroad. Argentinians living in Miami trying to lecture Argentinians living in Argentina still on why they should "hold on", bite the bullet and vote for Macri again to prevent our country from turning into another vuvuzela.

[Shrillland]

One of the most fascinating aspects of the post-primaries Macri campaign has been the circulation of videos from Argentinians living abroad or directed at Argentinians living abroad. Argentinians living in Miami trying to lecture Argentinians living in Argentina still on why they should "hold on", bite the bullet and vote for Macri again to prevent our country from turning into another vuvuzela.

And are they going to come back if Macri wins a second term? Or are the going to stay out as Macri further damages the economy?