Who was worse?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Should we attribute WWIs casualties to Gavrilo Princip?

Did he formally declare war in the name of Serbia or was he just some looney terrorist? Was Lincoln the first to declare war?

And even if we do blame Lincoln, where's the wrong? The Civil War led directly to the emancipation of millions.

[Fasma]

Hitler's society lasted the least long and definitely had a wider negative impact than the other two. That being said, all were mass murderers, guilty of omnipresent abuse of human rights. The few good things the three men did were far outweighed by the atrocities ordered directly by them or conducted under their watch.

[Pacomia]

Alfredo Stroessner was pretty terrible too, but this isn’t about him, I guess.

[Vivolkha]

Problem is that, once Mao learnt the disastrous consequences of his own policies, he did not abandon them at all. He didn't care, he carried on with them and actually doubled down.

Source?

This and this.

[Chan Island]

>Hitler "only" having 11 million victims
>Not counting every soldier and civilian who died on both sides as a direct result of his efforts to establish the New Order

You know Stalin fought in that war too

After Hitler attacked him.

[Risastorstein]

Can we add Leopold II in the list of Humanity's Greatest Assholes™?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

You know Stalin fought in that war too

After Hitler attacked him.

After Stalin attacked Poland with Hitler, starting WWII.

[East Ustya]

Source?

This and this.

Those are hardly trustworthy sources now are they?

They neglect the fact there was a serious drought that year for one, and the stories of torture and esecutions are clearly fabricated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM_I2qIAARA

Just like in that whole ''Mao the unknown story'' book.

[The Alma Mater]

However Hitler was at least good to ethnic Germans.

And animals. In fact, many European laws forbidding animal mistreatment were introduced by him.

[Lancaster of Wessex]

This and this.

Those are hardly trustworthy sources now are they?

They neglect the fact there was a serious drought that year for one, and the stories of torture and esecutions are clearly fabricated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM_I2qIAARA

Just like in that whole ''Mao the unknown story'' book.

Since when is the New York Times not a reliable source, because you disagree with it?

[Page]

Hitler is worse because the deaths of millions caused under his regime was particularly intentional and malicious. Not only did Hitler deliberately have millions of Jews and Slavs murdered, it was nazi aggression that set off World War 2, particularly the Eastern Front, the most horrific conflict in human history.

The Soviets carried out many inexcusable atrocities during WW2 (as well as before and after), but they suffered as a nation more than any other in human history. Many of Stalin's crimes, both those against German civilians and the purges in the USSR, occurred under the unimaginably awful conditions of the Eastern Front. The brutality of the nazis does not excuse Soviet war crimes, but it created the conditions in which these war crimes could be rationalized as justifiable or necessary. Humans subjected to brutality become brutal. Elie Weisel wrote about a man in a nazi concentration camp who savagely beat his own father for a piece of bread. People in Leningrad under siege murdered and cannibalized their neighbors because they were starving. Brutal conditions make brutal people.

And as for the deaths attributed to both Stalin and Mao, it must be acknowledged many were not the result of murderous intent. The famines that occurred cannot be deemed natural, but they were to some extent the result of poor planning and incompetence rather than malice. Mao having farmers forge steel in their own backyard rather than growing food, that's appallingly incompetent but not consciously homicidal.

And nobody even bothers to ask WHY Mao did that.

I know, but nobody cares.

He did it because he hoped to emulate the rapid industrialization of the USSR during the early 20th century, but Mao did a shit job of it (though China would eventually get there much later).

You have to hand it to the Soviets, they took a backwards wreck of a country and turned it into a world power in two decades, progress that took 100 years or more for America. Russia was to Europe what stereotypical West Virginia's Appalachia is to the US, and the Soviets turned it into a superpower that crushed the German war machine and rivaled the United States for half a century on.

[East Ustya]

Those are hardly trustworthy sources now are they?

They neglect the fact there was a serious drought that year for one, and the stories of torture and esecutions are clearly fabricated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM_I2qIAARA

Just like in that whole ''Mao the unknown story'' book.

Since when is the New York Times not a reliable source, because you disagree with it?

No, becuase it warps the truth.
Thats why.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

This and this.

Those are hardly trustworthy sources now are they?

They neglect the fact there was a serious drought that year for one, and the stories of torture and esecutions are clearly fabricated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM_I2qIAARA

Just like in that whole ''Mao the unknown story'' book.

As for the torture and executions during the cultural revolution, I see no evidence those were fabricated.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Since when is the New York Times not a reliable source, because you disagree with it?

No, becuase it warps the truth.
Thats why.

Probably because it doesn't write tankie propaganda.

[Page]

Can we add Leopold II in the list of Humanity's Greatest Assholes™?

I'd also like to list Lavrenty Beria for most evil Soviet and potentially one of the most terrible people ever. In addition to all the murders he carried out while head of NKVD, he might be the most prolific serial rapist in history. This is a man so fucked up that Stalin warned his kids to stay away from him.

[Chan Island]

After Hitler attacked him.

After Stalin attacked Poland with Hitler, starting WWII.

It's the ultimate irony with those 2 most evil people in history isn't it? First they worked together, then Hitler backstabbed his trade partner. And then cities were razed and only 25% of Russian men born in 1923 lived to 1946.

[East Ustya]

Those are hardly trustworthy sources now are they?

They neglect the fact there was a serious drought that year for one, and the stories of torture and esecutions are clearly fabricated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM_I2qIAARA

Just like in that whole ''Mao the unknown story'' book.

As for the torture and executions during the cultural revolution, I see no evidence those were fabricated.

Sure, becuase the US is ALWAYS right... hmmm?

Please!

[Novus America]

Source?

This and this.

Also he and his cronies openly stated it:
“Casualties have indeed appeared among workers, but it is not enough to stop us in our tracks. This is the price we have to pay, it's nothing to be afraid of. Who knows how many people have been sacrificed on the battlefields and in the prisons [for the revolutionary cause]? Now we have a few cases of illness and death: it's nothing!”
Chen Yi, Mao’s Foreign Minister

“When there is not enough to eat people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.”
Mao himself.

Mao’s complete sociopathic disregard for human life cannot be overstated.
Deaths meant nothing to him.

[Stalliongrad and Far-Eastern Territories]

Hitler's ideology specifically demands genocide, for the others genocide was a side-effect. Mal intent is the key here.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

As for the torture and executions during the cultural revolution, I see no evidence those were fabricated.

Sure, becuase the US is ALWAYS right... hmmm?

Please!

I never said the U.S. was always right. You claimed that all the human rights abuses in China during that time is merely U.S. propaganda, and the burden of proof is on you, as you made the claim.

[Ayissor]

I'd say 100 is a conservative estimate considering 200 million people lived in the USSR at that time, and that's not all the Slaves in Europe.
So yeah, it would probably be that high if not higher.

I'd say half the slavs in eastern europe being declared able to the teutonized doesn't sound unlikely at all- more like the bare minimum. And we forget that a lot of the ethnicities out there got declared aryan, like the latvians, most of the ugro-finnic groups, and even some of the slavs(like croats).

Half the slavs being declared still means 100m + dead, Croats are a separate story since they helped the Nazis, obviously, they wouldn't call them Untermenschen in their face as it would defeat the whole point and the Croats might as well have been assisting the Soviets.
The Nazis are not reliable by any means, they were backstabbing dicks, what they declared Aryan could become Untermenschen the next day.

[East Ustya]

This and this.

Also he and his cronies openly stated it:
“Casualties have indeed appeared among workers, but it is not enough to stop us in our tracks. This is the price we have to pay, it's nothing to be afraid of. Who knows how many people have been sacrificed on the battlefields and in the prisons [for the revolutionary cause]? Now we have a few cases of illness and death: it's nothing!”
Chen Yi, Mao’s Foreign Minister

“When there is not enough to eat people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.”
Mao himself.

Mao’s complete sociopathic disregard for human life cannot be overstated.
Deaths meant nothing to him.

Where did you get that nonsense from?

FOX news?

[Lancaster of Wessex]

Also he and his cronies openly stated it:
“Casualties have indeed appeared among workers, but it is not enough to stop us in our tracks. This is the price we have to pay, it's nothing to be afraid of. Who knows how many people have been sacrificed on the battlefields and in the prisons [for the revolutionary cause]? Now we have a few cases of illness and death: it's nothing!”
Chen Yi, Mao’s Foreign Minister

“When there is not enough to eat people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.”
Mao himself.

Mao’s complete sociopathic disregard for human life cannot be overstated.
Deaths meant nothing to him.

Where did you get that nonsense from?

FOX news?

And this is where the far left is as bad as the far right: history disproves their narratives, so they call it lies and "fake news." It's a pity people can't accept that their heroes were shitty human beings who committed atrocities.

[Novus America]

Also he and his cronies openly stated it:
“Casualties have indeed appeared among workers, but it is not enough to stop us in our tracks. This is the price we have to pay, it's nothing to be afraid of. Who knows how many people have been sacrificed on the battlefields and in the prisons [for the revolutionary cause]? Now we have a few cases of illness and death: it's nothing!”
Chen Yi, Mao’s Foreign Minister

“When there is not enough to eat people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.”
Mao himself.

Mao’s complete sociopathic disregard for human life cannot be overstated.
Deaths meant nothing to him.

Where did you get that nonsense from?

FOX news?

Dikötter, Frank. Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958–62.
ISBN 0-8027-7768-6

[East Ustya]

Where did you get that nonsense from?

FOX news?

And this is where the far left is as bad as the far right: history disproves their narratives, so they call it lies and "fake news." It's a pity people can't accept that their heroes were shitty human beings who committed atrocities.

That is more of an American thing really, a nation that believes ALL its actions are inherently justified, not matter how terrible they are.

YES Mao made mistakes, but he did not torture and murder millions of people.