Who was worse?

[Neko-koku]

That is more of an American thing really, a nation that believes ALL its actions are inherently justified, not matter how terrible they are.

YES Mao made mistakes, but he did not torture and murder millions of people.

“The movement paralyzed China politically and damaged its economy and society, and killed an estimated 500,000 to 2,000,000 people.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

“Not all deaths during the Great Leap were from starvation. Frank Dikötter estimates that at least 2.5 million people were beaten or tortured to death and one million to three million committed suicide.[101][56] He provides some illustrative examples. In Xinyang, where over a million died in 1960, 6–7% (around 67,000) of these were beaten to death by the militias. In Daoxian county, 10% of those who died had been "buried alive, clubbed to death or otherwise killed by party members and their militia." In Shimen county, around 13,500 died in 1960, of these 12% were "beaten or driven to their deaths."[102] In accounts documented by Yang Jisheng,[35][53] people were beaten or killed for rebelling against the government, reporting the real harvest numbers, for sounding alarm, for refusing to hand over what little food they had left, for trying to flee the famine area, for begging food or as little as stealing scraps or angering officials.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

Also deaths caused by a complete disregard for human life are still murder.

Mao was a complete sociopath. Stalin was not much better.

[Adad Civilization]

A tree doesn't need to say it's made of wood.

And one liners prove nothing.

Dikötter, Frank. Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958–62.
ISBN 0-8027-7768-6

Great, some "expert"

I think Luke 6:41-42 is needed in this situation...

[Neko-koku]

And one liners prove nothing.

Great, some "expert"

I think Luke 6:41-42 is needed in this situation...

Mao wasn't Christian.

[Neanderthaland]

Timur.

[Novus America]

Dikötter, Frank. Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958–62.
ISBN 0-8027-7768-6

Great, some "expert"

So basically you reject any evidence or source that does not support your views.

[Adad Civilization]

I think Luke 6:41-42 is needed in this situation...

Mao wasn't Christian.

Not my point, I was calling him out for hypocrisy

[Lancaster of Wessex]

Great, some "expert"

So basically you reject any evidence or source that does not support your views.

Correct. And he'd have adored said expert if Mr. Dikotter agreed with his views, but, since he's an actual historian with proof who goes against his narrative, he's a buffoon.

[Rojava Free State]

Oh boy, this is gonna be a chaotic

[Dangine]

What about Genghis Khan? Many estimates say he killed as many as 40 million people.

[East Ustya]

Great, some "expert"

So basically you reject any evidence or source that does not support your views.

No, I am just saying that he has probably never even visited China, meaning he has to reply on ''eye witness accounts'', and those are often fabricated.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

A tree doesn't need to say it's made of wood.

And one liners prove nothing.

You're one to talk.

[Leninist Haven]

Where did you get that nonsense from?

FOX news?

And this is where the far left is as bad as the far right: history disproves their narratives, so they call it lies and "fake news." It's a pity people can't accept that their heroes were shitty human beings who committed atrocities.

Please don't lump us all in together. Capitalists, Fascists, and Stalinists/Maoists hate us Trotskyists the same. The Stalinists and Maoists hate us because we don't claim 100% of Stalinist/Maoist propaganda as being fact, and the capitalists/fascists hate us over ideology. We're not all the same.

[Herearewe]

Those who say Stalin only joined the war because Hitler attacked him and collaborated with him in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact are completely wrong. First of all, look at the immediate events leading up to the war. In the Munich Diktat, Britain and France effectively adopted a collaborationist stance, and Poland itself participated in the partition of the Czechs. Practically every nation in Europe has some form of dealings or agreement with the Nazis. The soviet collaboration is no more or less deplorable than that of the Poles or the Brits or the French, and must be excused. (However this does not excuse Katyn or atrocities committed against the Poles, however note here once again that this was not an attempt at genocide, but a purge of the officer corps that was opposed to Soviet policy and likely to rebel - inexcusable but entirely different from Nazi war crimes.)

[Rojava Free State]

And this is where the far left is as bad as the far right: history disproves their narratives, so they call it lies and "fake news." It's a pity people can't accept that their heroes were shitty human beings who committed atrocities.

That is more of an American thing really, a nation that believes ALL its actions are inherently justified, not matter how terrible they are.

YES Mao made mistakes, but he did not torture and murder millions of people.

Bro mao and Stalin both had "reeducation camps" where this took place

[Washington Resistance Army]

Mao kinda takes the cake.

[Adad Civilization]

What about Genghis Khan? Many estimates say he killed as many as 40 million people.

+ 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia from the black death, which Ghengis and his descendants both intentionally and unintentionally spread

[Lancaster of Wessex]

So basically you reject any evidence or source that does not support your views.

No, I am just saying that he has probably never even visited China, meaning he has to reply on ''eye witness accounts'', and those are often fabricated.

Please prove both the bolded statements.

And?

And do you have any scholarly books published under your name to disprove what the vast majority of historians agree with? i.e. that Mao's regime committed countless atrocities costing millions of lives? Have you submitted any papers to historical journals for peer review? Or is it just, "I love Mao and you're all just spreading lies that I can't accept because of my aforementioned fondness for said tyrant."

[Novus America]

Stalin and Mao didn't kill out of ethnic and racial hatred. So, if Hitler had won, a hell of a lot more would have died. Stalin and Mao killed out of a mixture of incompetence and power-hunger, so I would say hitler was worse than the two of them.

Between Stalin and Mao, I would say Mao as they were both pretty much the same. The only exception being Mao killed a hellova lot more.

Debatable considering that Tibetans and Ukrainians suffered disproportionately.
But you are right Hitler’s lower score was because he was taken out of the “game” earlier, not from lack of effort.

Hitler planned to reduce the Slavic population of Poland, and Russia by killing some two thirds via mass murder and starvation.

Stalin also committed genocide in Eastern Poland and Eastern Germany after the war with the deliberate intent of “ethnic cleansing”.

[Rojava Free State]

What about Genghis Khan? Many estimates say he killed as many as 40 million people.

Damn, dude killed that many people without modern weapons. All he had were some muskets, rockets and small bombs. None of the modern weapons of like WW2

[Herearewe]

That is more of an American thing really, a nation that believes ALL its actions are inherently justified, not matter how terrible they are.

YES Mao made mistakes, but he did not torture and murder millions of people.

Bro mao and Stalin both had "reeducation camps" where this took place

And we had Japanese Internment, Slavery longer than any western nation, and four centuries of genocide of Native Americans. the US is just as inexcusable in its actions as the vile actions of those regimes.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Yes, gulags, ethnic cleansing, and purges were not needed to win WWII. Are you going tankie now?

No, I firmly reject authoritarianism in all its forms and I condemn all the atrocities of Stalinist Russia.

What I was going for was more so to question whether it's even possible to retain human decency under such conditions as the Soviets faced during the nazi invasion, and perhaps also that Stalin might have acted as he did because of the incredibly dire conditions.

Retaining human decency when fighting the Nazis was pretty much impossible; however, I would argue the Soviets never had it, especially when they did grotesque things to Poland before they were attacked by the Nazis. I'm not going to condemn what needed to be done to fight the Nazis, but Stalin did grotesque atrocities both before and after the war that he didn't need to do, and he did some disgusting things during the war that he didn't need to do, and he should be condemned for that.

Anyway, I'm glad you ain't a Stalinist or anything like that.

[Adad Civilization]

No, I am just saying that he has probably never even visited China, meaning he has to reply on ''eye witness accounts'', and those are often fabricated.

Please prove both the bolded statements.

And?

And do you have any scholarly books published under your name to disprove what the vast majority of historians agree with? i.e. that Mao's regime committed countless atrocities costing millions of lives? Have you submitted any papers to historical journals for peer review? Or is it just, "I love Mao and you're all just spreading lies that I can't accept because of my aforementioned fondness for said tyrant."

I mean, it has been proven multiple times that genocide-denying Maoists and Stalinists are the Anti-Vaxxers of Communism.

"Everything that disproves my point is fake news by the Capitalists, here's a blog post from Communism.net that proves my point!"

[Neanderthaland]

What about Genghis Khan? Many estimates say he killed as many as 40 million people.

Arguably An Lushan is responsible for more. But nobody's ever heard of him.

[Adad Civilization]

What about Genghis Khan? Many estimates say he killed as many as 40 million people.

Damn, dude killed that many people without modern weapons. All he had were some muskets, rockets and small bombs. None of the modern weapons of like WW2

Muskets? Those wouldn't have been invented until way after his conquests during the founding of the Ming Dynasty.

[East Ustya]

Fine, I am gone, believe what you want, but insulting me does not prove your point.

Good day!