Who was worse?

[Novus America]

Umm Deng ended up ruling. And had great economic success by dumping Maoist economics.
No more great famines.
When Deng came into power the PRC was one of the poorest countries in the world.
And when he died it had become much wealthier.

And “natural disasters” causing the famine? Total garbage.
“Natural” like killing the sparrows? “Natural” like exporting food while people where starving to death?

Food was exported because people lied about production (that was because of Deng Xiaoping’s monetary incentives), these false claims were taken seriously by the government; this is clearly the fault of Deng, not of Mao

The guy at the top is responsible. You cannot simply pass blame off to your underlings. That is poor leadership.

And this is why one reason why centralized command economic never work.
Information flow (or lack thereof) is an inherent problem in centralized command economies.

At least Deng realized this when he took over.

[Novus America]

Anyways if you want to shoot down the Mao love and Deng hate all you need is this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori ... _India.svg

Now Deng was also brutal yes, but actually understood economics.

Deng began implementing horrific policies like the economic reform (which he killed the ones whom protested against it and wanted a Maoist line to be continued-Tiananmen Square incident), one child policy, cancelling of Cultural Revolution and class struggle, disbandment of Red Guards, suppression of dissent, implementation of socialism with Chinese characteristics, cancelling of environmental policy and much more revisionist filth.

The most significant changes were to agricultural production. Liu’s reforms abolished the People’s Communes and communal kitchens. Under Liu and Deng's government, communal land was given over to rich families. Marketplaces were restored and farmers were again allowed to sell surplus produce (though not grain, which had to be sold to the state). Basically, the means of production were transferred from public to private. They had restored capitalism, they had a history of that by the time the GPCR came round. The two capitalist roaders tried to detach Beijing from the rest of China and lived lives of luxury at the expense of peasants. Loads of false profits and gold stored in walls were uncovered during the Red Guards' investigation of their residences. They supported the rich families and were engaged with shady deals and profiteering schemes.
They were also found to have been suppressing information about the famines when they broke out.

Mao did plenty of brutal repression.
But without achieving any major GDP per capita growth.
The PRC was still dirt poor at the end of Mao’s rule.

Deng was absolutely a brutal dictator too, but he at least achieved large economic growth.
Now I am not saying Deng was a good guy, he was not. But he achieved much better results.

The PRC has objectively done much better economically under his policies.

[Balticonia]

Those who say Stalin only joined the war because Hitler attacked him and collaborated with him in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact are completely wrong. First of all, look at the immediate events leading up to the war. In the Munich Diktat, Britain and France effectively adopted a collaborationist stance, and Poland itself participated in the partition of the Czechs. Practically every nation in Europe has some form of dealings or agreement with the Nazis. The soviet collaboration is no more or less deplorable than that of the Poles or the Brits or the French, and must be excused. (However this does not excuse Katyn or atrocities committed against the Poles, however note here once again that this was not an attempt at genocide, but a purge of the officer corps that was opposed to Soviet policy and likely to rebel - inexcusable but entirely different from Nazi war crimes.)

I don't think any country described there can be excused. Britain and France made ghastly mistakes and I don't think we should wave them off by saying "Oh, Russia did worse." Poor leadership in the UK particularly was as much to blame for World War II as Hitler was himself.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

What about Chiang Kai-shek?

[North German Realm]

I'm curious why other, non-ideologically driven mass murdering tyrants aren't mentioned in the thread tbh. The OP was definitely trying to perform apologia for nazis, and at least half the thread is performing apologia for Mao or Stalin, but honestly? There were other bastards who *weren't* Stalin or Mao or Hitler. Pol Pot, Leopold II, the cadre in charge of Imperial Japan. There's an abundance of examples to go by.

[The United Kindom under Socialist Rule]

You know what, I know it’s probably fallen on death ears, but hopefully something I’ve said regarding Mao could have challenged your spoon-fed notion of him. And if anyone questions themselves, that is a victory in my eyes.

毛主席万万岁！

[The United Kindom under Socialist Rule]

Farewell, and interesting discussion. I wish you all the best.

[Pacomia]

Why are death counts what measure evilness?

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Why are death counts what measure evilness?

What would you use, leaving the toilet seat up?

[Pacomia]

Why are death counts what measure evilness?

What would you use, leaving the toilet seat up?

All I’m saying is that you could kill 2 million Nazis or kill nobody but torture thousands and then the Nazi-killer would be like Hitler and the torturer wouldn’t be evil at all.

[Grosserdeutsches Reich]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

[Estanglia]

All three of them were absolutely evil. It doesn't matter who was the worst out of the three.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

His actions led directly to Germany's destruction.

[Novus America]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

He did good things for Germany and Germans by destroying Germany and killing Germans?

[Estanglia]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

He did good things for Germany and Germans by destroying Germany and killing Germans?

I guess it's a good thing to lose territory, get utterly destroyed and split into two countries.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

What would you use, leaving the toilet seat up?

All I’m saying is that you could kill 2 million Nazis or kill nobody but torture thousands and then the Nazi-killer would be like Hitler and the torturer wouldn’t be evil at all.

Man I wish I could've killed two million nazis.

[First American Empire]

I'm curious why other, non-ideologically driven mass murdering tyrants aren't mentioned in the thread tbh. The OP was definitely trying to perform apologia for nazis, and at least half the thread is performing apologia for Mao or Stalin, but honestly? There were other bastards who *weren't* Stalin or Mao or Hitler. Pol Pot, Leopold II, the cadre in charge of Imperial Japan. There's an abundance of examples to go by.

I've seen a lot of Genghis Khan apologia before, even though he killed a larger percentage of the world population than anyone else in history.

[North German Realm]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

His Actions were specifically responsible for the eradication of the source of what was -at that point- the German National identity, its influence as a global power, a large part of its population, and the loss of its territorial and political sovereignty.
Before he came into power, he personally caused multiple internal conflicts that resulted in the loss of property and life of Germans including but not limited to historical buildings, and as a Chancellor, he fucked up the country's economy to the point of hilarity. How in the name of fuck was he "good" to Germans, Germany, or "ethnic Aryans"???

[Torrocca]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

>Be German Jews, German LGBTQ+, German Romani (Indo-Aryan), German people with political beliefs different from Nazism, German mentally and physically disabled, German Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
>All ethnically German (or Indo-Aryan)
>Get enslaved/killed by the Nazis anyway

So much for Hitler "being good" to ethnic Germans and """Aryans""".

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

[North German Realm]

Hitler wasn't evil. At least he did good things for Germany, and was good to ethnic Germans and aryans.

>Be German Jews, German LGBTQ+, German Romani (Indo-Aryan), German people with political beliefs different from Nazism, German mentally and physically disabled, German Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
>All ethnically German
>Get enslaved/killed by the Nazis anyway

So much for Hitler "being good" to ethnic Germans and """Aryans""".

Also literally diminish Germany into two small vassal states of foreign powers for the first time since 1815, lose nearly half of the territory Germany had before you got to power, make it so Germany becomes "land of short, screaming men with funny mustaches" for a few decades (until the Miracle happened anyway), etc. etc.
Honestly, Hitler wasn't good for the so-called "Aryans" either, but less Germany as a whole.

[Torrocca]

>Be German Jews, German LGBTQ+, German Romani (Indo-Aryan), German people with political beliefs different from Nazism, German mentally and physically disabled, German Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.
>All ethnically German
>Get enslaved/killed by the Nazis anyway

So much for Hitler "being good" to ethnic Germans and """Aryans""".

Also literally diminish Germany into two small vassal states of foreign powers for the first time since 1815, lose nearly half of the territory Germany had before you got to power, make it so Germany becomes "land of short, screaming men with funny mustaches" for a few decades (until the Miracle happened anyway), etc. etc.
Honestly, Hitler wasn't good for the so-called "Aryans" either, but less Germany as a whole.

>TFW you go from being perhaps the strongest power in Europe because you spent 90% of your time sucker-punching everyone else to the fifth and sixth strongest power because everyone got tired of your bullshit

That was a huge 1488th-dimensional Chess move the Nazis pulled off.

[North German Realm]

Also literally diminish Germany into two small vassal states of foreign powers for the first time since 1815, lose nearly half of the territory Germany had before you got to power, make it so Germany becomes "land of short, screaming men with funny mustaches" for a few decades (until the Miracle happened anyway), etc. etc.
Honestly, Hitler wasn't good for the so-called "Aryans" either, but less Germany as a whole.

>TFW you go from being perhaps the strongest power in Europe because you spent 90% of your time sucker-punching everyone else to the fifth and sixth strongest power because everyone got tired of your bullshit

That was a huge 1488th-dimensional Chess move the Nazis pulled off.

TFW you had the most Powerful army in Europe and then you fuck up so hard you have the fifth most Powerful army in Berlin six years later.

do you think we should stop dunking on Hitler

[Torrocca]

>TFW you go from being perhaps the strongest power in Europe because you spent 90% of your time sucker-punching everyone else to the fifth and sixth strongest power because everyone got tired of your bullshit

That was a huge 1488th-dimensional Chess move the Nazis pulled off.

TFW you had the most Powerful army in Europe and then you fuck up so hard you have the fifth most Powerful army in Berlin six years later.

do you think we should stop dunking on Hitler

>TFW you called Germans ubermensch but systematically slaughtered a fuckton of fellow ubermensch and then got destroyed by the world anyway

Never

[Marquisal]

Uncle Adolf did not kill them it was all ideas of Herman Goering and Heinrich Himmler, when instead in Soviet Russia it was Stalin's idea the pollitical repression and gulags, as well as what happened with Mao Tse Tung in China.

It was not Adolf's fault...