Forgiving student loans seems dumb

[Bear Stearns]

The government should stop guaranteeing student loans, forcing lenders to actually be diligent about who they give loans to, meaning that the only people who will receive student loans will the be people least likely to default/most likely to pay them back, i.e. students with good credit, STEM, and business majors.

Humanities & liberal arts will return to once more only being studied by the rich kids who can afford full tuition.

idk if that'd solve the "problem" though, lenders would probably find other asset guarantees parked around to keep interest rates low. Not that this is inherently bad.

To make things cheaper, lenders would demand that college be shorter and that you should only take classes relevant to your major so you can graduate more quickly.

And I don't have a problem with this. My non-major classes were the biggest waste of time and I was still paying full tuition for them.

It would actually be awesome if you could graduate in two years doing only your major-required work.

[Great Minarchistan]

idk if that'd solve the "problem" though, lenders would probably find other asset guarantees parked around to keep interest rates low. Not that this is inherently bad.

To make things cheaper, lenders would demand that college be shorter and that you should only take classes relevant to your major so you can graduate more quickly.

And I don't have a problem with this. My non-major classes were the biggest waste of time and I was still paying full tuition for them.

It would actually be awesome if you could graduate in two years doing only your major-required work.

Networking and frat parties tho

[Ifreann]

The government should stop guaranteeing student loans, forcing lenders to actually be diligent about who they give loans to, meaning that the only people who will receive student loans will the be people least likely to default/most likely to pay them back, i.e. students with good credit, STEM, and business majors.

Humanities & liberal arts will return to once more only being studied by the rich kids who can afford full tuition.

Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

[Bear Stearns]

To make things cheaper, lenders would demand that college be shorter and that you should only take classes relevant to your major so you can graduate more quickly.

And I don't have a problem with this. My non-major classes were the biggest waste of time and I was still paying full tuition for them.

It would actually be awesome if you could graduate in two years doing only your major-required work.

Networking and frat parties tho

As fun as those are, getting a full two years of full-time earnings and career advancement is even better.

[Great Minarchistan]

Networking and frat parties tho

As fun as those are, getting a full two years of full-time earnings and career advancement is even better.

That's fair enough, although networking is rather important for career advancement too (especially in corporate-related majors or so have I heard)

[Bear Stearns]

As fun as those are, getting a full two years of full-time earnings and career advancement is even better.

That's fair enough, although networking is rather important for career advancement too (especially in corporate-related majors or so have I heard)

I am very much aware. How do you think shit gets done in banking?

[Great Minarchistan]

That's fair enough, although networking is rather important for career advancement too (especially in corporate-related majors or so have I heard)

I am very much aware. How do you think shit gets done in banking?

preemptive F at non-target graduates like me in the future

[The NuMegadonian Empire]

As I was just having this argument IRL. I feel as though, forgiving student loan debt goes against the very system that fuels America and the economy. This system being, capitalism. Similarly no politician, despite how much they promise, will ever be able to erase student loan debt. The honest truth is that you can go to school for free, if you work hard enough to receive scholarships. This burden falls on the parents as well because they have to instruct their children on the nature of the real world. Instead of perpetuating the blissful ignorance of childhood. Secondly, the option of going to more affordable schools is one that is constantly overlooked. There is now way I would go to a university, knowing that I am going to be in massive debt once I graduate. And yet, some people do it.

[Chestaan]

If the plan was just to forgive student debt then that indeed would be dumb. However proponents of this also plan to reduce the cost of third level education

[Bear Stearns]

I am very much aware. How do you think shit gets done in banking?

preemptive F at non-target graduates like me in the future

Don't sell yourself short. I went to a non-target as well.

[Galloism]

I'd like to give Warren some credit on this one - her plan explicitly excludes income recognition on this forgiveness. This shows a certain attention to detail I appreciate.

Otherwise, if you had a person with a $50,000 loan, paying about $5,000 per year, they would likely get immediately shoved into the 22% or 24% tax bracket, and assume an average of 5% tax at the state level, they would immediately incur a $12,000 to $15,000 tax bill due and payable by April 15 of the year following the cancellation. So it would immediately increase cash requirements (even if it's long term beneficial).

Warren including the tax considerations shows some planning and forethought here.

[Saiwania]

Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

No way, it's unfair to all the people who had to pay up for their education. Many don't want to go back to school just to be able to try to benefit from having tons of taxes being placed on them to pay for other people's education.

[The Emerald Legion]

The government should stop guaranteeing student loans, forcing lenders to actually be diligent about who they give loans to, meaning that the only people who will receive student loans will the be people least likely to default/most likely to pay them back, i.e. students with good credit, STEM, and business majors.

Humanities & liberal arts will return to once more only being studied by the rich kids who can afford full tuition.

Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

Why would you want to ruin colleges?

[Bear Stearns]

The government should stop guaranteeing student loans, forcing lenders to actually be diligent about who they give loans to, meaning that the only people who will receive student loans will the be people least likely to default/most likely to pay them back, i.e. students with good credit, STEM, and business majors.

Humanities & liberal arts will return to once more only being studied by the rich kids who can afford full tuition.

Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

You've have to make college more selective and necessarily increase the amount of jobs that don't require a degree for this to work.

[Immoren]

The government should stop guaranteeing student loans, forcing lenders to actually be diligent about who they give loans to, meaning that the only people who will receive student loans will the be people least likely to default/most likely to pay them back, i.e. students with good credit, STEM, and business majors.

Humanities & liberal arts will return to once more only being studied by the rich kids who can afford full tuition.

Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

And pay every student a lump sum of money per month with student loan as option if they want to live slightly larger. *Nods*

[Purpelia]

Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

No way, it's unfair to all the people who had to pay up for their education. Many don't want to go back to school just to be able to try to benefit from having tons of taxes being placed on them to pay for other people's education.

Those costs more than pay them self off in the long run when these students enter the workforce and start paying taxes that support your state provided retirement fund, infrastructure, free healthcare and other tax funded benefits. Well, in a civilized nation anyway. I guess in the case of america it really is as you say.

[Saiwania]

You've have to make college more selective and necessarily increase the amount of jobs that don't require a degree for this to work.

And if colleges don't consider me "good enough" because they're more "selective" I don't think I want my money going to them even if its taxes. I don't want to pay just so some kids can go learn some liberal claptrap or if they're in STEM, some skills that'll enable them to push you out of your job because you're old and washed up while they're young and full of potential from a business standpoint.

[Duvniask]

Cutting taxes was inevitable in a way. It couldn't be stopped because the previous situation was no good in the long run. The demand side economy in the US just led to the Carter years of Stagflation. There was enough backlash to liberal economics until it was ultimately replaced with trickle down and nobody looked back for 40+ years until 2008's financial crash.

People just get tired of a top marginal tax rate of 70%+ over time.

The rich werent taxed nearly as much as the statutory top rate dictated, mostly due to the marginal system and due to deductions and boundaries. I love to see people shitting on trickle down for those purposes when the avg tax rate paid by the top 1% didnt change that much since roosevelt

What you fail to mention here, is that who belongs to the top 1% of today is different from past decades. The total national income share of the top 1% (and top 0.1% for that matter) has increased quite a lot since the 1950s, where the marginal income tax rate was 91% for most of the decade. It applied to incomes above $200,000 per year (link). Adjusted for inflation, in 2019, that would be equal to $2,125,668.05. In 1950, few households even had as much as $10,000 in yearly income. Even among the top 1%, very few would've qualified for it to begin with. It is no coincidence the rich of today are so much more disproportionally rich than they were in the past (at least in America); there are no longer high marginal tax rates discouraging income bargaining, or rent-seeking, by the rich. You are comparing apples to oranges and would do well to keep that in mind.

[Bear Stearns]

The rich werent taxed nearly as much as the statutory top rate dictated, mostly due to the marginal system and due to deductions and boundaries. I love to see people shitting on trickle down for those purposes when the avg tax rate paid by the top 1% didnt change that much since roosevelt

What you fail to mention here, is that who belongs to the top 1% of today is different from past decades. The total national income share of the top 1% (and top 0.1% for that matter) has increased quite a lot since the 1950s, where the marginal income tax rate was 91% for most of the decade. It applied to incomes above $200,000 per year (link). Adjusted for inflation, in 2019, that would be equal to $2,125,668.05. In 1950, few households even had as much as $10,000 in yearly income. Even among the top 1%, very few would've qualified for it to begin with. It is no coincidence the rich of today are so much more disproportionally rich than they were in the past (at least in America); there are no longer high marginal tax rates discouraging income bargaining, or rent-seeking, by the rich. You are comparing apples to oranges and would do well to keep that in mind.

The population of rich people was a lot smaller too. Less than a thousand families were even in that tax bracket.

[Ifreann]

Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

No way, it's unfair to all the people who had to pay up for their education.

I completely do not care how much it upsets some people that a thing they paid for becomes free. Let them cry.

Many don't want to go back to school just to be able to try to benefit from having tons of taxes being placed on them to pay for other people's education.

Okay? Whatever.

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Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

Why would you want to ruin colleges?

Because I'm the sort of terrible person who wants institutes of education to focus educating people, profits be damned.

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Alternatively, make college free for students and then no one has to take out loans to go to college.

You've have to make college more selective and necessarily increase the amount of jobs that don't require a degree for this to work.

Everyone who wants to go to college should be able to.

[The Emerald Legion]

No way, it's unfair to all the people who had to pay up for their education.

I completely do not care how much it upsets some people that a thing they paid for becomes free. Let them cry.

Many don't want to go back to school just to be able to try to benefit from having tons of taxes being placed on them to pay for other people's education.

Okay? Whatever.

---

Why would you want to ruin colleges?

Because I'm the sort of terrible person who wants institutes of education to focus educating people, profits be damned.

---

You've have to make college more selective and necessarily increase the amount of jobs that don't require a degree for this to work.

Everyone who wants to go to college should be able to.

I mean. You would also destroy their ability to educate as well.

[Ifreann]

I completely do not care how much it upsets some people that a thing they paid for becomes free. Let them cry.

Okay? Whatever.

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Because I'm the sort of terrible person who wants institutes of education to focus educating people, profits be damned.

---

Everyone who wants to go to college should be able to.

I mean. You would also destroy their ability to educate as well.

Nah.

[Bear Stearns]

You've have to make college more selective and necessarily increase the amount of jobs that don't require a degree for this to work.

Everyone who wants to go to college should be able to.

Assuming they are smart enough to test in, sure.

[Australian rePublic]

Are you forgetting FEE HELP (Formally HECS). You don't pay till you earn enough, and you only pay what you can afford. Seems pretty fair to me

[The Emerald Legion]

I mean. You would also destroy their ability to educate as well.

Nah.

Then clearly you don't know jack about how education works.