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Trouble in Jammu & Kashmir

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The Hindustani State
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Postby The Hindustani State » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:20 am

Kowani wrote:Can’t we just…split Kashmir?

:rofl:

Please, westerners, research a little on the situation before making posts akin to saying “Can’t we just ban bad people from buying guns and give them to good people?”
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:22 am

Kowani wrote:Can’t we just…split Kashmir?

Sure. India gets the entire northern half of Pakistan and Afghanistan gets the rest.
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The Hindustani State
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Postby The Hindustani State » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:22 am

Hindu Mahasabha wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Who said that?

Now the Kashmiri pandits can return back to their home after 30 years.

Amen
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:24 am

Samudera Darussalam wrote:
Bluelight-R006 wrote:From what I’ve heard, the entire territory of Kashmir is disputed. Though there are some internationally recognised borders.

Same. De facto though, it's divided between India, Pakistan, and China.

I do wonder....the problem in Jammu and Kashmir has something to do with the Partition, right?

Pretty much. Originally the leader of Kashmir wanted to join India but the people didn’t so Pakistan invaded and the government of Kashmir called for India to help
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:27 am

The Hindustani State wrote:
Kowani wrote:Can’t we just…split Kashmir?

:rofl:

Please, westerners, research a little on the situation before making posts akin to saying “Can’t we just ban bad people from buying guns and give them to good people?”

True splitting Kashmir isn't an option that the people there want. India should leave Kashmir since the people living there don't want them.
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The Hindustani State
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Postby The Hindustani State » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:28 am

Heloin wrote:
The Hindustani State wrote: :rofl:

Please, westerners, research a little on the situation before making posts akin to saying “Can’t we just ban bad people from buying guns and give them to good people?”

True splitting Kashmir isn't an option that the people there want. India should leave Kashmir since the people living there don't want them.

They ousted Kasmiri Pandits decades ago, now its time for them to return
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The Hindustani State
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Postby The Hindustani State » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:30 am

Heloin wrote:
The Hindustani State wrote: :rofl:

Please, westerners, research a little on the situation before making posts akin to saying “Can’t we just ban bad people from buying guns and give them to good people?”

True splitting Kashmir isn't an option that the people there want. India should leave Kashmir since the people living there don't want them.

Also… Kasmiris in J&K prefer India to Pakistan
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Jean-Paul Sartre
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Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:31 am

The world is about to end in fire, and it’s the fault of fundies.
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Postby Otira » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:32 am

Duhon wrote:GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN WHAT EVEN THE FUCK IS HAPPENING --

Prominent politicians in Indian-administered Kashmir have been placed under house arrest, while communications to Kashmir valley have been cut off following a security crackdown and fears of unrest.

Phone and internet services are reportedly down in Kashmir valley, where public gatherings have been banned and schools closed.

Last week thousands of tourists and pilgrims were ordered to leave the area, after the Indian government warned of a terror threat posed to pilgrim routes.

A major security build up, including the deployment of 10,000 extra troops, has prompted fears that Delhi is preparing to scrap Kashmir’s special status, which prevents people from outside of the state from buying land in the territory. Many Kashmiris fear that abolishing the state’s special status would fundamentally change the demography of the Muslim-majority territory.

The ruling Bharatiya Janata party (BJP) has repeatedly pledged to scrap such rules, though analysts warn that doing so would create instability and heighten tension with Pakistan.

In the early hours of Monday, several political leaders said they had been placed under house arrest, including Jammu and Kashmir’s former chief minister Mehbooba Mufti and Sajjad Lone, chairman of People’s Conference.

On Sunday evening, Omar Abdullah, the scion of a prominent political family in Kashmir, and former chief minister in the state, said he believed he would be placed under house arrest. Other “mainstream leaders” – meaning Kashmiri politicians who have formed alliances with parties such as the BJP – would be detained, he added.

Political leaders in Kashmir met on Sunday, where they vowed to protect Kashmir’s special status, and warned against an escalation of tensions between Pakistan and India.

Kashmir is claimed by India and Pakistan in full and ruled in part by both. An insurgency on the Indian-administered side has been ongoing for three decades, and tens of thousands of people have been killed.

India’s prime minister, Narendra Modi, will chair a cabinet meetingon Monday morning, when an announcement is expected.

Before internet services were cut, Mufti said on Twitter: “How ironic that elected representatives like us who fought for peace are under house arrest. The world watches as people & their voices are being muzzled in J&K. The same Kashmir that chose a secular democratic India is facing oppression of unimaginable magnitude. Wake up India.”

Abdullah called for people to stay safe and remain calm. “To the people of Kashmir, we don’t know what is in store for us but I am a firm believer that what ever Almighty Allah has planned it is always for the better, we may not see it now but we must never doubt his ways,” he said on Twitter.

Over the weekend, people in Indian-administered Kashmir queued for hours outside petrol stations and cash machines, as curfews and evacuations continued to be imposed on hospitals and educational institutions.


Here's the gist: during the last few days, tens of thousands of Indian troops have been deployed to Jammu and Kashmir, following an order for foreigners to leave that part of the country as well as moves to cut off all communications between Kashmir and the outside world. Leading Kashmiri politicians (a number of whom are allied to the ruling BJP) have also been placed under house arrest, all for the coup de grace: the Modi administration, fresh off a second election victory against the INC in 5 years and riding high upon patriotic feeling for which its recent skirmish with Pakistan was both symptom and outlet, has announced to its parliament its intention of repealing Article 370 of the Indian constitution, giving significant autonomy and full exemption from the rest of the Indian constitution to Jammu & Kashmir, to be replaced by a bill which would split the present region into two parts: Jammu & Kashmir, which would be a union territory with its own legislature, and Ladakh, also a territory but lacking a legislature of its own.

Goodness knows what will happen next, though the sinking pit in my gut tells me a great bloodbath will soon commence, out of sight, out of mind. Why else would the Indian army be deployed in such numbers, tensions with Pakistan or no?

On a related note, too: do all of you guys have a fucking death wish?


Can you link your news source?

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The Hindustani State
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Postby The Hindustani State » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 am

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Why does anyone care about Kashmir? It’s literally just a bunch of mountains, it can’t be worth dying over except for irrational need to have territory.

It’s home to many Kashmiri Pandit temples, including the Kheer Bhawani, which is one of the holiest places in Hinduism. Muslims own Mecca, Jews own the West Wall, is it too much to ask for Hindus to own the Kheer Bhawani Temple?
Last edited by The Hindustani State on Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:35 am

The Hindustani State wrote:
Heloin wrote:True splitting Kashmir isn't an option that the people there want. India should leave Kashmir since the people living there don't want them.

Also… Kasmiris in J&K prefer India to Pakistan

You can tell because there's no insurgency in Kashmir. No popular unrest. No protests. Isn't it clear that they love India...
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Postby The Hindustani State » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:37 am

Heloin wrote:
The Hindustani State wrote:Also… Kasmiris in J&K prefer India to Pakistan

You can tell because there's no insurgency in Kashmir. No popular unrest. No protests. Isn't it clear that they love India...

There’s protests to end the violence, sure, in POK too. Did you forget that Pakistan encouraged the exodus of Kasmiri Pandits?
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Jean-Paul Sartre
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Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:38 am

The Hindustani State wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Why does anyone care about Kashmir? It’s literally just a bunch of mountains, it can’t be worth dying over except for irrational need to have territory.

It’s home to many Kashmiri Panidt temples, including the Kheer Bhawani, which is one of the holiest places in Hinduism. Muslims own Mecca, Jews own the West Wall, is it too much to ask for Hindus to own the Kheer Bhawani Temple?

If it leads to thermonuclear war, it is too much to ask. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, and the rest of the world don’t deserve to die because sky fairies they don’t believe in supposedly did something in an area at war. Furthermore, India is a secular government (or supposed to be), so this is irrelevant.
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Postby Andsed » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:41 am

I would suggest a referendum but I doubt either India, China, or Pakistan would honor it if it did not go their way. So instead I am just going to hope no one decides this is worth starting a war over.
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Postby The Hindustani State » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:42 am

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
The Hindustani State wrote:It’s home to many Kashmiri Panidt temples, including the Kheer Bhawani, which is one of the holiest places in Hinduism. Muslims own Mecca, Jews own the West Wall, is it too much to ask for Hindus to own the Kheer Bhawani Temple?

If it leads to thermonuclear war, it is too much to ask. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, and the rest of the world don’t deserve to die because sky fairies they don’t believe in supposedly did something in an area at war. Furthermore, India is a secular government (or supposed to be), so this is irrelevant.

Pakistan and China bar Indians from making pilgrimages, so it’s hurting Hindus, the majority of whom are Indian citizens, from going to one of the holiest sites
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Jean-Paul Sartre
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Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:45 am

The Hindustani State wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:If it leads to thermonuclear war, it is too much to ask. Atheists, Christians, Muslims, and the rest of the world don’t deserve to die because sky fairies they don’t believe in supposedly did something in an area at war. Furthermore, India is a secular government (or supposed to be), so this is irrelevant.

Pakistan and China bar Indians from making pilgrimages, so it’s hurting Hindus, the majority of whom are Indian citizens, from going to one of the holiest sites

That’s unfortunate. That does not justify war or elevating nuclear tensions.
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Postby Heloin » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:45 am

The Hindustani State wrote:
Heloin wrote:You can tell because there's no insurgency in Kashmir. No popular unrest. No protests. Isn't it clear that they love India...

There’s protests to end the violence, sure, in POK too. Did you forget that Pakistan encouraged the exodus of Kasmiri Pandits?

You know the even if every Kasmiri Pandit returned to Kashmir that the Muslims in Kashmir, who want to be part of Pakistan, would still make up a super majority.
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Postby Novus America » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:46 am

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:The world is about to end in fire, and it’s the fault of fundies.


Even if Pakistan, India (and even China) go full nuclear on each other, the world will not end.
Last edited by Novus America on Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Otira » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:48 am

What if we partition Pakistan and India into multiple Kashmir-like states? Would that fix the problem?

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Postby Heloin » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:48 am

Novus America wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:The world is about to end in fire, and it’s the fault of fundies.


Even if Pakistan and Pakistan go full nuclear on each other, the world will not end.

The world wouldn't end if one country blew itself up no :p

If Pakistan and India went full nuclear the world also wouldn't end but it wouldn't help anything either.
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Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:52 am

Novus America wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:The world is about to end in fire, and it’s the fault of fundies.


Even if Pakistan, India (and even China) go full nuclear on each other, the world will not end.

The number of nukes that it would take to end humanity is estimated at 100 by many researchers. Combined, they have more than that.
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:55 am

Novus America wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:The world is about to end in fire, and it’s the fault of fundies.


Even if Pakistan, India (and even China) go full nuclear on each other, the world will not end.

India would likely be able to absorb the nuclear exchange better than Pakistan would, because of the larger territory. Pakistan would probably collapse as a state. It goes without saying that the entire thing would be horrific, but just in terms of estimating the existential consequences for each state I'd say Pakistan would be a lot worse off.
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Postby Novus America » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:57 am

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Even if Pakistan, India (and even China) go full nuclear on each other, the world will not end.

The number of nukes that it would take to end humanity is estimated at 100 by many researchers. Combined, they have more than that.


Based on the discredited nuclear winter theory.
Anyways more 100 already have been detonated.

The burning of oil wells in Kuwait proved that even if firestorms happened (nuclear weapons actually do not cause them in more modern cities) that the effects of mass fires are short lived and localized.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/0210/5903123a.html
Last edited by Novus America on Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Postby Neo Kerala » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:01 am

Pacomia wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Why does anyone care about Kashmir? It’s literally just a bunch of mountains, it can’t be worth dying over except for irrational need to have territory.

Might be strategic, who knows?

Or maybe it’s just a desire to look bigger on a map. It’s probably that.

Perfect place to nuke each other’s capitalism and guard during an invasion

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Postby Alvecia » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:02 am

Novus America wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:The number of nukes that it would take to end humanity is estimated at 100 by many researchers. Combined, they have more than that.


Based on the discredited nuclear winter theory.
Anyways more 100 already have been detonated.

The burning of oil wells in Kuwait proved that even if firestorms happened (nuclear weapons actually do not cause them in more modern cities) that the effects of mass fires are short lived and localized.

From what I can tell the 100 figures comes from what a "pragmatic quantity of nuclear weapons for any nation to have" would be.
Here, I think.
"With 100 nuclear weapons, you still get nuclear deterrence, but avoid the probable blowback from nuclear autumn that kills your own people,"


Edit: And I think the point is that 100 simultaneous targeted strikes would be enough. Not 100 spaced out tests in remote areas.
Last edited by Alvecia on Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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