Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVII: The Snark Enlightenment

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Ah, another Pennsylvanian NSer. Which part of the state? I'm from Northeastern Pennsylvania, the "coal region" if you will.

Eastern PA, closer to NJ. That's about as specific as I'll get.

Are you in or near Allentown, Bethlehem, or Easton by any chance? The college/university I'll be attending is in that general region.

[Bear Stearns]

I'm aware.

I'm only two degrees of separation away from him (a family member is friends with a friend of Epstein).

Ah yes the world is small sometimes.

Which in turn means that every RWDT regular is, in a way, only three degrees of separation away from Epstein...

Given that the population of the 1% in America isn't very big, and most of them at least tangentially know each other, if you know one of them, you are only a few degrees of separation away from the rest.

Before I was in investment banking, I worked in wealth management dealing with ultra high net worth clients (at least $10mm in liquid net worth). These guys all know each other.

[Bear Stearns]

Oh God.

Why do I have to share a border with you people?

Something you Anglo Protestants have been saying since 1690...

French-Canadians aren't bad people, they just have a strong redneck vibe to them lol.

[Nova Cyberia]

Eastern PA, closer to NJ. That's about as specific as I'll get.

Are you in or near Allentown, Bethlehem, or Easton by any chance? The college/university I'll be attending is in that general region.

I know those areas.

[Nova Cyberia]

Something you Anglo Protestants have been saying since 1690...

French-Canadians aren't bad people, they just have a strong redneck vibe to them lol.

They really do. They're just like rednecks in America. They seem to relish being hated by other Canadians.

[The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord]

Are you in or near Allentown, Bethlehem, or Easton by any chance? The college/university I'll be attending is in that general region.

I know those areas.

Ah, my bad. I should have realized that not everyone is as open to discussing personal matters as I am. I'll drop the topic.

Yep. We're talking about Mr. Epstein's Bond-villain-esque eugenics scheme, among other things.

I was foolish for not believing it at first. Wow, that is just odd.

Yep. This is thoroughly wack, I must say. I bet this super-villainy runs deep.

[Nova Cyberia]

These trolls have zero creativity with their usernames.

[Nea Byzantia]

Something you Anglo Protestants have been saying since 1690...

French-Canadians aren't bad people, they just have a strong redneck vibe to them lol.

Which makes them awesome...I much prefer them to English Canucks in general. They're a lot of fun.

[Nea Byzantia]

French-Canadians aren't bad people, they just have a strong redneck vibe to them lol.

They really do. They're just like rednecks in America. They seem to relish being hated by other Canadians.

You mean the Anglo ones? Yes - and they hate them too. Canada is a Country of at least two Nations: the Anglos and the French-Canadians.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

[Redacted]

Go find something else to do. You ain't amusing anyone, and your making it even less likely for your DOS to expire.

[Bear Stearns]

They really do. They're just like rednecks in America. They seem to relish being hated by other Canadians.

You mean the Anglo ones? Yes - and they hate them too. Canada is a Country of at least two Nations: the Anglos and the French-Canadians.

Anglo-Canada should be part of the United States.

[Washington Resistance Army]

tbh if you're gonna spam troll accounts at least be creative with it, this shit is just sad

[LiberNovusAmericae]

[Retracted]

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

It was one facet of the broader discussion. My objective was to refute two principal insinuations, namely the insinuation that the Russian Revolution represented a foreign, Jewish phenomenon in Russian culture and that Bolshevik atrocities occurred principally on an ethnic basis as revenge for the persecution of Jews.

You must be confusing me for someone else. Bolshevik atroctities were never topics of debate between us.

I wholly concede that the Ashkenazim played a disproportionate rule, but the notion that they guided or controlled the Revolution is silly, especially when we move beyond the initial years. The actual establishment and solidification of Soviet government was characterized by the gradual imposition of Russian language and mores on subjugated populations, a continuation of older imperial policies.

You mean when we move into the era of Stalin? I have already agreed that past the 1930s Stalin removed lots of Ashkenazi influence because of his antisemitism. All of our debate has been focused on the years before his rise to power.

I was talking more of Trofim Denisovich Lysenko, an ethnic Ukrainian, who developed many of the wrong-headed and frankly asinine theories that would be implemented in the Ukraine. Yes, other people actually implemented and executed his policy suggestions, but the term Lysenkoism comes down to us for a reason. One example was that planting seeds close together didn't hinder crop yields because "plants from the same class never compete with one another."

Lysenko? Really? Sure, he did develop some of those hair-brained theories about farming, but the Holodomor wasn't really caused by those. The mass deaths were the results of the Soviet authorities seizing food, their collectivization campaign, restricting aid and transport, and, of course, outright destroying the kulaks. Lysenkoism isn't really associated with starving out a population, but rather outright rejection of science.
I've never heard of Lysenko being associated with the Holodomor.

Well, it is given that I was talking about Lysenko, whose theories these people were often implementing at the behest of Stalin.

Lysenko's theories didn't include the destruction of the kulaks as a class or the deliberate starvation of an entire SSR. In fact, I think on of the main reasons Lysenko became influential in the sciences was because the Soviet leaders were desperate after the widespread famine of 1932-33.
Never thought I would be defending a Soviet, but there you are.

You should probably mention Stanisław Vikentyevich Kosior,

This is true, only I didn't consider his role in the Holodomor as important as the others.

Vyacheslav Rudolfovich Menzhinsky (Yagoda's boss),

Menzhinsky was an invalid and Yagoda had taken over day-to-day operations by the 1920s.

and Vlas Yakovlevich Chubar, who all played integral roles in what occurred, as well, but then you mentioned Chubar above.

I can't find much to implicate Chubar. He seems to have objected to the plan (at least at first). I'm sure he complied with orders from above if only to save his neck, though.

[Fahran]

Can we please stop responding to blatant spam and stick to the subject of this thread? Oh, by the way, some of y'all promised me treatises on your politics. I want to read those still.

[Fahran]

You must be confusing me for someone else. Bolshevik atroctities were never topics of debate between us.

You sort of stumbled into a preexisting debate between me and Nea, and a lot of the Russian sources that have been quoted do implicitly attempt to put the blame for Bolshevik atrocities on Jews as an ethnic group while exonerating ethnic Russians of all responsibility for what occurred.

You mean when we move into the era of Stalin? I have already agreed that past the 1930s Stalin removed lots of Ashkenazi influence because of his antisemitism. All of our debate has been focused on the years before his rise to power.

I meant the period towards the close of Lenin's life, encompassing the jockeying for power between the Bolsheviks that followed Lenin's death, and towards the beginning of Stalin's consolidation of power. The Bolsheviks actively suppressed a good many ethnic communities, including Jewish communities, a process that began in 1919. Additionally, Jewish representation seems to have peaked between 1919 and 1922. By the time of Lenin's death, what had been a plurality in some areas and an over-represented minority in others was beginning to dwindle, a process that increased pace in the 1930's. You can observe that as you move over government organs from 1919 to 1925.

Lysenko? Really? Sure, he did develop some of those hair-brained theories about farming, but the Holodomor wasn't really caused by those. The mass deaths were the results of the Soviet authorities seizing food, their collectivization campaign, restricting aid and transport, and, of course, outright destroying the kulaks. Lysenkoism isn't really associated with starving out a population, but rather outright rejection of science.

That outright rejection/suppression of genetics, botany, agricultural theory, and science more broadly provided the ideological framework that would guide the coercive collectivization efforts in Ukraine and incite persecution of the kulaks. Hence why I called him, together with Stalin, the principal architect of the Holodomor. The people you mentioned mostly adhered to the vision that was offered to them.

I've never heard of Lysenko being associated with the Holodomor.

It's mentioned in his Wikipedia article of all places - not to mention quite a few books and articles.

Lysenko's theories didn't include the destruction of the kulaks as a class or the deliberate starvation of an entire SSR. In fact, I think on of the main reasons Lysenko became influential in the sciences was because the Soviet leaders were desperate after the widespread famine of 1932-33.

Lysenko's ideas directly contributed to the famine.

Source.

I can't find much to implicate Chubar. He seems to have objected to the plan (at least at first). I'm sure he complied with orders from above if only to save his neck, though.

I believe the three I mentioned were indicted posthumously by courts in Ukraine, with substantial evidence being compiled.

[The Grand Duchy Of Nova Capile]

You sort of stumbled into a preexisting debate between me and Nea, and a lot of the Russian sources that have been quoted do implicitly attempt to put the blame for Bolshevik atrocities on Jews as an ethnic group while exonerating ethnic Russians of all responsibility for what occurred.

I haven't quoted these sources, then, nor have I attempted at any point to blame Soviet atrocities on Jews.

I meant the period towards the close of Lenin's life, encompassing the jockeying for power between the Bolsheviks that followed Lenin's death, and towards the beginning of Stalin's consolidation of power. The Bolsheviks actively suppressed a good many ethnic communities, including Jewish communities, a process that began in 1919. Additionally, Jewish representation seems to have peaked between 1919 and 1922. By the time of Lenin's death, what had been a plurality in some areas and an over-represented minority in others was beginning to dwindle, a process that increased pace in the 1930's. You can observe that as you move over government organs from 1919 to 1925.

Again, all persecution before Stalin was directed at religious Jews, and the same persecution was endured by Christians and Muslims, too.

That outright rejection/suppression of genetics, botany, agricultural theory, and science more broadly provided the ideological framework that would guide the coercive collectivization efforts in Ukraine and incite persecution of the kulaks. Hence why I called him, together with Stalin, the principal architect of the Holodomor. The people you mentioned mostly adhered to the vision that was offered to them.

I fail to see how Lysenko's half-baked theories about genetics called for collectivization, the mass-murder of the kulaks, and the stifling of the Ukrainian nationalist movement through a man-made famine. He was in no way the architect of the Holodomor.

It's mentioned in his Wikipedia article of all places - not to mention quite a few books and articles.

It's mentioned in one sentence in his Wikipedia article referencing an article by the Atlantic- and in the very same sentence: "but the arguments for this claim remain unclear."
Kindly direct me to condemning evidence which frames Lysenko as the architect of the Holodomor.

Lysenko's ideas directly contributed to the famine.

How? The famine was caused because of collectivization and poor Soviet management of the collectivized farmland, not to mention the seizure of foodstuffs and the refusal of the Soviet government to give aid to beleaguered Ukrainians (not to mention the exile or outright execution of the kulaks).
Lysenko is only tangentially related.

Source.

Again, that is one flimsy sentence which casts doubt upon itself in its final clause.

I believe the three I mentioned were indicted posthumously by courts in Ukraine, with substantial evidence being compiled.

Eh, yeah, but that was decades after the fact and considering it was all done in Ukraine, I'm fairly sure it was biased. I've yet to see any evidence to convince me that Chubar played a decisive role in the Holodomor.

[Bienenhalde]

French-Canadians aren't bad people, they just have a strong redneck vibe to them lol.

Which makes them awesome...I much prefer them to English Canucks in general. They're a lot of fun.

Tbh, French-Canadians nowadays are too liberal. There is not a single right-wing party in the Legislative Assembly of Quebec.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Which makes them awesome...I much prefer them to English Canucks in general. They're a lot of fun.

Tbh, French-Canadians nowadays are too liberal. There is not a single right-wing party in the Legislative Assembly of Quebec.

I guess they subscribe to left-wing nationalism, similar to the Irish.

[Kowani]

Which makes them awesome...I much prefer them to English Canucks in general. They're a lot of fun.

Tbh, French-Canadians nowadays are too liberal. There is not a single right-wing party in the Legislative Assembly of Quebec.

I’m not hearing any downsides...

[Diopolis]

Can we please stop responding to blatant spam and stick to the subject of this thread? Oh, by the way, some of y'all promised me treatises on your politics. I want to read those still.

It was posted in the last thread.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Can we please stop responding to blatant spam and stick to the subject of this thread? Oh, by the way, some of y'all promised me treatises on your politics. I want to read those still.

It was posted in the last thread.

There was a DOS player who spammed this thread up and some of us replied to it. Those posts have been removed, but Fahran was telling us not to indulge the DOS.

[Nea Byzantia]

You mean the Anglo ones? Yes - and they hate them too. Canada is a Country of at least two Nations: the Anglos and the French-Canadians.

Anglo-Canada should be part of the United States.

You know that was tried already in 1812...Remember what happened?

Let me jog your memory...

(The only thing Anglo Canadians can pretty much all agree on is how they don't want to be American, and think you guys are lame. I think its the Loyalist thing)

[Nea Byzantia]

Which makes them awesome...I much prefer them to English Canucks in general. They're a lot of fun.

Tbh, French-Canadians nowadays are too liberal. There is not a single right-wing party in the Legislative Assembly of Quebec.

They used to be the most Conservative (and Catholic) Province in Canada - before the 1960s, that is.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Tbh, French-Canadians nowadays are too liberal. There is not a single right-wing party in the Legislative Assembly of Quebec.

They used to be the most Conservative (and Catholic) Province in Canada - before the 1960s, that is.

I'm sure the scandals the Catholic Church got caught up in did not help things.