NationStates

All right, lads. My very large brain has a question.

If you could go back in time what would have been your ideal version of the Treaty of Versailles? Or would have preferred that the Entente never win at all?

Kowani wrote:The People’s Crusade, though…

And the Children's Crusade.

Nea Byzantia wrote:

Napkizemlja wrote:That is a given but to say that religion wasn't the driving force is wrong. The main non-religious factor was Pope Urban II attempt at quelling the numerous petty wars between knights and the lower nobility as well as attempting to increase Papal authority on the nobility of Europe.

Religion was a driving factor on the surface. On a political level, the Pope wanted to bring the Orthodox to heel; and the Italian banking clans wanted a piece of the Silk Road and the economic prosperity of the East.

Hardly, the Crusaders actually gave the Byzantines space to recover under the Komnenos dynasty and at times the crusader realms and the Byzantines were quite close allies. The banks at the time were merchant banks and barely had developed, not to mention being dominated by the Italian Jewish community, hardly something that the 11th century Papacy is going to go to war on behalf of. It was the crusades themselves that stimulated more refined forms of banking in order to finance the expeditions, with the primary institutions being holy orders like the Knights Templar and Knights Hospitaller. The Italian merchant dynasties commonly associated with medieval Italy didn't start having their influence felt until the 13th century and would not come into their political prime until the 14th century.

nb the only good crusade was the fourth crusade.

Venetia delenda est

byzboos get out

The Liberated Territories wrote:nb the only good crusade was the fourth crusade.

Venetia delenda est

byzboos get out

Venice needs to be destroyed?

Yes, I agree. Or at least live under the Austrian boot.

Salus Maior wrote:That you're a racist and a xenophobe that adheres to a bullshit ideology?

Surely you're not that humourless? I know I criticised OT for getting too worked up over people joking about Anglicans, but this is something else.

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:That you're a racist and a xenophobe that adheres to a bullshit ideology?

Surely you're not that humourless? I know I criticised OT for getting too worked up over people joking about Anglicans, but this is something else.

Calling Africans "darkies" and then praising German atrocities against Baltics doesn't make for a good impression.

Not everything can be retracted by saying "It's a joke, bro!". If you don't believe in those things, maybe don't say them.

Salus Maior wrote:

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Surely you're not that humourless? I know I criticised OT for getting too worked up over people joking about Anglicans, but this is something else.

Calling Africans "darkies" and then praising German atrocities against Baltics doesn't make for a good impression.

Not everything can be retracted by saying "It's a joke, bro!". If you don't believe in those things, maybe don't say them.

I have to disagree with you here my fellow CIA plant. We have to be able to say things in order to trigger the proper response from various sleeper cells across the web. I assure you all it is for the great good of humanity.

Salus Maior wrote:Calling Africans "darkies" and then praising German atrocities against Baltics doesn't make for a good impression.

Not everything can be retracted by saying "It's a joke, bro!". If you don't believe in those things, maybe don't say them.

I'm talking about the Know-Nothing joke, which I think was incredibly obvious. It seems to me that you did know that, and just used it as a beating stick for my other comments. I don't appreciate that. If you don't like what I said, then say it, rather than mischaracterise my position or wilfully misinterpret what I said.

An example, acclaimed Wife beater John Lennon makes a song called "Woman is the nigger of the world", and gets shot when a "rabid fan" listens to it, and has his code activated. Thank you for your service to the United States, Ms. Ono.

Nea Byzantia wrote:

Fahran wrote:The Pope actually excommunicated those who participated in the ill-fated 5th Crusade if I recall correctly.

You're thinking of the Fourth Crusade, and the excommunication of the sackers of Constantinople was just some political kabuki to keep the critics at home quiet. The Pontifex Maximus had no problem profiting off of the cheap shot to Eastern Rome.

I really don’t know it’s so hard to discuss Pope Innocent III about outside of polemics and baseless accusations which are peddled as propaganda, but here we are. They were excommunicated for sacking Zara, a Christian City, and that was lifted at their repentance, though at the time, as the letter was sent, they were already on their way to Constantinople with a Byzantine Prince (way to be your own downfall?), and after hearing about the Sack of Constantinople, were excommunicated. Mind that information didn’t travel instantly like today, it took weeks to months for letters to move. This was again lifted for two reasons (1) the Crusaders repentance, and (2) was a fait accompli, why wouldn’t Innocent III accept God’s reuniting the East and West?

I don’t want to even mention the planning of the Fourth Crusade.

Salus Maior wrote:

The Liberated Territories wrote:nb the only good crusade was the fourth crusade.

Venetia delenda est

byzboos get out

Venice needs to be destroyed?

Yes, I agree. Or at least live under the Austrian boot.

herp derp

what is latin for constantinople?

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:Calling Africans "darkies" and then praising German atrocities against Baltics doesn't make for a good impression.

Not everything can be retracted by saying "It's a joke, bro!". If you don't believe in those things, maybe don't say them.

I'm talking about the Know-Nothing joke, which I think was incredibly obvious. It seems to me that you did know that, and just used it as a beating stick for my other comments. I don't appreciate that. If you don't like what I said, then say it, rather than mischaracterise my position or wilfully misinterpret what I said.

I didn't take your claim to be a "Know Nothing" seriously. But I assumed you saying you were a Nativist was a true statement. Likewise I believe that is a bullshit ideology.

Fahran wrote:

Kowani wrote:The People’s Crusade, though…

And the Children's Crusade.

Back in the old days, kids didn't have fancy game consoles to play their Dark Souls. They had to make their own.

Salus Maior wrote:I didn't take your claim to be a "Know Nothing" seriously. But I assumed you saying you were a Nativist was a true statement. Likewise I believe that is a bullshit ideology.

I am not a nativist.

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:I didn't take your claim to be a "Know Nothing" seriously. But I assumed you saying you were a Nativist was a true statement. Likewise I believe that is a bullshit ideology.

I am not a nativist.

Then why say so? What's the joke?

Salus Maior wrote:Then why say so? What's the joke?

It's silly that I have to explain the joke, but here goes...

Bear Stearns posted a pic of Bill Cutting, a character from the movie "Gangs of New York" played by Daniel Day-Lewis. He's a nativist Prot gang leader and an expy of real Know-Nothing and gang leader Bill Poole. I don't have to tell you that Daniel Day-Lewis nails the role, and the joke was a variant of "I'm a Simple Man", because I like Daniel Day-Lewis. Just put a movie appropriate spin on it.

The Liberated Territories wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
Venice needs to be destroyed?

Yes, I agree. Or at least live under the Austrian boot.

herp derp

what is latin for constantinople?

fuck it

byzantium delenda est

Long live Venice, true inheritor of Aquileia, the real Roman Empire!

Salus Maior wrote:

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:Broke: Crusaders are cool
Woke: VIVA CRISTO REY

Angry Mexican militia is cooler than chivalric knights of Christendom?

For Greater Glory was a good movie, though, if you haven’t seen it. Some of those freedom fighters did die as martyrs of the Church.

The Liberated Territories wrote:

The Liberated Territories wrote:
herp derp

what is latin for constantinople?

fuck it

byzantium delenda est

Long live Venice, true inheritor of Aquileia, the real Roman Empire!

The Venetian Republic was pretty neat.

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:Then why say so? What's the joke?

It's silly that I have to explain the joke, but here goes...

Bear Stearns posted a pic of Bill Cutting, a character from the movie "Gangs of New York" played by Daniel Day-Lewis. He's a nativist Prot gang leader and an expy of real Know-Nothing and gang leader Bill Poole. I don't have to tell you that Daniel Day-Lewis nails the role, and the joke was a variant of "I'm a Simple Man", because I like Daniel Day-Lewis. Just put a movie appropriate spin on it.

Also, 19th Century American nativist were just cooler than 21st Century ones, even if the immigration they were fighting against seems rather trivial when compared to today's numbers.

Bear Stearns wrote:

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:It's silly that I have to explain the joke, but here goes...

Bear Stearns posted a pic of Bill Cutting, a character from the movie "Gangs of New York" played by Daniel Day-Lewis. He's a nativist Prot gang leader and an expy of real Know-Nothing and gang leader Bill Poole. I don't have to tell you that Daniel Day-Lewis nails the role, and the joke was a variant of "I'm a Simple Man", because I like Daniel Day-Lewis. Just put a movie appropriate spin on it.

Also, 19th Century American nativist were just cooler than 21st Century ones, even if the immigration they were fighting against seems rather trivial when compared to today's numbers.

I must say that I disagree, in part due to the fact that 19th century (or rather, very early 20th century) nativists considered my ancestors to be borderline sub-human (due to the fact that they originally came from Eastern Europe, the Baltics specifically). Now, I don’t wish to seem “triggered”, but by expressing seeming admiration for said views, one could argue that you’re indirectly calling me sub-human. And if I may of course, that’s not cool, mate. Not cool at all.

The Liberated Territories wrote:

The Liberated Territories wrote:
herp derp

what is latin for constantinople?

fuck it

byzantium delenda est

Long live Venice, true inheritor of Aquileia, the real Roman Empire!

The Sacking of Constantinople was one of the most unfortunate events in history. As were the attacks on Byzantium.

Tbh the greatest defense of Christendom was the Battle of Lechfeld in 955, when King Otto the Great of Germany, and later Holy Roman Emperor, beat back the pagan hordes of Hungary. Stick that into your goulash you horse fetishizing bastards.

Napkizemlja wrote:Tbh the greatest defense of Christendom was the Battle of Lechfeld in 955, when King Otto the Great of Germany, and later Holy Roman Emperor, beat back the pagan hordes of Hungary. Stick that into your goulash you horse fetishizing bastards.

I am inclined to agree.