Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVII: The Snark Enlightenment

[Novus America]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/qz.com/170 ... iland/amp/

Cool, a 6 year old study not related to what I was talking about at all.

Better than your unsourced claim.
Wages in the PRC are quite low compared to US wages. Which is one reason why so many want to come here in the first place.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Cool, a 6 year old study not related to what I was talking about at all.

Better than your unsourced claim.
Wages in the PRC are quite low compared to US wages. Which is one reason why so many want to come here in the first place.

It depends on your social class. Skilled intellectuals make comparable amounts of money.

Also, there's the thing that the PRC's wages grow substantially every single year while ours do not.

[Novus America]

Neither are US skilled STEM workers getting paid average either.
I do not have the exact data for the PRC but for Russia the US pays aerospace engineers more than ten times more.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/ ... rce-a41832

Obviously we are more competitive, far more people there want to come here than our people want to go there.

There are millions applying for US green cards every year.

China is wealthier than Russia. I don't have data but I can tell you from personal experience that skilled intellectuals in China have a comparable lifestyle and income to American skilled intellectuals.

Well the Russian ones are fine to steal. Preferable in some cases as Russia is more advanced in some areas of technology.

And if you have no data, you have nothing.

While Chinese are paying ten of thousands of dollars to try to get US citizenship to their kids.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.market ... th-us/amp/

[Novus America]

Better than your unsourced claim.
Wages in the PRC are quite low compared to US wages. Which is one reason why so many want to come here in the first place.

It depends on your social class. Skilled intellectuals make comparable amounts of money.

Also, there's the thing that the PRC's wages grow substantially every single year while ours do not.

You need to provide some data supporting your claim.
Why do so many want to come to the US?

And if you want anecdotes every Chinese college student I met wanted a green card.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It depends on your social class. Skilled intellectuals make comparable amounts of money.

Also, there's the thing that the PRC's wages grow substantially every single year while ours do not.

You need to provide some data supporting your claim.
Why do so many want to come to the US?

And if you want anecdotes every Chinese college student I met wanted a green card.

Most of the skilled intellectuals go back, but most of the people who come here and stay do so because they fear their children won't make it in the rigid Chinese system, and thus won't be as successful, not because of lack of money. I can't give data with a link, but I can tell you from experience with Chinese STEM grad students and Chinese professors and engineers that I've met that they have a pretty high lifestyle.

[Novus America]

You need to provide some data supporting your claim.
Why do so many want to come to the US?

And if you want anecdotes every Chinese college student I met wanted a green card.

Most of the skilled intellectuals go back, but most of the people who come here and stay do so because they fear their children won't make it in the rigid Chinese system, and thus won't be as successful, not because of lack of money. I can't give data with a link, but I can tell you from experience with Chinese STEM grad students and Chinese professors and engineers that I've met that they have a pretty high lifestyle.

The skilled intellectuals usually go back only because they have no choice. We do no give many students green cards. Which is stupid. We should keep the best ones.

Pretty high is not necessarily as high. And regardless of why they want to come here, they still want to come here. True it is not just wages driving it.

Which is fine. The rich investors visa has a massive backlog of Chinese applicants. So true it is not just wages that make us more competitive.

And certainly Russia is ripe for picking given its atrocious wages for skilled aerospace engineers.

[Napkizemlja]

You do realize that the average private sector worker is not the same as their intellectual elite, right?

Neither are US skilled STEM workers getting paid average either.
I do not have the exact data for the PRC but for Russia the US pays aerospace engineers more than ten times more.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/ ... rce-a41832

Obviously we are more competitive, far more people there want to come here than our people want to go there.

There are millions applying for US green cards every year.

Millions primarily from places that are not Russia.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Most of the skilled intellectuals go back, but most of the people who come here and stay do so because they fear their children won't make it in the rigid Chinese system, and thus won't be as successful, not because of lack of money. I can't give data with a link, but I can tell you from experience with Chinese STEM grad students and Chinese professors and engineers that I've met that they have a pretty high lifestyle.

The skilled intellectuals usually go back only because they have no choice. We do no give many students green cards. Which is stupid. We should keep the best ones.

Pretty high is not necessarily as high. And regardless of why they want to come here, they still want to come here. True it is not just wages driving it.

Which is fine. The rich investors visa has a massive backlog of Chinese applicants. So true it is not just wages that make us more competitive.

And certainly Russia is ripe for picking given its atrocious wages for skilled aerospace engineers.

It depends on how respected you are in the field but people in my family have gotten job offers from China that pay better than what they have here.

[Novus America]

Neither are US skilled STEM workers getting paid average either.
I do not have the exact data for the PRC but for Russia the US pays aerospace engineers more than ten times more.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2014/11/ ... rce-a41832

Obviously we are more competitive, far more people there want to come here than our people want to go there.

There are millions applying for US green cards every year.

Millions primarily from places that are not Russia.

Russia has a fairly small population, especially compared to India and the PRC.

But
https://news.gallup.com/poll/248249/rec ... ussia.aspx

Twenty percent of Russians want out, and the US is the second most popular place they want to go.

[Napkizemlja]

Also, China has attracted a lot of scientists and engineers. In circles I used to run in, it was commonly accepted that if you had a looser ethics code in things like genetic research, AI development, and IT China was the place to go. You'd be paid really well by Western standards and living in a generally cheaper place.

[Novus America]

The skilled intellectuals usually go back only because they have no choice. We do no give many students green cards. Which is stupid. We should keep the best ones.

Pretty high is not necessarily as high. And regardless of why they want to come here, they still want to come here. True it is not just wages driving it.

Which is fine. The rich investors visa has a massive backlog of Chinese applicants. So true it is not just wages that make us more competitive.

And certainly Russia is ripe for picking given its atrocious wages for skilled aerospace engineers.

It depends on how respected you are in the field but people in my family have gotten job offers from China that pay better than what they have here.

Some jobs might, but also they usually pay foreigners much better than locals.

But sure wages alone are not the only thing causing the emigration.

[Napkizemlja]

Millions primarily from places that are not Russia.

Russia has a fairly small population, especially compared to India and the PRC.

But
https://news.gallup.com/poll/248249/rec ... ussia.aspx

Twenty percent of Russians want out, and the US is the second most popular place they want to go.

And how many of those are part of Russia's military R&D elite?

[Napkizemlja]

It depends on how respected you are in the field but people in my family have gotten job offers from China that pay better than what they have here.

Some jobs might, but also they usually pay foreigners much better than locals.

But sure wages alone are not the only thing causing the emigration.

Odd that now you drop wages being the driving factor.

[Novus America]

Also, China has attracted a lot of scientists and engineers. In circles I used to run in, it was commonly accepted that if you had a looser ethics code in things like genetic research, AI development, and IT China was the place to go. You'd be paid really well by Western standards and living in a generally cheaper place.

They have not attracted as many as they have lost.

And they pay foreigners better than locals. And some living costs are lower, but not housing.

[Novus America]

Some jobs might, but also they usually pay foreigners much better than locals.

But sure wages alone are not the only thing causing the emigration.

Odd that now you drop wages being the driving factor.

It is a factor, but not the only one sure.
Regardless we are still more competitive in pulling in immigrants.

[Novus America]

Russia has a fairly small population, especially compared to India and the PRC.

But
https://news.gallup.com/poll/248249/rec ... ussia.aspx

Twenty percent of Russians want out, and the US is the second most popular place they want to go.

And how many of those are part of Russia's military R&D elite?

It does not say, but their wages for aerospace engineers are horrible and a lot of those wanting to leave are highly educated.

And we do not necessarily need the most elite, just those with usable knowledge and skills.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Severe crackdowns on a substance does not magically make it go away.

Nobody seriously thinks that it does, it's meant to make it harder for it to get on the street and more costly for the criminals who sell it. Crackdowns also don't really make OCG's more powerful, its the lack of enforcement that does that. There is a reason the Mafia hasn't recaptured its hold on society that it once held and that's because the Feds finally decided to seriously tackle organized crime in the 70's and 80's.

That ain't a difficult thing to understand, as we tried it before with alcohol.

Prohibition wasn't even enforced consistently or intensely, that's what allowed a lot of criminal organizations to operate relatively easily. Consistent and intense crackdowns on criminal organizations actually do quite a bit to control them to more acceptable levels.

The problem with the "Prohibitions on x aren't ineffective inherently, they're only ineffective because they're not rigorously enforced. If we rigorously enforced it, it would be effective," argument is that, often rigorously enforcing it creates its own set of ethical issues which I think would outweigh the benefits of creating an effective deterrent.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Nobody seriously thinks that it does, it's meant to make it harder for it to get on the street and more costly for the criminals who sell it. Crackdowns also don't really make OCG's more powerful, its the lack of enforcement that does that. There is a reason the Mafia hasn't recaptured its hold on society that it once held and that's because the Feds finally decided to seriously tackle organized crime in the 70's and 80's. Prohibition wasn't even enforced consistently or intensely, that's what allowed a lot of criminal organizations to operate relatively easily. Consistent and intense crackdowns on criminal organizations actually do quite a bit to control them to more acceptable levels.

The problem with the "Prohibitions on x aren't ineffective inherently, they're only ineffective because they're not rigorously enforced. If we rigorously enforced it, it would be effective," argument is that, often rigorously enforcing it creates its own set of ethical issues which I think would outweigh the benefits of creating an effective deterrent.

sounds like its time to prohibit your ethics :^)

[Napkizemlja]

Nobody seriously thinks that it does, it's meant to make it harder for it to get on the street and more costly for the criminals who sell it. Crackdowns also don't really make OCG's more powerful, its the lack of enforcement that does that. There is a reason the Mafia hasn't recaptured its hold on society that it once held and that's because the Feds finally decided to seriously tackle organized crime in the 70's and 80's. Prohibition wasn't even enforced consistently or intensely, that's what allowed a lot of criminal organizations to operate relatively easily. Consistent and intense crackdowns on criminal organizations actually do quite a bit to control them to more acceptable levels.

The problem with the "Prohibitions on x aren't ineffective inherently, they're only ineffective because they're not rigorously enforced. If we rigorously enforced it, it would be effective," argument is that, often rigorously enforcing it creates its own set of ethical issues which I think would outweigh the benefits of creating an effective deterrent.

Perhaps your ethics, not necessarily mine.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The problem with the "Prohibitions on x aren't ineffective inherently, they're only ineffective because they're not rigorously enforced. If we rigorously enforced it, it would be effective," argument is that, often rigorously enforcing it creates its own set of ethical issues which I think would outweigh the benefits of creating an effective deterrent.

sounds like its time to prohibit your ethics :^)

My ethics say you can't prohibit my ethics tho.

[Nea Byzantia]

They already do it, it changes nothing. Where we can beat them is wages.
Given they chance their defense workers would gladly come here, and tell us everything we need to know.

We have the advantage in terms of higher wages. We should use it.

If that were true then their defense workers would already be sending messages to American embassies and consulates en mass already if they were so giddy to move to America. China is an even worse country to try it over, considering that it's very unlikely that the US will be able to get family members over in time and the Chinese have used threats against family to coerce overseas Chinese residents to do their bidding.

Besides, there's also the possibility that some of these skilled labourers are actually patriotic...Sorry, America, its not always just as simple as buying somebody. Some people don't have a price.

[Ghost in the Shell]

Wat.

Severe crackdowns on a substance does not magically make it go away. That ain't a difficult thing to understand, as we tried it before with alcohol.

Actually, Prohibition was a success

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Severe crackdowns on a substance does not magically make it go away. That ain't a difficult thing to understand, as we tried it before with alcohol.

Actually, Prohibition was a success

If prohibition was a success, then that makes it even worse.

[Antityranicals]

Severe crackdowns on a substance does not magically make it go away. That ain't a difficult thing to understand, as we tried it before with alcohol.

Actually, Prohibition was a success

Why'd they repeal it, then? I don't like the idea of alcohol, and personally won't drink the stuff, but what gives the government the right to ban it?

[Antityranicals]

sounds like its time to prohibit your ethics :^)

My ethics say you can't prohibit my ethics tho.

There are no "my ethics" and "your ethics", only "ethics", and saying otherwise is dangerous and debasing. What if "my ethics" are that I should be allowed to murder people without punishment? Should I be allowed to do this so that you respect "my ethics"? No, because "my ethics" would be wrong! There is one set of objective ethics, and it is our duty to find out what those are, but not to simply make up our own.