Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVII: The Snark Enlightenment

[Fahran]

MIxed religious faith nations are untenable in the long run.

Perhaps, but the most likely outcome of such a state is the gradual assimilation of the religious minority. My people are likely to disappear little by little in the next few centuries, our light flickering out like a candle left on a gusty windowsill. It's much easier to be an unobservant Christian who celebrates Easter and Christmas as hallmark holidays and who goes to church every once in a blue moon than to remain steadfastly Jewish when you lack the depth of feeling and faith that sustained your ancestors. And the mixed state can last for centuries depending on the context.

[Salus Maior]

Not really that surprising. We were probably the largest non-Christian group in the United States until quite recently. That said, I think I've made my views on religion in the United States clear in the past.

Also, how'd your date with my sister of the faith go? Have we napped you yet?

MIxed religious faith nations are untenable in the long run.

Tbh, mixed faith cultures are somewhat inevitable. And historically pretty ubiquitous in advanced societies.

[Fahran]

MIxed religious faith nations are untenable in the long run.

Tbh, mixed faith cultures are somewhat inevitable. And historically pretty ubiquitous in advanced societies.

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Show me an example in the world that this worked.

It worked in the United States, off and on, until the 1960's. I still maintain that we need another Great Awakening.

You'll probably get one.

[North German Realm]

Tbh, mixed faith cultures are somewhat inevitable. And historically pretty ubiquitous in advanced societies.

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

[Luminesa]

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

Aaaaaand then the French Revolution happened! Which set an anti-religious precedent in France from which France has never quite recovered.

[Hanafuridake]

Edit: In fact, Jews were mostly responsible for removing religion from schools and state affairs. Most of the court cases were driven by Jewish families.

Hmmm......

Calm down Pepe.

[Hakons]

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

The 20th century probably had the most religious persecution

[United Muscovite Nations]

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

The French Revolution was pretty oppressive towards religion and some secular governments (such as France and sometimes Turkey) don't allow private religious expression.

[Fahran]

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

Some pretty bad religious persecution occurred after the Enlightenment as states became more centralized and powerful, but, as a general rule, the Enlightenment eventually led to greater rights for Jews. And, by eventually, I mean well after World War II in many places.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

The French Revolution was pretty oppressive towards religion and some secular governments (such as France and sometimes Turkey) don't allow private religious expression.

Turkey flipped and it is heading towards theocracy. Secularists are no longer in power there.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The French Revolution was pretty oppressive towards religion and some secular governments (such as France and sometimes Turkey) don't allow private religious expression.

Turkey flipped and it is heading towards theocracy. Secularists are no longer in power there.

There are still laws against religious expression though.

[Hanafuridake]

Tbh, mixed faith cultures are somewhat inevitable. And historically pretty ubiquitous in advanced societies.

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

To be fair, if your government derives its right from a transcendent order, denying that order would be tantamount to disloyalty.

[North German Realm]

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

The French Revolution was pretty oppressive towards religion and some secular governments (such as France and sometimes Turkey) don't allow private religious expression.

The only difference in the persecution during the revolution and pretty much the persecution at any point before it was that it was extended to the Catholics too though. With the exception of the Soviets -and their satellites- and to an extent Ataturk's Turkey, what religious persecution has been even remotely as terrible as what Europe in general went through throughout the reformation?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Turkey flipped and it is heading towards theocracy. Secularists are no longer in power there.

There are still laws against religious expression though.

They'll probably be replaced with laws persecuting the secularists soon enough.

[Fahran]

The French Revolution was pretty oppressive towards religion and some secular governments (such as France and sometimes Turkey) don't allow private religious expression.

The only difference in the persecution during the revolution and pretty much the persecution at any point before it was that it was extended to the Catholics too though. With the exception of the Soviets -and their satellites- and to an extent Ataturk's Turkey, what religious persecution has been even remotely as terrible as what Europe in general went through throughout the reformation?

Calles was pretty terrible to be honest. The Cristeros did absolutely nothing wrong.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The French Revolution was pretty oppressive towards religion and some secular governments (such as France and sometimes Turkey) don't allow private religious expression.

The only difference in the persecution during the revolution and pretty much the persecution at any point before it was that it was extended to the Catholics too though. With the exception of the Soviets -and their satellites- and to an extent Ataturk's Turkey, what religious persecution has been even remotely as terrible as what Europe in general went through throughout the reformation?

The French Revolution was quite a bit more harsh than what most people had to endure. There was religious persecution before the enlightenment on a large scale obviously, but secularism just solves that by declaring that religion can't influence anything, and that's going too far because sometimes religious reasoning is important to ideology and notions of rights.

[Joohan]

Essentially. The difference is that, prior to the Enlightenment, genuine tolerance was rare and often fleeting and state religion was ubiquitous.

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

No, it's been pretty consistent throughout history. After the French Revolution, secular and atheists states had become the largest religious persecutors.

[United Muscovite Nations]

There are still laws against religious expression though.

They'll probably be replaced with laws persecuting the secularists soon enough.

The courts won't even let the ban on hijab be lifted even though almost everyone wants it lifted.

[Fahran]

Didn't most of the religious persecution, et al, happen specifically before the events in the 18th century that we call The Enlightenment though?

No, it's been pretty consistent throughout history. After the French Revolution, secular and atheists states had become the largest religious persecutors.

Debatable. Muslim states have gotten pretty oppressive of late between the mass expulsion of Jews and setting Christian churches on fire. Usually, the government doesn't support these activities, as they didn't in Nigeria, Egypt, or Pakistan, but you can find a few religious authorities or politicians who are sympathetic to zealots.

[Totally Not OEP]

We should evacuate the remaining Christian populations from the Middle East, then let the Muslims and Jews have at it.

[Joohan]

No, it's been pretty consistent throughout history. After the French Revolution, secular and atheists states had become the largest religious persecutors.

Debatable. Muslim states have gotten pretty oppressive of late between the mass expulsion of Jews and setting Christian churches on fire. Usually, the government doesn't support these activities, as they didn't in Nigeria, Egypt, or Pakistan, but you can find a few religious authorities or politicians who are sympathetic to zealots.

True, but still, I would say that, at least in the 20th century, it was secular and atheist states that were the worst offenders.

[United Muscovite Nations]

We should evacuate the remaining Christian populations from the Middle East, then let the Muslims and Jews have at it.

Most of the Christians want to stay. In Palestine at least, the Christians align pretty closely with the Muslims in terms of public opinion.

[Fahran]

We should evacuate the remaining Christian populations from the Middle East, then let the Muslims and Jews have at it.

We've evacuated a decent number of Assyrians. Alternative: make Lebanon an Arab Christian state again. :^)

[Fahran]

We should evacuate the remaining Christian populations from the Middle East, then let the Muslims and Jews have at it.

Most of the Christians want to stay. In Palestine at least, the Christians align pretty closely with the Muslims in terms of public opinion.

That'll likely hold true as long as the Palestinians are more nationalist than Islamist.