"Und Doch" Trend

[Scomagia]

The fact that everyone who uses it is sympathetic to the fascists, see the nazis as preferable to the communists, literally inhabit the right wing discussion thread, support nationalism, and so forth.

So, anyone who:

1) Points to an extremist and violent ideology that they hate more than Nazism (whilst still hating Nazism) or
2) Is right-wing or
3) Is a nationalist

Is now a Nazi. Got it. The outer circles of the word 'Nazi' just keep expanding every day, it seems.

Pretty soon market socialists will be called reactionaries and Nazis.

[Bear Stearns]

How on Earth am I fearmongering about the Left? Nothing I have said in this thread is untrue. I'm criticising the Left but that's not the same as baseless and untrue stoking of fear

You're not exactly fearmongering so much as using hyperbole, I suppose. The fearmongering has mainly been the work of Bear Stearns.

And how is that?

[Jebslund]

"Und Dude" is far superior to "Und Dog" imo

How about "HUND DOCH" ?

Wouldn't that just be a DOCHSHUND?

[The Alma Mater]

Which is a shame. The word has an objective meaning but at this point it just refers to anyone to the right of ANTIFA, basically.

Daily reminder that the left viewing anyone normal as a Nazi has been happening since at least 2003.

"Normal" being relative. The USA has rightshifted so much that most polticians are indeed to the right of Hitler.
Not that that means they want to gas Jews.

On the upside, that means that Americans can claim nazis are leftwing, and make all kinds of socialism vs national socialism comments without being utterly wrong

[Scomagia]

I still believe "Und Dude" is a strong contender

Yeah, but mine also plays on the skull, which can't be said for that.

Mine is a stealth pun. So, yeah. I win.

[Purgatio]

Again, where's the evidence for this

I mean literally a cursory look into them says they killed several Baltic nationalists before said nationalists turned and attacked the Friekorps
Again this took me like, literally one google search

On the basis of those Baltic nationalists' race?

[Internationalist Bastard]

I mean literally a cursory look into them says they killed several Baltic nationalists before said nationalists turned and attacked the Friekorps
Again this took me like, literally one google search

On the basis of those Baltic nationalists' race?

I mean they were anti communist forces so they sure as fuck weren’t doing it for that

[Scomagia]

https://bsos.umd.edu/featured-content/proportion-terrorist-attacks
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3a4813174afd
https://www.splcenter.org/20180723/terror-right
https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states

You do get that you can be afraid of Cause of Death A even though there is a bigger Cause of Death B out there, right?

Like, I'm scared of getting cancer even though more people die of heart disease, because I can be scared of both. You get that, right?

Nonsense. Clearly you're either with the Nazis or the Commies. No middle ground or nuance allowed!

[Scomagia]

https://bsos.umd.edu/featured-content/proportion-terrorist-attacks
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3a4813174afd
https://www.splcenter.org/20180723/terror-right
https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states

The ADL is just a little bit biased, though...

Didn't they get sued for defamation? Or was that the SPLC?

[Tombradyonia]

They have a skull on their flag. Are they the baddies?

[Purgatio]

On the basis of those Baltic nationalists' race?

I mean they were anti communist forces so they sure as fuck weren’t doing it for that

Or maybe those nationalists were killed for opposing the pro-German Niedra puppet government installed by the Freikorps in Riga rather than because they were ethnic Baltic (is that even a race? I don't know)

[Purgatio]

The ADL is just a little bit biased, though...

Didn't they get sued for defamation? Or was that the SPLC?

That's the SPLC, Maajid Nawaz

[The New California Republic]

They have a skull on their flag. Are they the baddies?

Sure why not.

[Purgatio]

You do get that you can be afraid of Cause of Death A even though there is a bigger Cause of Death B out there, right?

Like, I'm scared of getting cancer even though more people die of heart disease, because I can be scared of both. You get that, right?

Nonsense. Clearly you're either with the Nazis or the Commies. No middle ground or nuance allowed!

Haha absolutely true, the Left's logic is that if I hate Communism, then I must be a Nazi

[Arcturus Novus]

Alright, so:
-y'all are right that fascism is usually a reactionary force in the rise of socialism and communism. however, that doesn't mean it's the communists' fault that people are tempted to join ranks with fascists, it's literally the fascists' fault for being so afraid of the "scary lefties" that they decide to pursue an ideology which is historically and demonstrably fucked.
-i'm not going to try to defend the various crimes of the USSR, PRC, DPRK, etc., but mostly because i think any system where power is entirely centralized is a bad one.
-the freikorps weren't nazis, but it's a historically documented fact that right-wing paramilitaries in Germany helped lead to the demise of the KPD and the rise of the NSDAP.
-you can say "it's not a nazi/ss symbol" all you want but you can't get all uppity when people think it looks like a totenkopf. like, c'mon now. it's pretty fucking similar.
-farn's flag is clearly a mockery, she's not fash by any means. nor are pretty much any of the mods, to my knowledge.
-no one is really calling "good honest normal people" literal nazis. stop exaggerating and bad-faith arguing.

1) The Freikorps hated the Communists. The Communists were the Nazis' main enemy. Hence, by fighting the Communists, the Freikorps might have inadvertently aided the rise of Nazism. None of this means the Freikorps were Nazis, it just means the Freikorps hated Communism, as do most people today.

Inadvertently? Do you know how many high-ranking Nazis were former Freikorps troops? Or how the Sudeten Freikorps were literally formed to integrate German Czechs into the Reich? Their violent breed of anticommunism and German nationalism literally paved the way for Nazis to take over, and then went on to provide the party with experienced leadership.

2) No one is calling good honest normal people Nazis? What about ANTIFA and how they justify violence against 'fascists' on the basis that it is supposedly a violent ideology and go around attacking a journalist like Andy Ngo https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/454712-conservative-journalist-andy-ngo-says-antifa-attack-resulted-in-brain-injury or Marine reservists https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2019/01/30/third-man-charged-in-alleged-antifa-assault-of-two-marine-reservists-in-philadelphia/ or two random men walking by their rally in Oregon https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/1/two-more-oregon-men-left-bloody-antifa-attack-port/

Andy Ngo isn't even a journalist, he's just some tool who goes to rallies with the hopes of something controversial happening so he can post on Breitbart or whatever about "the ebul lefties". As for the reservists, the only sources I can find linking the attackers to Antifa groups are FOX, the Marine Corps Times, and the Daily Caller - not exactly the most objective news sites. And your third link - that guy pictured with a bloody head? Here's him at the same rally armed with a baton. He's a Three Percenter who went there with the intent of fighting. And the other guy was Adam Kelly, who works with the Proud Boys. Neither of those groups are as harmless as you'd like them to be.
Also, note how none of these people are dead. For some scary international cabal of left-wing terrorists, Antifa sure has a pathetic body count.

Clearly this isn't 'bad faith arguing'. There are people out there who do deem good honest normal people to be Nazis and fascists.

This is literal bad faith arguing, threepers and Proud Boys alike are literally laying the groundwork for a push toward the far right.

[Internationalist Bastard]

I mean they were anti communist forces so they sure as fuck weren’t doing it for that

Or maybe those nationalists were killed for opposing the pro-German Niedra puppet government installed by the Freikorps in Riga rather than because they were ethnic Baltic (is that even a race? I don't know)

Killing off a group of people to ensure your ethnicities dominance is genocide even if you don’t say it’s for that purpose

[Scomagia]

Didn't they get sued for defamation? Or was that the SPLC?

That's the SPLC, Maajid Nawaz

Ah. I always forget. ADL is still pretty reliable, I think, unlike SPLC.

[Cekoviu]

https://bsos.umd.edu/featured-content/proportion-terrorist-attacks
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.3a4813174afd
https://www.splcenter.org/20180723/terror-right
https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states

The ADL is just a little bit biased, though...

Um, against Nazis, yes.

[Cekoviu]

You're not exactly fearmongering so much as using hyperbole, I suppose. The fearmongering has mainly been the work of Bear Stearns.

And how is that?

Freaking out about left-wing violence, stoking fear and anger among right-wingers by using examples from more than 15 years ago...

[Nouveau Quebecois]

Or maybe those nationalists were killed for opposing the pro-German Niedra puppet government installed by the Freikorps in Riga rather than because they were ethnic Baltic (is that even a race? I don't know)

Killing off a group of people to ensure your ethnicities dominance is genocide even if you don’t say it’s for that purpose

Sounds like the Soviet Union. Those darn Nazbols back at it again.

[Scomagia]

1) The Freikorps hated the Communists. The Communists were the Nazis' main enemy. Hence, by fighting the Communists, the Freikorps might have inadvertently aided the rise of Nazism. None of this means the Freikorps were Nazis, it just means the Freikorps hated Communism, as do most people today.

Inadvertently? Do you know how many high-ranking Nazis were former Freikorps troops? Or how the Sudeten Freikorps were literally formed to integrate German Czechs into the Reich? Their violent breed of anticommunism and German nationalism literally paved the way for Nazis to take over, and then went on to provide the party with experienced leadership.

2) No one is calling good honest normal people Nazis? What about ANTIFA and how they justify violence against 'fascists' on the basis that it is supposedly a violent ideology and go around attacking a journalist like Andy Ngo https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/454712-conservative-journalist-andy-ngo-says-antifa-attack-resulted-in-brain-injury or Marine reservists https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2019/01/30/third-man-charged-in-alleged-antifa-assault-of-two-marine-reservists-in-philadelphia/ or two random men walking by their rally in Oregon https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/1/two-more-oregon-men-left-bloody-antifa-attack-port/

Andy Ngo isn't even a journalist, he's just some tool who goes to rallies with the hopes of something controversial happening so he can post on Breitbart or whatever about "the ebul lefties". As for the reservists, the only sources I can find linking the attackers to Antifa groups are FOX, the Marine Corps Times, and the Daily Caller - not exactly the most objective news sites. And your third link - that guy pictured with a bloody head? Here's him at the same rally armed with a baton. He's a Three Percenter who went there with the intent of fighting. And the other guy was Adam Kelly, who works with the Proud Boys. Neither of those groups are as harmless as you'd like them to be.
Also, note how none of these people are dead. For some scary international cabal of left-wing terrorists, Antifa sure has a pathetic body count.

Clearly this isn't 'bad faith arguing'. There are people out there who do deem good honest normal people to be Nazis and fascists.

This is literal bad faith arguing, threepers and Proud Boys alike are literally laying the groundwork for a push toward the far right.

Is your argument really that Antifa isn't bad because they haven't murdered anybody yet? I guess the Weather Underground weren't terrorists either, right? I mean sure they blew up buildings but nobody died. And Ted Kaczynski only became a terrorist after his bombs actually killed people instead of just maiming them, right?

[Arcturus Novus]

Nonsense. Clearly you're either with the Nazis or the Commies. No middle ground or nuance allowed!

Haha absolutely true, the Left's logic is that if I hate Communism, then I must be a Nazi

Are you capable of making an argument that isn't a straw man, or are we going to continuously pretend that the left is a monolith that has One Position and One Position Only, and that anyone who disagrees with that One Position is a literal actual Nazi?

[Scomagia]

The ADL is just a little bit biased, though...

Um, against Nazis, yes.

They can be a little quick to label but, on the whole, they are pretty trustworthy.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Killing off a group of people to ensure your ethnicities dominance is genocide even if you don’t say it’s for that purpose

Sounds like the Soviet Union. Those darn Nazbols back at it again.

No ideology owns a monopoly on genocide

[Purgatio]

1) The Freikorps hated the Communists. The Communists were the Nazis' main enemy. Hence, by fighting the Communists, the Freikorps might have inadvertently aided the rise of Nazism. None of this means the Freikorps were Nazis, it just means the Freikorps hated Communism, as do most people today.

Inadvertently? Do you know how many high-ranking Nazis were former Freikorps troops? Or how the Sudeten Freikorps were literally formed to integrate German Czechs into the Reich? Their violent breed of anticommunism and German nationalism literally paved the way for Nazis to take over, and then went on to provide the party with experienced leadership.

2) No one is calling good honest normal people Nazis? What about ANTIFA and how they justify violence against 'fascists' on the basis that it is supposedly a violent ideology and go around attacking a journalist like Andy Ngo https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/454712-conservative-journalist-andy-ngo-says-antifa-attack-resulted-in-brain-injury or Marine reservists https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2019/01/30/third-man-charged-in-alleged-antifa-assault-of-two-marine-reservists-in-philadelphia/ or two random men walking by their rally in Oregon https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jul/1/two-more-oregon-men-left-bloody-antifa-attack-port/

Andy Ngo isn't even a journalist, he's just some tool who goes to rallies with the hopes of something controversial happening so he can post on Breitbart or whatever about "the ebul lefties". As for the reservists, the only sources I can find linking the attackers to Antifa groups are FOX, the Marine Corps Times, and the Daily Caller - not exactly the most objective news sites. And your third link - that guy pictured with a bloody head? Here's him at the same rally armed with a baton. He's a Three Percenter who went there with the intent of fighting. And the other guy was Adam Kelly, who works with the Proud Boys. Neither of those groups are as harmless as you'd like them to be.
Also, note how none of these people are dead. For some scary international cabal of left-wing terrorists, Antifa sure has a pathetic body count.

Clearly this isn't 'bad faith arguing'. There are people out there who do deem good honest normal people to be Nazis and fascists.

This is literal bad faith arguing, threepers and Proud Boys alike are literally laying the groundwork for a push toward the far right.

Just because some Freikorps members like Fridolin von Spaun liked the Nazis doesn't make the entire organisation Nazi. Both organisations hated Communism and supported violence against them, it makes sense that some Freikorps members would like the Nazis for those reasons but it doesn't mean the entirety of the Freikorps is pro-Nazi.

Also, I genuinely don't understand the logic of arguing that Andy Ngo hating leftists means he's a Nazi or fascist who deserved violence and to be placed in a hospital. Honestly that kind of logic is unspeakable. Same with arguing that just because two people are in the Proud Boys they deserve to be beaten and attacked withour provocation (because the article I linked made it clear ANTIFA started the violence, not the two Oregon men)

Also, is Business Insider a biased new source to you? https://www.businessinsider.com/marines-reportedly-assaulted-called-nazis-by-antifa-affiliated-mob-2018-12?IR=T

Oh, and let's not mention that ANTIFA has attaked an ICE detention facility, and threw Molotov cocktails in Berkeley, and attacked police officers during a protest in DC etc etc etc