A Whitish Guy's Take On White Privlidge

[West Sylvania]

White privilege is real, but it doesn't mean being white means you're automatically better off than non-whites.

I think the problem with trying to discuss this issue is that hardliners on both sides have obfuscated any nuance the topic should have behind empty slogans and yelling louder than everyone else in the room.

It's absolutely true that being white grants you a free pass from a lot of the institutionalized racism people face day-to-day from various official institutions. It's hardly a difficult trend to notice.

It's also absolutely true that there are many, many white Americans who are struggling just as much as anyone to stay afloat out there. To tell them they are outright "privileged" dismisses their struggle and diminishes their empowerment (e.g. they have no right to ask for more).

Until we can have a real, nuanced discussion about this on a national level it will continue to be a moot conversation in terms of moving our society forward.

[Farnhamia]

Thankfully most of it is in the past now, but there are still issues that persist, and I’m thankful I didn’t have to go through all the crap my family went through

Mettaton, as glamorous as he is, he can be a idiotic asshole sometimes. Robots cannot be trans.

*** Warned for flaming. ***

[Risastorstein]

One thing I particularly dislike regarding this concept is the word "privilege" as if it was undeserved. "Advantages" is more neutral and get the point across. The main focus should be on disadvantages rather than alienating a large portion of society that didn't ask for nor did create this system.
Another issue is its use in order to silence people according to their White identity. It also contributes to these victimhood Olympics where appearances and superficial characteristics such as gender and race play a more important role than socio-economic status.
Moreover, it's often imported in other countries than the US without any perspective about its strong Americentrism. Not all nations have the same discriminations and not all countries base them around race.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Piffle and nonsense.

It took me a couple of minutes to find that stuff. And this. And this. And this.

I get it. It's no fun admitting privilege. But you can't use "Well, we have sectarianism, so I'm not privileged" as a shield any more than I can say, "Well, I'm gay, so I don't have white privilege." Even if I move to NI, where things are clearly worse than they are here in London! You wouldn't have been stopped on that ferry. Nor would I. That's privilege. It doesn't matter that a Protestant might beat you up elsewhere, or hurl homophobic abuse at me.

So no, I don't believe you, any more than you should believe my white arse if I tell you being white isn't an advantage in London. "My experience" isn't all that useful for judging the suffering of communities of which I am not a part.

Note, because I don't think you've really understood me, that I'm not actually saying you have it easier than PoC who are outside the sectarian divide. I freely admit that I don't know enough to comment either way on that. But what I am saying, and this shouldn't be controversial at all, is that there are disadvantages faced by people of colour that are not faced by white people, even Catholics (consider visibility, for instance). Or to put it another way, if you were to have a kid with a woman of colour, that kid would have it worse than you (assuming they can't pass as white).

I dont give a fuck if you believe me or not, none of those links disprove anything i just said, my community is still dealing with shit here on a daily fucking basis, such as being burnt out of their fucking homes, having paramilitary flags erected on lamp posts to intimidate you to leave, actually being forced out of your fucking homes, being beaten within an inch of your fucking life for being irish, children being fucking attacked, dealing with the twelfth every year which is a massive sectarian involving burning irish flags, irish posters, placards saying kill all taigs and burning effigies of irish politicians, as well as marching past peoples homes playing sectarian fucking music intended to intimidate locals. Schools in northern ireland can freely discriminate against teaching candidates because of their religion as well by the way, actively denying people the chance to work because they are of the wrong religion. There are fucking walls up between communities in my home, WALLS. With fucking fencing and heavy metal gates. There are actually calls for a specialist department to tackle sectarianism in my home its getting that bad

its more than "some protestant beating you up somewhere" and that still fucking matters by the way. It fucking matters that a large portion of the Unionist community see my community as nothing more than scum because of our heritage and identity, and do their damnest to treat us like crap because they have to deal with us as equals after 70 years of entrenched bigotry and state level discrimination. This persists to this fucking day, so it does matter that some protestant will beat up a catholic, because its only a small aspect of the hatred that still persists in my home against me and my family.

Black lawyer denied a job because of his race? Irish catholics burnt out of their homes and catholic teachers denied jobs because they are irish and catholic.
Asian couple treated with racism by a car dealer? Irish catholics have to stand whilst a sectarian song about a famine that killed over a million people is played in front of them by a band that purposefully stopped out of a catholic church to intimidate people.
Polish man gets his window put in? Irishman gets his window put in.

Sectarianism matters just as much as Racism. My community does not have privilege, maybe consider that i know more about this than you do *cough cough*, i dont give a fuck if you dont believe me or not, im done with this shit. The equality in my home is not privilege, its equality we fought long and hard to get, and some people still want to tear it from us.

Well, you're not making an effort to understand what I mean by privilege, even though I explained it quite clearly. If you're just going to replace "reading my posts" with "flinging expletives at me" then there's no point having this conversation, is there?

Edit: oh, hey, flinging expletives at me and telling me to shut up was what you did when I complained of misogyny in the SW fandom. And then on another occasion you told me I was imagining things. Seems like you just don't want me to talk about anything that makes you feel uncomfortable.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I dont give a fuck if you believe me or not, none of those links disprove anything i just said, my community is still dealing with shit here on a daily fucking basis, such as being burnt out of their fucking homes, having paramilitary flags erected on lamp posts to intimidate you to leave, actually being forced out of your fucking homes, being beaten within an inch of your fucking life for being irish, children being fucking attacked, dealing with the twelfth every year which is a massive sectarian involving burning irish flags, irish posters, placards saying kill all taigs and burning effigies of irish politicians, as well as marching past peoples homes playing sectarian fucking music intended to intimidate locals. Schools in northern ireland can freely discriminate against teaching candidates because of their religion as well by the way, actively denying people the chance to work because they are of the wrong religion. There are fucking walls up between communities in my home, WALLS. With fucking fencing and heavy metal gates. There are actually calls for a specialist department to tackle sectarianism in my home its getting that bad

its more than "some protestant beating you up somewhere" and that still fucking matters by the way. It fucking matters that a large portion of the Unionist community see my community as nothing more than scum because of our heritage and identity, and do their damnest to treat us like crap because they have to deal with us as equals after 70 years of entrenched bigotry and state level discrimination. This persists to this fucking day, so it does matter that some protestant will beat up a catholic, because its only a small aspect of the hatred that still persists in my home against me and my family.

Black lawyer denied a job because of his race? Irish catholics burnt out of their homes and catholic teachers denied jobs because they are irish and catholic.
Asian couple treated with racism by a car dealer? Irish catholics have to stand whilst a sectarian song about a famine that killed over a million people is played in front of them by a band that purposefully stopped out of a catholic church to intimidate people.
Polish man gets his window put in? Irishman gets his window put in.

Sectarianism matters just as much as Racism. My community does not have privilege, maybe consider that i know more about this than you do *cough cough*, i dont give a fuck if you dont believe me or not, im done with this shit. The equality in my home is not privilege, its equality we fought long and hard to get, and some people still want to tear it from us.

Well, you're not making an effort to understand what I mean by privilege, even though I explained it quite clearly. If you're just going to replace "reading my posts" with "flinging expletives at me" then there's no point having this conversation, is there?

Edit: oh, hey, flinging expletives at me and telling me to shut up was what you did when I complained of misogyny in the SW fandom. And then on another occasion you told me I was imagining things. Seems like you just don't want me to talk about anything that makes you feel uncomfortable.

You are the one who rage quit the thread over people disagreeing with you then proceeded to smear everyone as sexists who want women to shut up and who would get outraged over fascist being made fun over but hey whatever plat

Oh and another thing, I didn’t tell you to shut up over misogyny I told you to drop your attitude and to stop smearing people as things they are not because they don’t march lock and step with you, that’s what I said but you do you

Maybe you will come back in another few months to call us all sexists again

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Well, you're not making an effort to understand what I mean by privilege, even though I explained it quite clearly. If you're just going to replace "reading my posts" with "flinging expletives at me" then there's no point having this conversation, is there?

Edit: oh, hey, flinging expletives at me and telling me to shut up was what you did when I complained of misogyny in the SW fandom. And then on another occasion you told me I was imagining things. Seems like you just don't want me to talk about anything that makes you feel uncomfortable.

You are the one who rage quit the thread over people disagreeing with you then proceeded to smear everyone as sexists who want women to shut up and who would get outraged over fascist being made fun over but hey whatever plat

Oh and another thing, I didn’t tell you to shut up over misogyny I told you to drop your attitude and to stop smearing people as things they are not because they don’t march lock and step with you, that’s what I said but you do you

Maybe you will come back in another few months to call us all sexists again

Calm down.

[Kowani]

You are the one who rage quit the thread over people disagreeing with you then proceeded to smear everyone as sexists who want women to shut up and who would get outraged over fascist being made fun over but hey whatever plat

Oh and another thing, I didn’t tell you to shut up over misogyny I told you to drop your attitude and to stop smearing people as things they are not because they don’t march lock and step with you, that’s what I said but you do you

Maybe you will come back in another few months to call us all sexists again

Calm down.

Yes. That’s going to work.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

Calm down.

Yes. That’s going to work.

No, you're right, that was unfair of me. It's clear this conversation is going nowhere, so I'm going to step back.

[Kowani]

Yes. That’s going to work.

No, you're right, that was unfair of me. It's clear this conversation is going nowhere, so I'm going to step back.

That’s…actually pretty fair.

[Estanglia]

From what I’ve seen, privilege typically translates to “you being treated with the bare minimum decency”.

I should not have to explain why calling that privilege has bad implications.

I keep seeing white privilege as an evil thing that must be abolished, and it's always confused me a bit.

If your goal is to remove privilege by lowering white people to the same level of nonwhites, it makes sense.

If your goal is to remove privilege by raising nonwhite people to the same level of whites, it doesn't.
Not only are you treating the status of whites as evil and yet ideal (which makes no sense), but by talking about how whites are privileged, you'll alienate disadvantaged whites who you are calling more privileged than others who have it better than them.
Focusing on the disadvantages faced by nonwhites seems like a better idea, because you won't alienate whites who would ordinarily agree with you but who wouldn't support you because of the privilege angle, and people who don't see white privilege as a) something that needs to be tackled or b) something that exists.

[Uiiop]

From what I’ve seen, privilege typically translates to “you being treated with the bare minimum decency”.

I should not have to explain why calling that privilege has bad implications.

I keep seeing white privilege as an evil thing that must be abolished, and it's always confused me a bit.

If your goal is to remove privilege by lowering white people to the same level of nonwhites, it makes sense.

If your goal is to remove privilege by raising nonwhite people to the same level of whites, it doesn't.
Not only are you treating the status of whites as evil and yet ideal (which makes no sense), but by talking about how whites are privileged, you'll alienate disadvantaged whites who you are calling more privileged than others who have it better than them.
Focusing on the disadvantages faced by nonwhites seems like a better idea, because you won't alienate whites who would ordinarily agree with you but who wouldn't support you because of the privilege angle, and people who don't see white privilege as a) something that needs to be tackled or b) something that exists.

People only call it privilege to describe what society already does not what they ideally like it to be.

It's pretty easy to see that as soon you as read the context.

[Estanglia]

I keep seeing white privilege as an evil thing that must be abolished, and it's always confused me a bit.

If your goal is to remove privilege by lowering white people to the same level of nonwhites, it makes sense.

If your goal is to remove privilege by raising nonwhite people to the same level of whites, it doesn't.
Not only are you treating the status of whites as evil and yet ideal (which makes no sense), but by talking about how whites are privileged, you'll alienate disadvantaged whites who you are calling more privileged than others who have it better than them.
Focusing on the disadvantages faced by nonwhites seems like a better idea, because you won't alienate whites who would ordinarily agree with you but who wouldn't support you because of the privilege angle, and people who don't see white privilege as a) something that needs to be tackled or b) something that exists.

People only call it privilege to describe what society already does not what they ideally like it to be.

It's pretty easy to see that as soon you as read the context.

By

Not only are you treating the status of whites as evil and yet ideal

(which is what I'm assuming you're responding to), I'm referring to cases where white privilege is not just used to describe things, but also used as an argument, for example, using white privilege to argue for reparations or affirmative action.

[New haven america]

Northern Ireland doesnt have white privilege, what we did have was ethnic privilege towards Protestant British people over Catholic Irish people for much of my homes existence, and this applied to basically every aspect of life in Northern Ireland. Catholic Irish were discriminated against in jobs, housing, political representation (suppression of rallies, organised meetings and gerry mandering of electoral boundaries) and rampant discrimination and ill treatment at the hands of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC, our police, now known as the Police Service of Northern Ireland, PSNI).

Thankfully this is gone (for the most part) and i didnt have to grow up through what my family went through, who had to deal with this shit on a daily basis, and some even had to fight to end it. For me and my circumstances of where i have grown up ive had to deal with some people who have bandied around white privilege at me for being white despite the fact they know nothing about my home and what my home was like for my people, so no i dont have white privilege, i have equality that was denied to my family for fucking decades in their own home, an equality that was denied to them because of their race, nationality and also religion.

50 years ago it would have been a nightmare for me to try and get into Uni, or to get a good high paying job, or to even enter into a relationship with someone who was a protestant brit. Fuck i can still get dogs abuse off of people for being irish from people who live in the same place as me and there are some people here in NI chomping at the thought of going back to what it was like.

Can't benefit from your skin colour if you're part of another marginalised demographic.

TIL I don't have white privilege.

Or maybe Huskar's just posting drunk again.

You realize that by arguing this fact you're just proving his point? Irish people are still heavily marginalized within the UK and Ireland itself, which has lead to hundreds of years of discrimination, both civil and external war, and basically genocide (But the UK doesn't like people calling it that).

You arguing that things like that aren't happening is just proving that it still is. You're trying to downplay the issues that are still present and identifiable in a Post-Troubles British Isles, namely by claiming that someone who was born and raised in one of the most terrorist heavy areas in the world is lying about what they and others experience and the problems there are nothing but make believe by those trying t gain any attention they can get.

[New haven america]

Still waiting for my white privilege card, should be here any second now, any second...

[Uiiop]

I keep seeing white privilege as an evil thing that must be abolished, and it's always confused me a bit.

If your goal is to remove privilege by lowering white people to the same level of nonwhites, it makes sense.

If your goal is to remove privilege by raising nonwhite people to the same level of whites, it doesn't.
Not only are you treating the status of whites as evil and yet ideal (which makes no sense), but by talking about how whites are privileged, you'll alienate disadvantaged whites who you are calling more privileged than others who have it better than them.
Focusing on the disadvantages faced by nonwhites seems like a better idea, because you won't alienate whites who would ordinarily agree with you but who wouldn't support you because of the privilege angle, and people who don't see white privilege as a) something that needs to be tackled or b) something that exists.

People only call it privilege to describe what society already does not what they ideally like it to be.

It's pretty easy to see that as soon you as read the context.

One gets the feeling that this whole hand-wringing about word usage seems to come from "Well the people you used this word already seem like authoritarian to me. Maybe my feelings around this word by itself prove another way they're authoritarian." AKA the people who already have reasons to view things in bad faith.
Being very Charitable it seems odd to point this out than there are other things that look bad.

In actuality nitpicking and changing only specific words use regardless of the context of it all like this is shit praxis.
It''s not going to do anything to differentiate you from the "SJWS" to make white people understand nor will it ones who y'all think the label fits to reconsider anything more than saying "Using the 'n word' inherently sounds bad" does or to bring an more extreme example of the issue here: "Stop using the ok sign" .
Engaging with the forces that determine the context is more effective from what i've seen than using or not using certain words. Even if you can't make everyone understand you no matter which way.

[The Huskar Social Union]

The fucking gall of someone who doesn’t live in Northern Ireland, accusing me, someone who has lived their entire life in this place of lying about what it’s like here, especially for my community and dismissing the fucking facts of what has happened here.


Just another day on NSG

[Uiiop]

Can't benefit from your skin colour if you're part of another marginalised demographic.

TIL I don't have white privilege.

Or maybe Huskar's just posting drunk again.

You realize that by arguing this fact you're just proving his point? Irish people are still heavily marginalized within the UK and Ireland itself, which has lead to hundreds of years of discrimination, both civil and external war, and basically genocide (But the UK doesn't like people calling it that).

You arguing that things like that aren't happening is just proving that it still is. You're trying to downplay the issues that are still present and identifiable in a Post-Troubles British Isles, namely by claiming that someone who was born and raised in one of the most terrorist heavy areas in the world is lying about what they and others experience and the problems there are nothing but make believe by those trying t gain any attention they can get.

I have issues with Plat's argumentation but he explicitly says Huskar's being marginalized.
Regradless of whether or not you think it fits in Husker's case: Do you think society bias are multifaceted and fucked enough to make you life like hell then in particular cases treat you better than others?
And do you think personal anecdote is enough to say for certain that these biases leading to prove better treatment don't exist?'
'
The data Plat brought up doesn't show he's privileged to not having a shitty time. But he's privileged from things that would add another load to the bs he's gotten.

[Uiiop]

People only call it privilege to describe what society already does not what they ideally like it to be.

It's pretty easy to see that as soon you as read the context.

By

Not only are you treating the status of whites as evil and yet ideal

(which is what I'm assuming you're responding to), I'm referring to cases where white privilege is not just used to describe things, but also used as an argument, for example, using white privilege to argue for reparations or affirmative action.

I'm not so sure what you mean by use as an argument so if the below doesn't address it then feel free to clarify.
In argumentation it's either to refer to the opponent's privilege becoming an echo chamber from any experience of racial inequality or to insulate the opponent either sub or full consciously wants to keep said inequalities. Depending on how much in good faith the arugment user is being.

The fucking gall of someone who doesn’t live in Northern Ireland, accusing me, someone who has lived their entire life in this place of lying about what it’s like here, especially for my community and dismissing the fucking facts of what has happened here.


Just another day on NSG

"You don't admit you're wrong" While a dumb thing to say isn't the same thing as "You're lying."

[Rojava Free State]

Calm down.

Yes. That’s going to work.

Buddy you've angered an irishman, and even worse you angered him regarding his nationalism and the history of where he grew up. There is no calm down. That isn't a thing. You don't tell someone whose group was and still is targeted by British racists that they have "white privilege" when clearly the main leadership of northern Ireland in 1970 wanted to never share power with Irish Catholics and even today many of them still wish they could ship every last irishman south. There is definitely no white privilege in Northern ireland. British privilege maybe. White privilege surely not

[Rojava Free State]

You realize that by arguing this fact you're just proving his point? Irish people are still heavily marginalized within the UK and Ireland itself, which has lead to hundreds of years of discrimination, both civil and external war, and basically genocide (But the UK doesn't like people calling it that).

You arguing that things like that aren't happening is just proving that it still is. You're trying to downplay the issues that are still present and identifiable in a Post-Troubles British Isles, namely by claiming that someone who was born and raised in one of the most terrorist heavy areas in the world is lying about what they and others experience and the problems there are nothing but make believe by those trying t gain any attention they can get.

I have issues with Plat's argumentation but he explicitly says Huskar's being marginalized.
Regradless of whether or not you think it fits in Husker's case: Do you think society bias are multifaceted and fucked enough to make you life like hell then in particular cases treat you better than others?
And do you think personal anecdote is enough to say for certain that these biases leading to prove better treatment don't exist?'
'
The data Plat brought up doesn't show he's privileged to not having a shitty time. But he's privileged from things that would add another load to the bs he's gotten.

Do angry mobs burning your house down sound like things could get much worse?

[Uiiop]

I have issues with Plat's argumentation but he explicitly says Huskar's being marginalized.
Regradless of whether or not you think it fits in Husker's case: Do you think society bias are multifaceted and fucked enough to make you life like hell then in particular cases treat you better than others?
And do you think personal anecdote is enough to say for certain that these biases leading to prove better treatment don't exist?'
'
The data Plat brought up doesn't show he's privileged to not having a shitty time. But he's privileged from things that would add another load to the bs he's gotten.

Do angry mobs burning your house down sound like things could get much worse?

The point is more "Distinct bad things" than "Worse things" per se. I admit "Adding things up" is oversimplified shite that doesn't describe how bs biases intersect and apologize for stating things that way.
But still that's something that doesn't come to play with the shit he has to go through so yeah i'm saying it could.

Tbf it's not like he doesn't feel it can't get worse given brexit and all that. Regardless of whether or not it could get worse for this particular reason.

[Rojava Free State]

Do angry mobs burning your house down sound like things could get much worse?

The point is more "Distinct bad things" than "Worse things" per se. I admit "Adding things up" is oversimplified shite that doesn't describe how bs biases intersect and apologize for stating things that way.
But still that's something that doesn't come to play with the shit he has to go through.

Is it privilege though if you go through bad things that are slightly different though? Like if someone firebombs the house of a Chinese immigrant to Ireland and tells him to go back to beijing, is it worse than if he firebombs an irishman's home and yells "IRISH OUT!"

[Uiiop]

The point is more "Distinct bad things" than "Worse things" per se. I admit "Adding things up" is oversimplified shite that doesn't describe how bs biases intersect and apologize for stating things that way.
But still that's something that doesn't come to play with the shit he has to go through.

Is it privilege though if you go through bad things that are slightly different though? Like if someone firebombs the house of a Chinese immigrant to Ireland and tells him to go back to beijing, is it worse than if he firebombs an irishman's home and yells "IRISH OUT!"

In regards to being firebombed only in the possible sense that being both might make the firebomings worse.
But that framing oversimplifies society's treatment of people just kinda leading me to spout the similar shite i pointed out earlier in my answer. Everyone whether it be a Chinese person, A black person, or a white Irishman has distinct yet overlapping ways in society which gives better or worse treatment than everyone else.
It isn't just multiple groups of people get a fire bombing.

[Chernoslavia]

Yes. That’s going to work.

Buddy you've angered an irishman, and even worse you angered him regarding his nationalism and the history of where he grew up. There is no calm down. That isn't a thing. You don't tell someone whose group was and still is targeted by British racists that they have "white privilege" when clearly the main leadership of northern Ireland in 1970 wanted to never share power with Irish Catholics and even today many of them still wish they could ship every last irishman south. There is definitely no white privilege in Northern ireland. British privilege maybe. White privilege surely not

Did he really just said that? Jesus fuck it's like he can't help himself shitting on anyone who's white.

[Uiiop]

Buddy you've angered an irishman, and even worse you angered him regarding his nationalism and the history of where he grew up. There is no calm down. That isn't a thing. You don't tell someone whose group was and still is targeted by British racists that they have "white privilege" when clearly the main leadership of northern Ireland in 1970 wanted to never share power with Irish Catholics and even today many of them still wish they could ship every last irishman south. There is definitely no white privilege in Northern ireland. British privilege maybe. White privilege surely not

Did he really just said that? Jesus fuck it's like he can't help himself shitting on anyone who's white.

That's isn't actually the real problem with what he said but ok.