Classes on Islam should be mandatory, UK teachers say

[Ors Might]

Because parents want to pull their children out of the class when it teaches about Islam.

---

Yeah, why should children understand the people they share the world with? That's pointless. Ignorance is great.

Ignorance is Strength.

I hadn’t realized UK schools were of such quality that they teach on every possible subject. Time management must be a bitch though.

[Ifreann]

Because parents want to pull their children out of the class when it teaches about Islam.

---

Yeah, why should children understand the people they share the world with? That's pointless. Ignorance is great.

Do UK schools have classes on Veganism?

I don't think so, but it sounds like a good idea.

[Vassenor]

Ignorance is Strength.

I hadn’t realized UK schools were of such quality that they teach on every possible subject. Time management must be a bitch though.

People acting like spending one hour a week learning about Religion will somehow wipe all the maths and science out of their brains.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Parents should not be allowed to selectively remove their children from religious education (RE) lessons, headteachers say, as study reveals many withdrawal requests are over the teaching of Islam.

More than two in five school leaders and RE teachers have received requests for students to be withdrawn from teaching about one religion, research from Liverpool Hope University has revealed.

I have to agree with the teachers, if LGBT classes are mandatory, why not classes on Islam?

LGBT issues are pretty plainly objective. Some people are attracted to the same sex, some are attracted to the opposite sex, and some can be attracted to either. There's some dispute about to what extent it's genetic, but that can be incorporated into biology.

With Islam... what's to teach? The Qur'an is a mess of contradictions, so that's right out. Who then gets to say what it should be associated with? Recent terror attacks? Surveys where respondents claim to want people executed over leaving the faith? Who gets to say what's notable and what isn't?

I sympathize with people being paid only 22000 pounds to spend all day and night shaping the next generation, but I think it's done a number on their sanity.

[N7eternia]

Because people are people, and they do not necessarily follow, adhere or even care about the more grittier parts and tennants of Islam. Even moreso as the majority of them was literally born into and didn choose it on their own. Actually the majority of muslims I know do not (seem to) care alot about the Islam stuff, and the few that do well, they are not pushy about it either. However they wouldn want to give it up either I think. I believe for most it is something they attempt or try to whitewash for themselfs and everyone else.

Theres a difference between that is supposed to be in regards to Islam and what actually is and thats a very good thing in this case.

Oh and you'd be surprised how much gay stuff is going on there...

Thank you. This is what I always think to conclusion on occasion but can never articulate. And... I'm still surprised to this very day.

[Purgatio]

Probably not (Mission failed we'll get em next time)

If it does include all others then why the living **** does the title say Islam

Because parents want to pull their children out of the class when it teaches about Islam.

---

I literally see no reason why people in the UK need to learn or understand about Islam. It will have zero bearing on their life or their future and if you're not a Muslim why do you need to know any of this stuff. It makes no sense.

Yeah, why should children understand the people they share the world with? That's pointless. Ignorance is great.

This isn't an argument. You haven't demonstrated how a child's future educational or career opportunities are bolstered by learning about the tenets of a particular religion, in this case, Islam. Religion is a personal belief system. If you don't belong to a religion why should you be forced to learn everything it preaches. Do you intend to have classes about Scientology? About the Order of the Solar Temple? About Christian Science? About Rastafarianism? Because your "ignorance is great" argument is an open-ended argument for teaching kids about every religion on the planet. You want to divert educational resources to this bullshit, go ahead. I'd rather schools focus on useful topics like, you know, math and science.

[Ors Might]

Do UK schools have classes on Veganism?

I don't think so, but it sounds like a good idea.

Not really. It’s not something that’s vital for the little rug rats to learn and you can barely justify the resources needed to make it an elective.

I hadn’t realized UK schools were of such quality that they teach on every possible subject. Time management must be a bitch though.

People acting like spending one hour a week learning about Religion will somehow wipe all the maths and science out of their brains.

More like that hour could be spent on better things.

[Ifreann]

Because parents want to pull their children out of the class when it teaches about Islam.

---

Yeah, why should children understand the people they share the world with? That's pointless. Ignorance is great.

This isn't an argument. You haven't demonstrated how a child's future educational or career opportunities are bolstered by learning about the tenets of a particular religion, in this case, Islam.

You're right, I'm not valuing education strictly in terms of future educational or career opportunities. Getting a job isn't the be all and end all of life. Children have to live in the world. They will be sharing that world with Muslims. It will benefit them to understand what Muslims believe.

Religion is a personal belief system. If you don't belong to a religion why should you be forced to learn everything it preaches.

Maybe not absolutely everything. Just the highlights.

Do you intend to have classes about Scientology?

Absolutely. Scientology is a dangerous scam, kids need to be taught how to keep out of the clutches of shit like that. Though come to think of it, a class explicitly about Scientology would probably just lead to a load of lawsuits.

About the Order of the Solar Temple?

Who?

About Christian Science?

Maybe in American schools.

About Rastafarianism?

Sure.

Because your "ignorance is great" argument is an open-ended argument for teaching kids about every religion on the planet.

That'd be cool, but there's only so many hours in the day, so schools should probably prioritise the major world religions, and maybe some minor ones.

You want to divert educational resources to this bullshit, go ahead. I'd rather schools focus on useful topics like, you know, math and science.

Those are good too, but you can't expect kids to spend eight hours a day on long division.

---

I don't think so, but it sounds like a good idea.

Not really. It’s not something that’s vital for the little rug rats to learn and you can barely justify the resources needed to make it an elective.

I'm sure it could be fit in to some other subject. It's not like veganism is massively complex.

[Rojava Free State]

Islam being crap doesn’t prevent individual Muslims from being alright. A girl I knew was pretty chill, religion wasn’t something we really focused. We both had an interest in show so we were able to bond over the shared experience of seeing it end. No idea where she is now but I count her as a friend.

Because people are people, and they do not necessarily follow, adhere or even care about the more grittier parts and tennants of Islam. Even moreso as the majority of them was literally born into and didn choose it on their own. Actually the majority of muslims I know do not (seem to) care alot about the Islam stuff, and the few that do well, they are not pushy about it either. However they wouldn want to give it up either I think. I believe for most it is something they attempt or try to whitewash for themselfs and everyone else.

Theres a difference between that is supposed to be in regards to Islam and what actually is and thats a very good thing in this case. The fundamentalism, the gritty parts. Thats something however thats always present in the background, omniously looming, more over themself than anything else.

Oh and you'd be surprised how much gay stuff is going on there...

I have a friend whose Palestinian (several actually but I'm talking about one in particular) and she used to work in a hair salon in Ramallah. I kid you not, this person who was either transgender or a cross dresser would come into her shop like twice a week to get their nails done. This stuff exists in the Levant, but I don't know about a place like Saudi Arabia

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

You're right, I'm not valuing education strictly in terms of future educational or career opportunities. Getting a job isn't the be all and end all of life. Children have to live in the world. They will be sharing that world with Muslims. It will benefit them to understand what Muslims believe.

No one can read minds. Interpretation of the contradiction-ridden Qur'an is down to the individual Muslim. Your best hope of figuring out what an individual Muslim believes is a conversation with that individual Muslim. Sometimes, even that might not be enough. But it's a step above telling us what another Muslim believes, or a book that says one thing and its opposite.

Maybe not absolutely everything. Just the highlights.

So who gets to say which parts are the most notable?

Absolutely. Scientology is a dangerous scam, kids need to be taught how to keep out of the clutches of shit like that. Though come to think of it, a class explicitly about Scientology would probably just lead to a load of lawsuits.

If any institution can afford the risk of a lawsuit, it's the education system.

Though why these scammers can't just be lined up against a wall and shot is beyond me.

That'd be cool, but there's only so many hours in the day, so schools should probably prioritise the major world religions, and maybe some minor ones.

Who gets to say which religious beliefs are notable and which aren't?

[Nakena]

Because people are people, and they do not necessarily follow, adhere or even care about the more grittier parts and tennants of Islam. Even moreso as the majority of them was literally born into and didn choose it on their own. Actually the majority of muslims I know do not (seem to) care alot about the Islam stuff, and the few that do well, they are not pushy about it either. However they wouldn want to give it up either I think. I believe for most it is something they attempt or try to whitewash for themselfs and everyone else.

Theres a difference between that is supposed to be in regards to Islam and what actually is and thats a very good thing in this case. The fundamentalism, the gritty parts. Thats something however thats always present in the background, omniously looming, more over themself than anything else.

Oh and you'd be surprised how much gay stuff is going on there...

I have a friend whose Palestinian (several actually but I'm talking about one in particular) and she used to work in a hair salon in Ramallah. I kid you not, this person who was either transgender or a cross dresser would come into her shop like twice a week to get their nails done. This stuff exists in the Levant, but I don't know about a place like Saudi Arabia

It absolutly exists in many middle eastern countries, most specifically in Lebanon and Turkey, more in the hidden elsewhere. And everyone knows it and is yet in denial, its widespread. But its all very hush-hush and not without dangers. In places like Saudi-Araiba and Iraq way more so than elsewhere.

Because it isnt supposed to exist.

[Ors Might]

This isn't an argument. You haven't demonstrated how a child's future educational or career opportunities are bolstered by learning about the tenets of a particular religion, in this case, Islam.

You're right, I'm not valuing education strictly in terms of future educational or career opportunities. Getting a job isn't the be all and end all of life. Children have to live in the world. They will be sharing that world with Muslims. It will benefit them to understand what Muslims believe.

Religion is a personal belief system. If you don't belong to a religion why should you be forced to learn everything it preaches.

Maybe not absolutely everything. Just the highlights.

Do you intend to have classes about Scientology?

Absolutely. Scientology is a dangerous scam, kids need to be taught how to keep out of the clutches of shit like that. Though come to think of it, a class explicitly about Scientology would probably just lead to a load of lawsuits.

About the Order of the Solar Temple?

Who?

About Christian Science?

Maybe in American schools.

About Rastafarianism?

Sure.

Because your "ignorance is great" argument is an open-ended argument for teaching kids about every religion on the planet.

That'd be cool, but there's only so many hours in the day, so schools should probably prioritise the major world religions, and maybe some minor ones.

You want to divert educational resources to this bullshit, go ahead. I'd rather schools focus on useful topics like, you know, math and science.

Those are good too, but you can't expect kids to spend eight hours a day on long division.

---

Not really. It’s not something that’s vital for the little rug rats to learn and you can barely justify the resources needed to make it an elective.

I'm sure it could be fit in to some other subject. It's not like veganism is massively complex.

The lack of complexity is why I can’t really justify it being an elective. A club would be better suited to it. At most, a couple lessons.

[Purgatio]

This isn't an argument. You haven't demonstrated how a child's future educational or career opportunities are bolstered by learning about the tenets of a particular religion, in this case, Islam.

You're right, I'm not valuing education strictly in terms of future educational or career opportunities. Getting a job isn't the be all and end all of life. Children have to live in the world. They will be sharing that world with Muslims. It will benefit them to understand what Muslims believe.

Religion is a personal belief system. If you don't belong to a religion why should you be forced to learn everything it preaches.

Maybe not absolutely everything. Just the highlights.

Do you intend to have classes about Scientology?

Absolutely. Scientology is a dangerous scam, kids need to be taught how to keep out of the clutches of shit like that. Though come to think of it, a class explicitly about Scientology would probably just lead to a load of lawsuits.

About the Order of the Solar Temple?

Who?

About Christian Science?

Maybe in American schools.

About Rastafarianism?

Sure.

Because your "ignorance is great" argument is an open-ended argument for teaching kids about every religion on the planet.

That'd be cool, but there's only so many hours in the day, so schools should probably prioritise the major world religions, and maybe some minor ones.

You want to divert educational resources to this bullshit, go ahead. I'd rather schools focus on useful topics like, you know, math and science.

Those are good too, but you can't expect kids to spend eight hours a day on long division.

---

Not really. It’s not something that’s vital for the little rug rats to learn and you can barely justify the resources needed to make it an elective.

I'm sure it could be fit in to some other subject. It's not like veganism is massively complex.

So when you say "we should focus on major world religions", you are acknowledging that 1) schools have a limited number of resources, both in terms of money, time and labour (ie teachers), and therefore we have to prioritise those resources in the direction of classes based on educational value and 2) you have asserted that "major world religions" have an educational value that demands re-diverting resources away from languages, history, mathematics or science, the kind of subjects that actually help you excel in higher education or professional degrees.

What justification could you possibly have for diverting resources towards classes on Islam beyond your vague suggestion that children will be "sharing that world with Muslims"? Why do children need to learn about Islam in order to get along with Muslims? I don't know all the central tenets of Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism and yet my school had numerous students from these religions, and those who were not, and funnily enough we didn't get into fights or hurt each other just because we didn't have "Buddhism classes" or "Taoism classes". Show me the tangible proof that classes on Islam actually aid the educational and developmental opportunities of children, that justifies the diversion of limited educational resources that could have otherwise gone to subjects with actual benefits to a child's future educational and career developmental opportunities.

[Ifreann]

You're right, I'm not valuing education strictly in terms of future educational or career opportunities. Getting a job isn't the be all and end all of life. Children have to live in the world. They will be sharing that world with Muslims. It will benefit them to understand what Muslims believe.

No one can read minds. Interpretation of the contradiction-ridden Qur'an is down to the individual Muslim. Your best hope of figuring out what an individual Muslim believes is a conversation with that individual Muslim. Sometimes, even that might not be enough. But it's a step above telling us what another Muslim believes, or a book that says one thing and its opposite.

I dare say there's common themes.

Maybe not absolutely everything. Just the highlights.

So who gets to say which parts are the most notable?

Whoever sets the curriculum.

Absolutely. Scientology is a dangerous scam, kids need to be taught how to keep out of the clutches of shit like that. Though come to think of it, a class explicitly about Scientology would probably just lead to a load of lawsuits.

If any institution can afford the risk of a lawsuit, it's the education system.

Not really.

Though why these scammers can't just be lined up against a wall and shot is beyond me.

It's this whole thing where the death penalty is bad. Don't worry about it.

That'd be cool, but there's only so many hours in the day, so schools should probably prioritise the major world religions, and maybe some minor ones.

Who gets to say which religious beliefs are notable and which aren't?

The same people that set the curriculum.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

No one can read minds. Interpretation of the contradiction-ridden Qur'an is down to the individual Muslim. Your best hope of figuring out what an individual Muslim believes is a conversation with that individual Muslim. Sometimes, even that might not be enough. But it's a step above telling us what another Muslim believes, or a book that says one thing and its opposite.

I dare say there's common themes.

So who gets to say which parts are the most notable?

Whoever sets the curriculum.

If any institution can afford the risk of a lawsuit, it's the education system.

Not really.

Though why these scammers can't just be lined up against a wall and shot is beyond me.

It's this whole thing where the death penalty is bad. Don't worry about it.

Who gets to say which religious beliefs are notable and which aren't?

The same people that set the curriculum.

So you admit that there's nothing meaningful measure of notability other than "because someone in authority said so?"

[The Hindustani State]

General question: How can you be a feminist and support LGBT rights while at the same time supporting Islam?

[Vassenor]

General question: How can you be a feminist and support LGBT rights while at the same time supporting Islam?

And there we go with the identity politics.

[Nakena]

General question: How can you be a feminist and support LGBT rights while at the same time supporting Islam?

You can't unless you perform excessive amounts of double-think or morph one of those things to fit the other ones.

[Aureumterra]

General question: How can you be a feminist and support LGBT rights while at the same time supporting Islam?

You can't unless you perform excessive amounts of double-think or morph one of those things to fit the other ones.

Or be Gauth

[Purgatio]

General question: How can you be a feminist and support LGBT rights while at the same time supporting Islam?

I genuinely don't understand it but some people out there can manage the contradictory mental gymnastics, despite so many polls out there making abundantly-clear what the Muslim community in the West thinks about the LGBT community.

[Ors Might]

General question: How can you be a feminist and support LGBT rights while at the same time supporting Islam?

And there we go with the identity politics.

Odd how you only criticize identity politics when they’re inconvenient for you. It’s no more incorrect to say that Islam has a lot of problems with LGBT and women’s rights than it is to say the same of Christianity. And yet somehow I can’t see you bitching about someone criticizing the latter.

[The Hindustani State]

General question: How can you be a feminist and support LGBT rights while at the same time supporting Islam?

And there we go with the identity politics.

Is it not a valid question?

[Purgatio]

And there we go with the identity politics.

Is it not a valid question?

It is, criticising you for "identity politics" is a substitute for having to answer a tough question

[The Alma Mater]

I hadn’t realized UK schools were of such quality that they teach on every possible subject. Time management must be a bitch though.

People acting like spending one hour a week learning about Religion will somehow wipe all the maths and science out of their brains.

Well, all those antivaxxers and creationists do come from somewhere...

[Aureumterra]

And there we go with the identity politics.

Is it not a valid question?

You’ve never interacted with Vass much have you?