Classes on Islam should be mandatory, UK teachers say

[Heartsfall]

Absolutely not.

If you want to teach your kid(s) about a particular religion, teach them at home. Or at their church/mosque/whatever. Religion has no place in school.

[Kowani]

Absolutely not.

If you want to teach your kid(s) about a particular religion, teach them at home. Or at their church/mosque/whatever. Religion has no place in school.

Oh, look. Someone else who didn’t read the OP.

[American Pere Housh]

Absolutely not.

If you want to teach your kid(s) about a particular religion, teach them at home. Or at their church/mosque/whatever. Religion has no place in school.

Oh, look. Someone else who didn’t read the OP.

Really Kowani, no need to be snarky about it.

[Big Jim P]

We should have classes on Islam (and other) religions here in the States.

[Vassenor]

We should have classes on Islam (and other) religions here in the States.

After the whole "we shouldn't be teaching our kids Arabic numerals" thing I do not see that going over well with the conservatives.

[Tombradyonia]

If you got classes on Islam, I think you need to have classes on all major religions ranging from Judaism to Paganism. To pick and choose a specific religion sounds like you're trying to indoctrinate people.

Although I'm a conservative cis-gender guy, I think LGBT+ teachings are fine because it isn't my place to tell you what you can/cannot do in life. LGBT+ information is not the same as teaching about a specific religion. If it was a world religions class, that would make more sense.

Somehow I suspect that making it mandatory to have classes on judaism or homosexuality in schools with students that are majority islamic back ground isn't what they want. They want you to learn about theirs (whilst leaving the violent bits out, which christians do too) but not them learning about yours.

I would agree that it's a good think to cover religion in general, but not to give any special attention to any of it. Children could be taught how some of the adherents to the 'major' religions love to ignore science, how the 'holy' books contain endless contradictions and inconsistencies and generally call for the slavery or murder of those who aren't of the same religion, which has lead to conflict over and over again over the last 2k years (hell, and before).

[Vassenor]

...so apparently we should only be teaching kids about religion in the sense that we should be preaching about how all religions are pure evil.

Its like we've stumbled onto reddit by accident.

[Kowani]

Oh, look. Someone else who didn’t read the OP.

Really Kowani, no need to be snarky about it.

When am I ever not snarky?

[Neanderthaland]

We should have classes on Islam (and other) religions here in the States.

After the whole "we shouldn't be teaching our kids Arabic numerals" thing I do not see that going over well with the conservatives.

"Alright kids, now who can graph y = VIIx^II + XIXx + IV?"

[Kowani]

...so apparently we should only be teaching kids about religion in the sense that we should be preaching about how all religions are pure evil.

Its like we've stumbled onto reddit by accident.

Hey, if it works, it works.

[Tombradyonia]

...so apparently we should only be teaching kids about religion in the sense that we should be preaching about how all religions are pure evil.

Its like we've stumbled onto reddit by accident.

The track record of islam and christianity speaks for itself. Tens of millions of people killed, if indeed not more. And no, there is no "misinterpreting the 'peaceful' 'holy' books"... quite the contrary. It's following the example of the calls to violence from those same books.

The two most prominent examples are:

1 Colonization of the Americas by christian conquistadors in the name of their 'god'. Biblical examples include the conquest of Canaan and the genocide of the Medianites by Moses which both ended in large scale murder approved by their 'god'. The Canaan narrative has an unusual amount of detail not found elsewhere in the bible in similar episodes and speaks of dashing babies to death and ripping open pregnant women's bellies with swords. In both episodes, all are killed except the young nubile virgin girls).

2 Invasion and occupation of the Indus valley by muslim Mughal warlords in the name of their 'god'. Quranic example is the massacre of the Banu Qurayza tribe on the specific orders of Muhammad himself, their 'crime' seems to have been to dare to deny Muhammad's 'prophethood'... this is often excused by modern day apologists with baseless accusations about an attack by the Qurayza).

Both the situation in the Americas as well as the Indus valley reach up to a 100 million non-believers or other-believers killed (based on estimates).
Part of them (first wave) accidental on account of disease and stuff, but most of them quite deliberately. Ranging from wholesale slaughter of tribes who had dared to chase away a christian missionary (the Portuguese and Spanish were particularly brutal when this happened) to regional/annual 'kill' quotas set for local Mughal warlords to kill hindus.

If anything, why aren't those things taught in school these days?

[Risottia]

So how should this be fixed? Children can't learn about Islam if parents refuse to let them. Should the law be changed? I think so and teachers agree.

It should be fixed in a very simple way: either you get religious education or you don't, wholesale. You don't get to dump parts of the teaching.
The best way would just be abolishing any kind of religious education from schools. Religious education belongs to places of worship. The history of the human phenomenon known as religion should be a part of the history/philosophy curriculum.

teachers agree.

Teachers agree according to a "totally unbiased" source.

The majority (71 per cent) of teachers believe a law allowing parents to withdraw their children from RE is no longer required, according to the study in the British Journal of Religious Education.

Bold mine.

[Petrolheadia]

We should have classes on Islam (and other) religions here in the States.

After the whole "we shouldn't be teaching our kids Arabic numerals" thing I do not see that going over well with the conservatives.

How many conservatives actually think that?

[Vassenor]

After the whole "we shouldn't be teaching our kids Arabic numerals" thing I do not see that going over well with the conservatives.

How many conservatives actually think that?

>looks back at this thread

[Tombradyonia]

We should have classes on Islam (and other) religions here in the States.

After the whole "we shouldn't be teaching our kids Arabic numerals" thing I do not see that going over well with the conservatives.

You refer to Hindu numerals? The system was invented almost 2 millennia ago by Indian scientists. Sure, the region got invaded and occupied/colonized a few hundred years later, and the occupiers appropriated it, but that doesn't make it an invention by the occupiers.

[Chessmistress]

I have to agree with the teachers, if LGBT classes are mandatory, why not classes on Islam?

Because Islam is a religion while LGB classes are about sexual orientation of people: the first is a choice, the second it's not a choice but a biological feature.

Mandatory classes about Islam would be like mandatory classes about Hinduism, Veganism or Buddhism.

Teachers warned in April last year that parents were increasingly abusing the right to withdraw their children from religious education lessons due to their prejudices.

There's no such thing as "abusing of a right": a right, by definition, have to be freely exercised.

So how should this be fixed? Children can't learn about Islam if parents refuse to let them. Should the law be changed? I think so and teachers agree.

Why children should be forced to learn about Islam and not about Hinduism or Veganism? Or even Christianity?

There are 1.8 billion muslims in the world, 1.1 billion people following Hindusim, 2.4 bllion people following christianity, and 0.6 billion people exclusively following Buddhism + a lot more people partially following Buddhist reccomendations / philosophy - taking in account the second factor then the sum of Buddhism is well over 1 billion, very likely even over 1.5 billion, and chances are that's ore or less on pair with Islam.

[Vassenor]

After the whole "we shouldn't be teaching our kids Arabic numerals" thing I do not see that going over well with the conservatives.

You refer to Hindu numerals? The system was invented almost 2 millennia ago by Indian scientists. Sure, the region got invaded and occupied/colonized a few hundred years later, and the occupiers appropriated it, but that doesn't make it an invention by the occupiers.

This is the sort of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.

And it doesn't really change my point - we call them Arabic Numerals, and some people decided that made them a Muslim thing and thus bad.

[Tombradyonia]

Why children should be forced to learn about Islam and not about Hinduism or Veganism? Or even Christianity?

There are 1.8 billion muslims in the world, 1.1 billion people following Hindusim, 2.4 bllion people following christianity, and 0.6 billion people exclusively following Buddhism + a lot more people partially following Buddhist reccomendations / philosophy - taking in account the second factor then the sum of Buddhism is well over 1 billion, very likely even over 1.5 billion, and chances are that's ore or less on pair with Islam.

I really question those numbers. I think there's many 'religion in name only' people that are counted as religious. Probably because they live in regions of the world where religion is still the default setting, or in regions where pretending to be religious is good for your health on account of local religious fanatics.

Whilst not being a statistically significant number, I can point at at least a dozen people I know who are likely counted as religious but who I have never seen practising even the most basic religious anything.

[Vassenor]

Why children should be forced to learn about Islam and not about Hinduism or Veganism? Or even Christianity?

There are 1.8 billion muslims in the world, 1.1 billion people following Hindusim, 2.4 bllion people following christianity, and 0.6 billion people exclusively following Buddhism + a lot more people partially following Buddhist reccomendations / philosophy - taking in account the second factor then the sum of Buddhism is well over 1 billion, very likely even over 1.5 billion, and chances are that's ore or less on pair with Islam.

Someone didn't bother looking into this, I see.

Religious Education classes in the UK cover all the major religions, not just Islam. The issue was that parents were trying to have the kids pulled from the specific days when Islam was the topic for whatever reason.

[Chessmistress]

Why children should be forced to learn about Islam and not about Hinduism or Veganism? Or even Christianity?

There are 1.8 billion muslims in the world, 1.1 billion people following Hindusim, 2.4 bllion people following christianity, and 0.6 billion people exclusively following Buddhism + a lot more people partially following Buddhist reccomendations / philosophy - taking in account the second factor then the sum of Buddhism is well over 1 billion, very likely even over 1.5 billion, and chances are that's ore or less on pair with Islam.

I really question those numbers. I think there's many 'religion in name only' people that are counted as religious. Probably because they live in regions of the world where religion is still the default setting, or in regions where pretending to be religious is good for your health on account of local religious fanatics.

Whilst not being a statistically significant number, I can point at at least a dozen people I know who are likely counted as religious but who I have never seen practising even the most basic religious anything.

Such rationale can be applied to every religion, so it doesn't change the proportion.
Still, if someone propose mandatory Islam classes, then there's no reason to not support mandatory Christian, Hinduism, Buddhist classes.

Furthermore questioning the numbers lacks respect: if someone tells that s/he follow a religion, then you have to take her/his words.

[Kowani]

I really question those numbers. I think there's many 'religion in name only' people that are counted as religious. Probably because they live in regions of the world where religion is still the default setting, or in regions where pretending to be religious is good for your health on account of local religious fanatics.

Whilst not being a statistically significant number, I can point at at least a dozen people I know who are likely counted as religious but who I have never seen practising even the most basic religious anything.

Such rationale can be applied to every religion, so it doesn't change the proportion.
Still, if someone propose mandatory Islam classes, then there's no reason to not support mandatory Christian, Hinduism, Buddhist classes.

Furthermore questioning the numbers lacks respect: if someone tells that s/he follow a religion, then you have to take her/his words.

Yeah. I’m sure that’ll work in Muslim countries with the death penalty for apostasy.

[N7eternia]

Here we go again, people pretending Islam is the only Abrahamic religion that opposes LGBTs and talks about the subservience of women.

The gays need to start a religion where we can religiously drag each other for filth.

[Tombradyonia]

https://www.economist.com/britain/2019/ ... ary-school

British Muslim parents oppose LGBT lessons in primary school
The parents seem to have won the latest battle in a new culture war

WHEREAS AMERICA has culture wars between secular liberals and conservative Christians, cultural battles in Europe increasingly pit secular liberals against conservative Muslims. A noisy skirmish over sex education in a Muslim district of the English Midlands could be a sign of things to come.

Since early February parents have been demonstrating outside Parkfield Community School in Birmingham because their children, aged between four and 11, have been receiving lessons about same-sex relationships. The “No Outsiders” classes, pioneered by Parkfield’s assistant head, Andrew Moffatt, are offered for use in schools, libraries and parent-teacher groups across England, and cover topics grouped under buzzwords like equality and diversity.

I would ask the OP this, should these classes be made mandatory as well?

[Chessmistress]

Why children should be forced to learn about Islam and not about Hinduism or Veganism? Or even Christianity?

There are 1.8 billion muslims in the world, 1.1 billion people following Hindusim, 2.4 bllion people following christianity, and 0.6 billion people exclusively following Buddhism + a lot more people partially following Buddhist reccomendations / philosophy - taking in account the second factor then the sum of Buddhism is well over 1 billion, very likely even over 1.5 billion, and chances are that's ore or less on pair with Islam.

Someone didn't bother looking into this, I see.

Religious Education classes in the UK cover all the major religions, not just Islam. The issue was that parents were trying to have the kids pulled from the specific days when Islam was the topic for whatever reason.

OP is about making Islam classes mandatory, not all religions.

Your second consideration is interesting, and it highlights a flaw of the UK education system: either parents choose to have their kids not following religious education, or parents choose to have their kids following religious education.
It's very easy to fix it.

[Crockerland]

Here we go again, people pretending Islam is the only Abrahamic religion that opposes LGBTs and talks about the subservience of women.

Islam is the only major religion whose main prophetic figure explicitly commanded the murder of gay people for being gay, and all nations that still put gay people to death for being gay are Islamic.