Classes on Islam should be mandatory, UK teachers say

[The Lone Alliance]

Look at how hate crimes against Muslims are on the rise in the US since Trump was elected.

Unless those crime statistics are false as well?

Since when did you give a shit about Muslims being victimized? You started off saying the West was appeasing them because it's scared of Islamic terrorism.

No my original post said terrorism, not Islamic terrorism.

You inserted "Islamic" into the post.

[Playing In The Water]

Shall we get into a pissing contest about all the atrocities the entire Muslim community has committed, then? Or the Christians? How about the various non-denominationals? Nobody on this planet is innocent. We are most all of us victims and perpetrators by this point, and I thought the entire point of those RE and history classes was to dispel the hatred between such groups. Please don't tell me you started this thread topic about students being pulled from one religion in the course but approve of students shouting down being taught the very real facts about another.

Sure so long as the plight of Palestinians is taught as well.

You really need to stop pretending that I have at any point suggested the injustices against Muslims are any less important than those perpetrated against others. I am still waiting to hear your condemnation of those Netherlands-based students who are opposed to learning about the Holocaust, as an aside. How in the world is anyone supposed to start to heal if we don't let ourselves - and, yes, our children too - learn about what causes such hatred and vitriol? Perhaps Muslims being taught the history behind why Israel is such a harsh, uncompromising state might help foster understanding between both; Muslim hatred of the Jewish people (and vice versa) is just one long chapter in the same playbook that has been running nonstop since the 1930's.

Why should anything change if both sides refuse to even consider where the other is coming from? All we get from refusal to accept that the other side is human is exactly what we've had for the past several decades: hatred; atrocities; suffering; and stagnation.

[Rojava Free State]

No. Just, no. Make classes on Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Sikhism mandatory too then. Oh right...

Or just have one Religious Education class, and don't indulge parents who want to opt their children out of the Islam part of the class.

---

You need to eat to survive. You don't need to know about Islam to survive

Education is beneficial, even if you'd rather be posting on NSG than learning.

We don't need to know about Islam and I don't wanna know anymore. The amount I already know is too much for me to handle

Just eat some soy. All the best brain pills are made from it.

Don't need brain pills. I already have enough of one to know that no one should be forced to learn about any religion and that Islam is a backwards belief system that doesn't fit in the present dsy, kinda like most religions in general

[Al Mumtahanah]

The people using genocide as a pretense for imperialism are the ones mocking it. No one is going to care about something that happened eighty years ago when it's being used constantly as a pretext for current crimes.

The ones directly mocking the genocide are also the ones mocking it.

I didn’t realize that Islam only promotes empathy when it’s convenient for the practitioner. The victims of the Holocaust are not the Israelis exploiting it. Do you personally not care for the victims of the Holocaust?

I care more about people suffering now. The Jews are not the only people who suffered genocide, many did, many, and still do. But the genocide of Jews gets constant, disproportionate attention because Israel needs the pretense. Covering what is happening to Palestinians right now is more important.

[Ors Might]

The ones directly mocking the genocide are also the ones mocking it.

I didn’t realize that Islam only promotes empathy when it’s convenient for the practitioner. The victims of the Holocaust are not the Israelis exploiting it. Do you personally not care for the victims of the Holocaust?

I care more about people suffering now. The Jews are not the only people who suffered genocide, many did, many, and still do. But the genocide of Jews gets constant, disproportionate attention because Israel needs the pretense. Covering what is happening to Palestinians right now is more important.

And you can do that without defending kids calling Jews vile when its time to learn about the Holocaust.

[Rojava Free State]

Oh right, Anders Breivik set off car bombs and gunned down kids because Norway confronted Islam and emboldened him. How long did it take you pull that rationale out of the ass?

Look at how hate crimes against Muslims are on the rise in the US since Trump was elected.
Last I read I heard they had been increasing since he took office.

And Anders Breivik doesn't really count as an attack on Muslims, a better comparison would be the New Zealand shooter who was emboldened by outside influences making him believe he had support.

You know we can both condemn Islam as an ideology while also condemning murdering people for their beliefs, right? I mean that's kinda. A big reason I don't like islam, because it kills people for disagreement so I would be no better than that religion if I called for people to kill muslims. We need to teach people how to disagree peacefully

[Rojava Free State]

The ones directly mocking the genocide are also the ones mocking it.

I didn’t realize that Islam only promotes empathy when it’s convenient for the practitioner. The victims of the Holocaust are not the Israelis exploiting it. Do you personally not care for the victims of the Holocaust?

I care more about people suffering now. The Jews are not the only people who suffered genocide, many did, many, and still do. But the genocide of Jews gets constant, disproportionate attention because Israel needs the pretense. Covering what is happening to Palestinians right now is more important.

I don't like that people obsess A lot about the holocaust but I still don't call the Jews vile or shit on those who died in the massacre. These kids need to show some respect for the dead

[Gormwood]

Since when did you give a shit about Muslims being victimized? You started off saying the West was appeasing them because it's scared of Islamic terrorism.

No my original post said terrorism, not Islamic terrorism.

You inserted "Islamic" into the post.

Nice try editing the post.

In my little experience so far with Muslims in general, right now for me, I realize that they have a very different way of thinking and communication which is extremely frustrating for me. They never really say what they mean and because I'm not Muslim---unless I'm trusted by them---I will always sense the barrier of 'keep this non-Muslim at arms length.'

If I was a kid again, with a fresh slate from all religions, maybe this wouldn't bother me because I simply just don't know. Right now? I still don't know. Islam seems to be stuck at a place in time where everything is set in stone and nothing can change.

Why should they change when the West bends over backwards to appease and apologize for Islam's problems because not doing so leads to terrorism?

Not hard to read you're implying Islamic terrorism.

[Ifreann]

Or just have one Religious Education class, and don't indulge parents who want to opt their children out of the Islam part of the class.

---

Education is beneficial, even if you'd rather be posting on NSG than learning.


Just eat some soy. All the best brain pills are made from it.

Don't need brain pills. I already have enough of one to know that no one should be forced to learn about any religion

We would be doing children a terrible disservice if we raised them to adulthood without teaching them about the major world religions, at the very least.

and that Islam is a backwards belief system that doesn't fit in the present dsy, kinda like most religions in general

A very large majority of the world adheres to some kind of religion. However enlightened you might imagine yourself to be in dismissing them all, you are promoting profound ignorance.

[Aureumterra]

No, they shouldn't

[Hirota]

We need less religious nonsense in schools, not more.

[Ifreann]

We need less religious nonsense in schools, not more.

Ignorance, as we all know, is strength.

[Caracasus]

Isn't this already the case? When I was a kid we had RE classes and we'd spend an hour each week (or every other week) supposedly learning about religions.

[Rojava Free State]

We need less religious nonsense in schools, not more.

Ignorance, as we all know, is strength.

If I agreed with that, I would support forcing kids to learn about religions

[The Lone Alliance]

Look at how hate crimes against Muslims are on the rise in the US since Trump was elected.
Last I read I heard they had been increasing since he took office.

And Anders Breivik doesn't really count as an attack on Muslims, a better comparison would be the New Zealand shooter who was emboldened by outside influences making him believe he had support.

You know we can both condemn Islam as an ideology while also condemning murdering people for their beliefs, right? I mean that's kinda. A big reason I don't like islam, because it kills people for disagreement so I would be no better than that religion if I called for people to kill muslims. We need to teach people how to disagree peacefully

I'm in complete agreement with you, but part of the problem is that the entire discourse has been poisoned thanks to radicals and because it's useful to simply paint all of your opponents as extremists.

[Rojava Free State]

Don't need brain pills. I already have enough of one to know that no one should be forced to learn about any religion

We would be doing children a terrible disservice if we raised them to adulthood without teaching them about the major world religions, at the very least.

and that Islam is a backwards belief system that doesn't fit in the present dsy, kinda like most religions in general

A very large majority of the world adheres to some kind of religion. However enlightened you might imagine yourself to be in dismissing them all, you are promoting profound ignorance.

I don't care if almost everyone believes them. Their religions believe in a God whose existence is yet to be proven and support unbelievably horrific acts of violence. You're basically calling me ignorant for not believing things such as the following:

•That God killed every first born Egyptian after he made the king tell the Jews they couldn't leave Egypt
•That the voice Mohammed was hearing in his head was God
•That noah fit a bunch of animals on a boat and they rode out a giant flood before repopulation earth r
•That God made the world in 6 days
•That an evil red man with horns is tempting mankind to sin

Yeah, I'm so ignorant for not believing those things, aren't I ifreann? I'm such a terrible person for thinking all those beliefs sound ridiculous and fake

[Caracasus]

Ignorance, as we all know, is strength.

If I agreed with that, I would support forcing kids to learn about religions

What? RE lessons aren't religious indoctrination. They just go over what people who follow that religion believe, holy days, important historical events etc.

If you were learning about christianity for instance, you might have to write an essay on the reformation. The teacher isn't gonna get everyone to start praying or whatever.

I mean, this is the assessment objectives for a religious studies GCSE. At no point does it say that the student must begin following a religion. It's about understanding religions in cultural and historical context.

https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/religio ... assessment

[Rojava Free State]

If I agreed with that, I would support forcing kids to learn about religions

What? RE lessons aren't religious indoctrination. They just go over what people who follow that religion believe, holy days, important historical events etc.

If you were learning about christianity for instance, you might have to write an essay on the reformation. The teacher isn't gonna get everyone to start praying or whatever.

I mean, this is the assessment objectives for a religious studies GCSE. At no point does it say that the student must begin following a religion. It's about understanding religions in cultural and historical context.

https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/religio ... assessment

while I'm not offended by the idea of teaching all religions in an equal and non partisan manner, I'm still curious as to why that should be a required class and not an elective

[Myfanwyski]

Sorry but... Islam is the most violent religion in the world. It is like saying "Let's make IRA classes mandatory"

I mean, nothing wrong with learning about the IRA. The IRA is a pretty big part of British history. Islam isn't.

Islam is the most violent religion in the world- um- I think 'Christianity' might just pip it over the years.- both have peaceful and warlike faces

The IRA is a pretty big part of British history. Islam isn't- weren't the crusades something to do with getting back Jerusalem from Islam?
- the influence of Islamic science and keeping classical knowledge alive - very important
- the British Empire just happened to contain many Islamic nations and dealt with others.
- the Middle East problems and division of India.

IRA is relatively recent by comparison.

Islam in RE?- if just cursory it's ok- but the danger is any proselytizing by the radicals element of islam

similar dangers exist with largely US 'Christians' with their anti gay, anti abortion, creationist agendas.

Hopefully RE is just a way of examining morality and explaining differences and similarities between faiths.

WE could really do with a good dollop of agnosticism and maybe the world would be more faithful.

[Gormwood]

Ignorance, as we all know, is strength.

If I agreed with that, I would support forcing kids to learn about religions

Sounds like you'd support the Taliban demolishing the Buddhist statues.

[Rojava Free State]

I mean, nothing wrong with learning about the IRA. The IRA is a pretty big part of British history. Islam isn't.

Islam is the most violent religion in the world- um- I think 'Christianity' might just pip it over the years.- both have peaceful and warlike faces

The IRA is a pretty big part of British history. Islam isn't- weren't the crusades something to do with getting back Jerusalem from Islam?
- the influence of Islamic science and keeping classical knowledge alive - very important
- the British Empire just happened to contain many Islamic nations and dealt with others.
- the Middle East problems and division of India.

IRA is relatively recent by comparison.

Islam in RE?- if just cursory it's ok- but the danger is any proselytizing by the radicals element of islam

similar dangers exist with largely US 'Christians' with their anti gay, anti abortion, creationist agendas.

Hopefully RE is just a way of examining morality and explaining differences and similarities between faiths.

WE could really do with a good dollop of agnosticism and maybe the world would be more faithful.

The IRA is rather recent in English history but conflict with the Irish isnt. Ireland was the first colonial outpost of England before it took india, much of the middle East, half of africa and parts of North America

[Caracasus]

What? RE lessons aren't religious indoctrination. They just go over what people who follow that religion believe, holy days, important historical events etc.

If you were learning about christianity for instance, you might have to write an essay on the reformation. The teacher isn't gonna get everyone to start praying or whatever.

I mean, this is the assessment objectives for a religious studies GCSE. At no point does it say that the student must begin following a religion. It's about understanding religions in cultural and historical context.

https://www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/religio ... assessment

while I'm not offended by the idea of teaching all religions in an equal and non partisan manner, I'm still curious as to why that should be a required class and not an elective

Because like it or not, our culture, our philosophies and the ideologies that make up our society are intertwined with religion. You don't have to particularly like it (I am an agnostic myself and not a fan of organised religion) to recognise the huge influence religion had and still has on shaping our world. It's important to study it and understand it, it's even more important to study it if you're
going to criticise it.

[Rojava Free State]

while I'm not offended by the idea of teaching all religions in an equal and non partisan manner, I'm still curious as to why that should be a required class and not an elective

Because like it or not, our culture, our philosophies and the ideologies that make up our society are intertwined with religion. You don't have to particularly like it (I am an agnostic myself and not a fan of organised religion) to recognise the huge influence religion had and still has on shaping our world. It's important to study it and understand it, it's even more important to study it if you're
going to criticise it.

Yes it is important to study it if you're gonna criticize it, but I don't see why that should be part of public education and not something you do on your own

[Al Mumtahanah]

We would be doing children a terrible disservice if we raised them to adulthood without teaching them about the major world religions, at the very least.

A very large majority of the world adheres to some kind of religion. However enlightened you might imagine yourself to be in dismissing them all, you are promoting profound ignorance.

I don't care if almost everyone believes them. Their religions believe in a God whose existence is yet to be proven and support unbelievably horrific acts of violence. You're basically calling me ignorant for not believing things such as the following:

•That God killed every first born Egyptian after he made the king tell the Jews they couldn't leave Egypt
•That the voice Mohammed was hearing in his head was God
•That noah fit a bunch of animals on a boat and they rode out a giant flood before repopulation earth r
•That God made the world in 6 days
•That an evil red man with horns is tempting mankind to sin

Yeah, I'm so ignorant for not believing those things, aren't I ifreann? I'm such a terrible person for thinking all those beliefs sound ridiculous and fake

That is not one of the plagues of Egypt in the Qur'an

It wasn't "in his head", it was an angel.

The Deluge wasn't sent against the planet, just the people Noah (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was sent to warn.

Allah's (Glorified and Exalted is He) days are not human days, the Qur'an says this multiple times.

Iblis is not a man and doesn't have horns, he is a mortal being and his substance is photonic or something in that vein.

[Rojava Free State]

If I agreed with that, I would support forcing kids to learn about religions

Sounds like you'd support the Taliban demolishing the Buddhist statues.

No, i wouldn't because I don't support institutional religion. How does that have anything to do with me saying I don't think kids should be forced to learn about islam? I didn't advocate for people to tear mosques down