"My Body, My Choice!": Should it Extend to Suicide?

[Vanyalonde]

There should be a waiting period to prevent impulse suicides (much acute active suicidal ideation goes away on a scale of days, and individuals who impulsively attempt suicide during such a state generally express gratitude if they are prevented) but after maybe a couple months of someone being committed to their own death, they should be allowed to make their choice. From a pro-choice standpoint, waiting periods are a bad idea for abortions because abortions become more invasive and traumatic (and the fetus develops further) the longer the waiting period; this is not a concern for suicidal people. As far as I know, impulse suicides are also more common than impulse abortions. Suicidal people should be encouraged to try last-ditch treatment options during their waiting period, just in case, but not forced, and they shouldn’t be pressured to stay alive for the sake of family or so on; it seems profoundly selfish to me to keep somebody around for your own pleasure if they want to die. We are all going to die someday; isn’t it better to have time to say goodbye, and then die painlessly at a time of your choosing, than to die randomly in a car accident or heart attack?

[Abaja]

I have a hard time understanding how helping someone out is selfish.

Your line of reaoning is "if person A commits suicide, I (person B) will feel bad. Therefor person A should not be allowed to do so".
That is purely selfish.

Wow. The way you look at it is absolutely distorted. I'm literally saying that if a person is feeling suicidal then we should take steps in resolving that issue. You can keep misunderstanding me if you want. But that isn't selfish.

[New haven america]

Your line of reaoning is "if person A commits suicide, I (person B) will feel bad. Therefor person A should not be allowed to do so".
That is purely selfish.

Wow. The way you look at it is absolutely distorted. I'm literally saying that if a person is feeling suicidal then we should take steps in resolving that issue. You can keep misunderstanding me if you want. But that isn't selfish.

People should totally get help if their suicidal, very few people are arguing against that fact.

However, claiming suicide is wrong because it will make others feel bad is in itself, selfish.

[N7eternia]

I also want to add to that the physical, painful, suffering over time (this is usually in regards to euthanasia.) It seems to me that in general (not in this thread or the site) people think that you should have this amazing willpower to live and survive. It's easier said than done. Oh, you're suicidal? Go see a therapist. Take medication, go outside, exercise, etc, etc. Sometimes they'll even guilt trip you in with things like; 'what would your loved ones think?' And that's fair too, but in both sides it's still the truth. There's a huge gap on the lack of empathy when it comes to the person actually dying by suicide. You just don't know what that person was going through in their mind and the worst thing is---how dare you shame them and put such a judgmental negative connotation to it. All I know is, is that that's not a solution for people thinking about suicide, attempted it, or survived it.

[Page]

Your line of reaoning is "if person A commits suicide, I (person B) will feel bad. Therefor person A should not be allowed to do so".
That is purely selfish.

Wow. The way you look at it is absolutely distorted. I'm literally saying that if a person is feeling suicidal then we should take steps in resolving that issue. You can keep misunderstanding me if you want. But that isn't selfish.

I don't think anyone disagrees with wanting a suicidal person to get help that can give them a better quality of life and end their desire for suicide when possible. The problem is such cases where the issue cannot be resolved, when one maintains a consistent desire to end their life despite whatever attempts to help them are made, and these situations do not only exist for terminally ill people. There are some conditions physical and/or psychological where there is no effective treatment and only palliative care is available, and humane palliative care might include helping one painlessly end their life.

[Thepeopl]

So for all pro life ppl.

An individual should not have the right to kill themselves. Because it is in the holy scripture.

It also states: Go Forth and procreate.

So how do you justify ppl who are infertile? Is it not the higher beings choice to make you infertile?

In the bible is written: Mine is the vengeance. So translated to now: we are not allowed to punish criminals, murderers or infidels. Or do you argue that all criminals are witches? In that case we should kill them all (Thou shall not suffer a witch to live). In which case one can profess to be a witch and be killed by religious fanatics

Anyone who wants to die, should have the opportunity to do so, helped by professionals.
So they can put their estates in order, say goodbye to loved ones/ community and not suffer the stigma of being "unnatural" or "crazy". As we had Earth Overshoot day yesterday, the earth will thank you for not further depleting the natural resources.

[Highever]

This makes about as much sense as charging a dominatrix with assault.

Is it really a crime if the "victim" wants it?

Yes.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Are you trying to say by this that suicide attempts should be criminalized?

[Alvecia]

Yes.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Are you trying to say by this that suicide attempts should be criminalized?

Suicide attempts should be punishable by death *nods*

[Ard al Islam]

Yes.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Are you trying to say by this that suicide attempts should be criminalized?

No. Go back and read my posts.

[The New California Republic]

This makes absolutely no sense.

Are you trying to say by this that suicide attempts should be criminalized?

No. Go back and read my posts.

The ones about the diamonds and gold etc?

[Ard al Islam]

No. Go back and read my posts.

The ones about the diamonds and gold etc? ;)

Are you referring to the posts that you claimed took several pages although they didn't take one? Eveb though I only mentioned gold in one post and diamonds in none?
No, not those posts.

[The New California Republic]

The ones about the diamonds and gold etc?

Are you referring to the posts that you claimed took several pages although they didn't take one? Eveb though I only mentioned gold in one post and diamonds in none?
No, not those posts.

The off topic shit, yes. And the discussion wasn't just on one page. And you mentioned precious stones, so don't split hairs. Naughty.

[Highever]

This makes absolutely no sense.

Are you trying to say by this that suicide attempts should be criminalized?

No. Go back and read my posts.

Then what exactly are you saying with this specific post in response to what Neanderthaland said?

[Elwher]

If we consider suicide as any action which will have the probable effect of ending the individual's life, then smoking must come under the same considerations as shooting oneself. Either action will kill the individual, the former is just a less efficient methodology.

Also, the next time a soldier throws himself on a grenade to save his squad, should he be considered a hero or as a mentally ill individual?

[United Civil Republic]

Suicide should not be allowed, for the same reason that assisted suicide is considered murder. That is exactly what it is.

So...what you are going to apply criminal penalties to those who attempt suicide and throw them in prison or something? Yeah that will for sure change their mindset and make them realize that they have so much to live for.

Actually, a good lawyer would be able to pull insanity and get him into a rehab/hospital.

[United Civil Republic]

Suicide should not be allowed, for the same reason that assisted suicide is considered murder. That is exactly what it is.

This makes about as much sense as charging a dominatrix with assault.

Is it really a crime if the "victim" wants it?

I would argue insanity and that the defendant would not be fit to make that decision.

[Purgatio]

So...what you are going to apply criminal penalties to those who attempt suicide and throw them in prison or something? Yeah that will for sure change their mindset and make them realize that they have so much to live for.

Actually, a good lawyer would be able to pull insanity and get him into a rehab/hospital.

Unless you live in a particularly unique legal jurisdiction, 'insanity' appears to be one of the most misunderstood legal defences by the layman in the whole of criminal law. Insanity doesn't cover anyone with does something because they have a mental disorder of some kind. It only applies, very strictly, to a tiny, narrow strip of cases where the mental disorder meant the perpetrator did not understand the nature or quality of the act, or was mentally-incapable of appreciating the act's criminality. For example, your schizophrenia meant that when you sliced the guy's neck you believed you were slicing bread. It's an extremely-exceptional defence that won't apply to the overwhelming-majority of crimes committed by a mentally-ill person.

[United Civil Republic]

Suicide should not be allowed, for the same reason that assisted suicide is considered murder. That is exactly what it is.

1) Whether or not assisted suicide is considered murder depends upon the country.

2) How can you murder yourself?

3) How are you gonna punish people who commit suicide? Throw their corpse in jail for the rest of their death?

1. Agreeable.
2. What is the definition of murder?
3. A good lawyer would call mental incapability and the defendant would serve a sentence in rehab/hospital.

[Neanderthaland]

This makes about as much sense as charging a dominatrix with assault.

Is it really a crime if the "victim" wants it?

I would argue insanity and that the defendant would not be fit to make that decision.

About BDSM or suicide?

Look, there are suicidal people whose issue stems from mental illness, but you can't just categorically say that everyone who is suicidal is mentally ill. There are plenty of medical conditions, for instance, that warrant wanting to end one's life before suffering becomes unbearable, or one's mental facilities collapse.

[United Civil Republic]

Actually, a good lawyer would be able to pull insanity and get him into a rehab/hospital.

Unless you live in a particularly unique legal jurisdiction, 'insanity' appears to be one of the most misunderstood legal defences by the layman in the whole of criminal law. Insanity doesn't cover anyone with does something because they have a mental disorder of some kind. It only applies, very strictly, to a tiny, narrow strip of cases where the mental disorder meant the perpetrator did not understand the nature or quality of the act, or was mentally-incapable of appreciating the act's criminality. For example, your schizophrenia meant that when you sliced the guy's neck you believed you were slicing bread. It's an extremely-exceptional defence that won't apply to the overwhelming-majority of crimes committed by a mentally-ill person.

Clinical Depression, a mental disorder, is known to cloud judgement and that those suffering from it can often have a hard time distinguishing between right and wrong.

According to an offical definition: Insanity defense. The insanity defense, also known as the mental disorder defense, is an affirmative defense by excuse in a criminal case, arguing that the defendant is not responsible for his or her actions due to an episodic or persistent psychiatric disease at the time of the criminal act.

Therefore, Clinical depression is an episodic psychiatric disease is known to cloud judgement and create a hard time distinguishing between right and wrong. Ofgfically making it a insanity case.

[Purgatio]

Unless you live in a particularly unique legal jurisdiction, 'insanity' appears to be one of the most misunderstood legal defences by the layman in the whole of criminal law. Insanity doesn't cover anyone with does something because they have a mental disorder of some kind. It only applies, very strictly, to a tiny, narrow strip of cases where the mental disorder meant the perpetrator did not understand the nature or quality of the act, or was mentally-incapable of appreciating the act's criminality. For example, your schizophrenia meant that when you sliced the guy's neck you believed you were slicing bread. It's an extremely-exceptional defence that won't apply to the overwhelming-majority of crimes committed by a mentally-ill person.

Clinical Depression, a mental disorder, is known to cloud judgement and that those suffering from it can often have a hard time distinguishing between right and wrong.

According to an offical definition: Insanity defense. The insanity defense, also known as the mental disorder defense, is an affirmative defense by excuse in a criminal case, arguing that the defendant is not responsible for his or her actions due to an episodic or persistent psychiatric disease at the time of the criminal act.

Therefore, Clinical depression is an episodic psychiatric disease is known to cloud judgement and create a hard time distinguishing between right and wrong. Ofgfically making it a insanity case.

That's not true at all, the mentally-ill person not knowing their behaviour is 'wrong' doesn't mean you believed your actions were morally or ethically justified, you have to be incompatent or incapable of appreciating the criminal or legally-prohibited character of your act, see the UK judgment of R v. Johnson

[N7eternia]

About BDSM or suicide?

Look, there are suicidal people whose issue stems from mental illness, but you can't just categorically say that everyone who is suicidal is mentally ill. There are plenty of medical conditions, for instance, that warrant wanting to end one's life before suffering becomes unbearable, or one's mental facilities collapse.

This is definitely one of the biggest misinformed perceptions that people could have about suicide. It's literally not just the mentally ill. I hope this stigma breaks sooner.

[United Civil Republic]

Clinical Depression, a mental disorder, is known to cloud judgement and that those suffering from it can often have a hard time distinguishing between right and wrong.

According to an offical definition: Insanity defense. The insanity defense, also known as the mental disorder defense, is an affirmative defense by excuse in a criminal case, arguing that the defendant is not responsible for his or her actions due to an episodic or persistent psychiatric disease at the time of the criminal act.

Therefore, Clinical depression is an episodic psychiatric disease is known to cloud judgement and create a hard time distinguishing between right and wrong. Ofgfically making it a insanity case.

That's not true at all, the mentally-ill person not knowing their behaviour is 'wrong' doesn't mean you believed your actions were morally or ethically justified, you have to be incompatent or incapable of appreciating the criminal or legally-prohibited character of your act, see the UK judgment of R v. Johnson

It is undecided but if you research the Supreme Court of the United States Kahler v. Kansas you will see that this idea is currentlky still disputed.

[United Civil Republic]

About BDSM or suicide?

Look, there are suicidal people whose issue stems from mental illness, but you can't just categorically say that everyone who is suicidal is mentally ill. There are plenty of medical conditions, for instance, that warrant wanting to end one's life before suffering becomes unbearable, or one's mental facilities collapse.

This is definitely one of the biggest misinformed perceptions that people could have about suicide. It's literally not just the mentally ill. I hope this stigma breaks sooner.

Other then extreme cases of bullying and depression. Please inform me cases in which suicides are routinely attempted. I would prefer to not hear exceptions to the rule.(Things that don't occur often.)

[Neanderthaland]

This is definitely one of the biggest misinformed perceptions that people could have about suicide. It's literally not just the mentally ill. I hope this stigma breaks sooner.

Other then extreme cases of bullying and depression. Please inform me cases in which suicides are routinely attempted. I would prefer to not hear exceptions to the rule.(Things that don't occur often.)

Cancer, Alzheimer's or Dementia diagnosis.