"My Body, My Choice!": Should it Extend to Suicide?

[The New California Republic]

I think assisted dying should be legalized.

[Purgatio]

Suicide, at the end of the day, is a personal choice people make over what should happen to their own body. We don't have centres out there telling people not to tattoo themselves or not to braid their hair, why is it any of the business of so-called 'suicide prevention' organisations or 'mental health' organisations to tell thinking, autonomous human beings, in the free exercise of their agency, to make a free, informed choice over what happens to their body? We should treat suicide as a personal choice, and not cast judgment on what another person chooses to do with their body through these discriminatory 'suicide prevention' NGOs

Yeah, but unlike tattoos or braiding your hair suicide is something you can't go back on or change your mind about after you do it. Along with that, it doesn't just affect you, but it affects everybody around you, with them having to go through grief and wondering why you decided that you didn't want to live anymore. Along with that, people who have committed suicide or have had a suicide attempt usually have unlaying problems or things going on in there life that can be treated with other ways than death.

I've pointed out before how ridiculous it is to argue that you cannot kill yourself because your family will be sad. This is an open-ended argument against any bodily autonomy or sovereignty. Simple example - if a homophobic family would feel sad if a family member has gay sex, would you also argue that that gay family member now has a moral obligation to never have gay sex simply because it would make his family sad? This is a twisted view that effectively subscribes to family ownership of their members' bodies and lives.

[Recidivism]

How on earth is self harming for no beneficial rational? This isn't like getting your ear pierced or getting a tattoo. This isn't like choosing which hairstyle this is the termination of someone's life.

This is not just irrational this is insane.

Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.

A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.

*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.

[Uiiop]

Bodily sovereignty sounds innately atheist.

Judging by the tone of OP "No state can judge me. Only god can." Can be argued to be usable here.

[Domina Nostra Nova Terra]

How on earth is self harming for no beneficial rational? This isn't like getting your ear pierced or getting a tattoo. This isn't like choosing which hairstyle this is the termination of someone's life.

This is not just irrational this is insane.

Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.

I can't believe you are not trolling.

So what we get rid of therapists etc because they are trying to prevent people from acting out their choices by treatment?

All innocent human life is precious and no one has a right to destroy it not even themselves.

Just because you cannot do somethings does not make you a slave.

This is an infantile view of what human freedom is.

[Recidivism]

Bodily sovereignty sounds innately atheist.

Not really.

[Fartsniffage]

Bodily sovereignty sounds innately atheist.

And why would you have a problem with people who don't believe in a god taking their own life?

[Domina Nostra Nova Terra]

Yeah, but unlike tattoos or braiding your hair suicide is something you can't go back on or change your mind about after you do it. Along with that, it doesn't just affect you, but it affects everybody around you, with them having to go through grief and wondering why you decided that you didn't want to live anymore. Along with that, people who have committed suicide or have had a suicide attempt usually have unlaying problems or things going on in there life that can be treated with other ways than death.

I've pointed out before how ridiculous it is to argue that you cannot kill yourself because your family will be sad. This is an open-ended argument against any bodily autonomy or sovereignty. Simple example - if a homophobic family would feel sad if a family member has gay sex, would you also argue that that gay family member now has a moral obligation to never have gay sex simply because it would make his family sad? This is a twisted view that effectively subscribes to family ownership of their members' bodies and lives.

There's a difference in the level of trauma that having your child kill themselves and finding out they're engaging in sodomy has on a person.

It can drive a person into the ground.

Have you never seen a parent have to deal with the horror of losing a child to suicide?

My point of suicide affecting people is to point out that no matter how much you yell about "mind your own business" your choices do affect others.

I'm going to stop arguing and pray for you.

[Purgatio]

Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.

A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.

*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.

The problem with the 9/11 fighters was they murdered others, not that they took their own lives.

[Uiiop]

A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.

*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.

The problem with the 9/11 fighters was they murdered others, not that they took their own lives.

The falling man was in on it!?!?!

[Purgatio]

I've pointed out before how ridiculous it is to argue that you cannot kill yourself because your family will be sad. This is an open-ended argument against any bodily autonomy or sovereignty. Simple example - if a homophobic family would feel sad if a family member has gay sex, would you also argue that that gay family member now has a moral obligation to never have gay sex simply because it would make his family sad? This is a twisted view that effectively subscribes to family ownership of their members' bodies and lives.

There's a difference in the level of trauma that having your child kill themselves and finding out they're engaging in sodomy has on a person.

It can drive a person into the ground.

Have you never seen a parent have to deal with the horror of losing a child to suicide?

So what? The child is not the property of his parent, if the child is an adult above the age of majority and mentally-competent in the eyes of the law to make informed choices over his body, that freedom should extend to the right to take his own life. The parent doesn't have a proprietary ownership over his or her child and no matter how traumatic the effect on the parent, the parent has no right to tell an adult child what to do with his own body.

[Recidivism]

A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.

*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.

The problem with the 9/11 fighters was they murdered others, not that they took their own lives.

Dude, what?

[Uiiop]

The problem with the 9/11 fighters was they murdered others, not that they took their own lives.

Dude, what?

He read jumpers as hijackers apparently.

[Purgatio]

Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.

A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.

*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.

The problem is people assume because a person is depressed or going through a life crisis, they are automatically not in the "best judgment", but being sad or depressed doesn't mean you aren't mentally-competent or lack moral agency.

[Geneviev]

Suicide is much worse for people around you than abortion or things like that. It's not a good choice to make either.

[Andsed]

Yes if someone has done everything to try and get better but they see no end to the pain then they should be allowed to end their life. Though yeah we definitely need to do more to make sure that as few people as possible get to that point.

[Al Mumtahanah]

Bodily sovereignty sounds innately atheist.

Judging by the tone of OP "No state can judge me. Only god can." Can be argued to be usable here.

That would require recognizing that God is sovereign, not yourself.

[Uiiop]

Judging by the tone of OP "No state can judge me. Only god can." Can be argued to be usable here.

That would require recognizing that God is sovereign, not yourself.

Yet god gave us free will. One can extend that to say god give us sovereignty over our bodies under his own sovereignty of us.

[Al Mumtahanah]

Bodily sovereignty sounds innately atheist.

And why would you have a problem with people who don't believe in a god taking their own life?

I have a problem with innately atheistic legal principles.

[Alpes a Septentrionali Imperium]

Yeah, but unlike tattoos or braiding your hair suicide is something you can't go back on or change your mind about after you do it. Along with that, it doesn't just affect you, but it affects everybody around you, with them having to go through grief and wondering why you decided that you didn't want to live anymore. Along with that, people who have committed suicide or have had a suicide attempt usually have unlaying problems or things going on in there life that can be treated with other ways than death.

I've pointed out before how ridiculous it is to argue that you cannot kill yourself because your family will be sad. This is an open-ended argument against any bodily autonomy or sovereignty. Simple example - if a homophobic family would feel sad if a family member has gay sex, would you also argue that that gay family member now has a moral obligation to never have gay sex simply because it would make his family sad? This is a twisted view that effectively subscribes to family ownership of their members' bodies and lives.

So you're justifying that suicide should be a bodily autonomy and that you shouldn't care if anyone is effect by it, by comparing it to homophobes learning that a relative's gay. That's like comparing apples to oranges because guess what. Sexuality and suicide are extremely different things and just because they have the same effect, it turns out the effect happens for very different reasons.

[The New California Republic]

I'm going to stop arguing and pray for you.

I have a real dislike for how passive-aggressive this phrase is.

[Geneviev]

That would require recognizing that God is sovereign, not yourself.

Yet god gave us free will. One can extend that to say god give us sovereignty over our bodies under his own sovereignty of us.

The Bible says that we are not our own and should honor God with our bodies.

[Purgatio]

I'm going to stop arguing and pray for you.

I have a real dislike for how passive-aggressive this phrase is.

Its basically a substitute for articulating an actual argument or response

[Al Mumtahanah]

That would require recognizing that God is sovereign, not yourself.

Yet god gave us free will. One can extend that to say god give us sovereignty over our bodies under his own sovereignty of us.

Free will, IF it exists, is not sovereignty, because you are still subordinate to God's authority.

[Cekoviu]

Yes, but I would support requiring the motivation to stay for a certain period of time, perhaps three months. I strongly support mental health initiatives to prevent it wherever possible, but it's an issue of bodily autonomy - I would consider denying the right to end your life to be a human rights violation.