NationStates

Fascist Soyouso wrote:

Purgatio wrote:
OP is literally arguing for bodily sovereignty and individual self-determination. Not exactly fascist or authoritarian.

Jokes on the both of you. I actually am a fascist OOC, I just don't support restricting freedoms for stupid reasons and don't give a shit about race. My most controversial opinion is that benevolent dictatorship is possible. I'm not a summer kid either. I've been an NSer for 6 years, just made a new main after a hiatus.

Well, this is a plot twist.

Geneviev wrote:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Then God isn’t omnipotent. Isn’t that contradictory with what the Bible says?

He is omnipotent.

Then it's REALLY God's fault.

Of course, if you are of sound mind when making the decision.

I've worked on a suicide hotline, I know the things people contemplating that are going through. It's truly painful not being able to get them help sometimes, but that's often what needs to be done.

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:

Geneviev wrote:He is omnipotent.

But he can’t know what the devil is going to do. That’s something he can’t do.

He does know what the devil is going to do.

Geneviev wrote:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:But he can’t know what the devil is going to do. That’s something he can’t do.

He does know what the devil is going to do.

Can we take God out of a discussion about such a deeply personal topic? Whatever god it is you believe in doesn't affect what's going on in someones mind when they're contemplating suicide.

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:

Al Mumtahanah wrote:You're talking about a neurological or psychological definition of morality, I am talking about the Islamic definition.

Is there any scientific basis to the Islamic definition? Islam in general seems pretty lame-brained when it comes to science.

Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.

Fuck yes. And other people do not have the right to prevent you from acting out on it any more than they've a right to prevent you from getting an abortion.

Kernen wrote:Fuck yes. And other people do not have the right to prevent you from acting out on it any more than they've a right to prevent you from getting an abortion.

You just had to spoil it at the end.

Godular wrote:

Geneviev wrote:No, it's because people brought sin into the world.

If it's possible, then it was part of the plan.

Because nothing happens without God willing it, according to the doctrine.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Kernen wrote:Fuck yes. And other people do not have the right to prevent you from acting out on it any more than they've a right to prevent you from getting an abortion.

You just had to spoil it at the end.

Not really. It's consistent.

The New California Republic wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:You just had to spoil it at the end.

Not really. It's consistent.

Not really, there's another life at play with an abortion. You're not choosing to kill yourself, you're choosing to kill your child.

I don’t think suicide should be illegal (how would that even be enforced), but there should definitely be a lot more put into preventing suicide. Suicide should only ever be a last resort if there is no other way, but suicide definitely shouldn’t happen just because someone is sad.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:Not really. It's consistent.

Not really, there's another life at play with an abortion. You're not choosing to kill yourself, you're choosing to kill your child.

Your... non-living child?

Al Mumtahanah wrote:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Is there any scientific basis to the Islamic definition? Islam in general seems pretty lame-brained when it comes to science.

Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.

The God Hypothesis is a statement about reality. It could hypothetically be investigated with the right instruments.

Pacomia wrote:I don’t think suicide should be illegal (how would that even be enforced), but there should definitely be a lot more put into preventing suicide. Suicide should only ever be a last resort if there is no other way, but suicide definitely shouldn’t happen just because someone is sad.

It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:

Al Mumtahanah wrote:Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.

The God Hypothesis is a statement about reality. It could hypothetically be investigated with the right instruments.

Yes I suppose so. Not directly but angels could hypothetically.

I think people should be able to choose to kill themselves (so long as they do not involve other people, like stepping in front of a train). That being said, I also think we need to improve psychiatric help so that people who are suicidal have another option that is easily accessible to them.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

The New California Republic wrote:Not really. It's consistent.

Not really, there's another life at play with an abortion. You're not choosing to kill yourself, you're choosing to kill your child.

The fetus isn't a child. And it is consistent since they are both an exercise of bodily sovereignty.

If, as I do, one believes strongly in personal sovereignty then I can see no consistent way to draw the line at suicide. To someone else it may seem like an irrational choice, or one against the person's self interest, but if the individual does not believe it to be so than that should be his or her right.

Is there a difference between allowing an individual to shoot himself and allowing him to smoke cigarettes? Both are outwardly against the person's best interests, both will have an excellent chance of shortening the lifespan; the only difference to me is how soon they will be likely to take effect.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:

Pacomia wrote:I don’t think suicide should be illegal (how would that even be enforced), but there should definitely be a lot more put into preventing suicide. Suicide should only ever be a last resort if there is no other way, but suicide definitely shouldn’t happen just because someone is sad.

It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?

I can. I knew a person who contemplated suicide for no reason other than that they were feeling sad. True, there's a possibility that they were joking (pretty bad joke, in that case), but it's still a thing. And yeah, most people who are suicidal aren't just sad, but occasionally, some are.

Generally, suicide in all cases should be heavily discouraged, but people should have the right to commit suicide, as long as, as Neutraligon said, they don't harm any other people in the process.

Really only in the event in which someone would die if not supported by some sort of system, or are in poor health anyways. Other than that, it should never be accepted, but there isn't much you can do about it as far as legal stuff goes

Pacomia wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?

I can. I knew a person who contemplated suicide for no reason other than that they were feeling sad. True, there's a possibility that they were joking (pretty bad joke, in that case), but it's still a thing. And yeah, most people who are suicidal aren't just sad, but occasionally, some are.

Nobody who attempts or goes through with it is 'just sad.' I know, I tried 3 times in my younger years.

Pacomia wrote:

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?

I can. I knew a person who contemplated suicide for no reason other than that they were feeling sad. True, there's a possibility that they were joking (pretty bad joke, in that case), but it's still a thing. And yeah, most people who are suicidal aren't just sad, but occasionally, some are.

I can because I have been in a situation where I seriously contemplated it. I decided to keep on and see if things got better, which they did, but I believe that suicide might have been a rational response had things gone further to shit.

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:

Al Mumtahanah wrote:Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.

The God Hypothesis is a statement about reality. It could hypothetically be investigated with the right instruments.

Not instruments or means of reaching conclusion based in the physical world.

Fascist Soyouso wrote:

Purgatio wrote:
OP is literally arguing for bodily sovereignty and individual self-determination. Not exactly fascist or authoritarian.

Jokes on the both of you. I actually am a fascist OOC, I just don't support restricting freedoms for stupid reasons and don't give a shit about race. My most controversial opinion is that benevolent dictatorship is possible. I'm not a summer kid either. I've been an NSer for 6 years, just made a new main after a hiatus.

You don't know what fascism even is. I think you are under the idea that dictatorship = Fascism, or that corporatism = fascism, when neither are true.