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"My Body, My Choice!": Should it Extend to Suicide?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should people have the right to end their own life?

Yes. The motivation is nobody else's business.
69
18%
Yes, and mental health services and awareness need to be improved to prevent suicide.
149
38%
Only under certain circumstances/for certain reasons. (Explain?)
28
7%
Only after some sort of evaluation. (Explain?)
24
6%
No. Mental health services and awareness needs to be improved to prevent suicide.
76
19%
No, period.
42
11%
Other. (Explain?)
6
2%
 
Total votes : 394

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Alpes a Septentrionali Imperium
Envoy
 
Posts: 265
Founded: Jan 20, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Alpes a Septentrionali Imperium » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:53 pm

Fascist Soyouso wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
OP is literally arguing for bodily sovereignty and individual self-determination. Not exactly fascist or authoritarian.

Jokes on the both of you. I actually am a fascist OOC, I just don't support restricting freedoms for stupid reasons and don't give a shit about race. My most controversial opinion is that benevolent dictatorship is possible. I'm not a summer kid either. I've been an NSer for 6 years, just made a new main after a hiatus.



Well, this is a plot twist.
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Godular
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Posts: 11065
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:53 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Then God isn’t omnipotent. Isn’t that contradictory with what the Bible says?

He is omnipotent.


Then it's REALLY God's fault.
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:54 pm

Of course, if you are of sound mind when making the decision.

I've worked on a suicide hotline, I know the things people contemplating that are going through. It's truly painful not being able to get them help sometimes, but that's often what needs to be done.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Geneviev
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Posts: 14155
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Geneviev » Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:59 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Geneviev wrote:He is omnipotent.

But he can’t know what the devil is going to do. That’s something he can’t do.

He does know what the devil is going to do.
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:02 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:But he can’t know what the devil is going to do. That’s something he can’t do.

He does know what the devil is going to do.

Can we take God out of a discussion about such a deeply personal topic? Whatever god it is you believe in doesn't affect what's going on in someones mind when they're contemplating suicide.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Al Mumtahanah
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1709
Founded: Jun 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Al Mumtahanah » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:05 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:You're talking about a neurological or psychological definition of morality, I am talking about the Islamic definition.

Is there any scientific basis to the Islamic definition? Islam in general seems pretty lame-brained when it comes to science.

Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.
Ifreann wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:How about if I don't wanna learn about Islam I shouldn't have to?

Makes about as much sense as letting kids decide that if they don't wanna eat then they shouldn't have to.

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Kernen
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6388
Founded: Mar 02, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:07 pm

Fuck yes. And other people do not have the right to prevent you from acting out on it any more than they've a right to prevent you from getting an abortion.
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:14 pm

Kernen wrote:Fuck yes. And other people do not have the right to prevent you from acting out on it any more than they've a right to prevent you from getting an abortion.

You just had to spoil it at the end.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Hurdergaryp
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35592
Founded: Jul 10, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby Hurdergaryp » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:14 pm

Godular wrote:
Geneviev wrote:No, it's because people brought sin into the world.

If it's possible, then it was part of the plan.

Because nothing happens without God willing it, according to the doctrine.


“Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent.”
Mao Zedong

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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28729
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:15 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Kernen wrote:Fuck yes. And other people do not have the right to prevent you from acting out on it any more than they've a right to prevent you from getting an abortion.

You just had to spoil it at the end.

Not really. It's consistent.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:16 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:You just had to spoil it at the end.

Not really. It's consistent.

Not really, there's another life at play with an abortion. You're not choosing to kill yourself, you're choosing to kill your child.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4811
Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:18 pm

I don’t think suicide should be illegal (how would that even be enforced), but there should definitely be a lot more put into preventing suicide. Suicide should only ever be a last resort if there is no other way, but suicide definitely shouldn’t happen just because someone is sad.
Last edited by Pacomia on Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Progressive capitalism gang

GLORY TO CASCADIA, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
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Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4811
Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:19 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Not really. It's consistent.

Not really, there's another life at play with an abortion. You're not choosing to kill yourself, you're choosing to kill your child.

Your... non-living child?
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Progressive capitalism gang

GLORY TO CASCADIA, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
This user is a male.

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Jean-Paul Sartre
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Posts: 1684
Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:20 pm

Al Mumtahanah wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:Is there any scientific basis to the Islamic definition? Islam in general seems pretty lame-brained when it comes to science.

Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.

The God Hypothesis is a statement about reality. It could hypothetically be investigated with the right instruments.
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
-Heraclitus of Ephesus

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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:22 pm

Pacomia wrote:I don’t think suicide should be illegal (how would that even be enforced), but there should definitely be a lot more put into preventing suicide. Suicide should only ever be a last resort if there is no other way, but suicide definitely shouldn’t happen just because someone is sad.

It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Al Mumtahanah
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1709
Founded: Jun 21, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Al Mumtahanah » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:23 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.

The God Hypothesis is a statement about reality. It could hypothetically be investigated with the right instruments.

Yes I suppose so. Not directly but angels could hypothetically.
Ifreann wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:How about if I don't wanna learn about Islam I shouldn't have to?

Makes about as much sense as letting kids decide that if they don't wanna eat then they shouldn't have to.

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Neutraligon
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 34813
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:25 pm

I think people should be able to choose to kill themselves (so long as they do not involve other people, like stepping in front of a train). That being said, I also think we need to improve psychiatric help so that people who are suicidal have another option that is easily accessible to them.
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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28729
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:25 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Not really. It's consistent.

Not really, there's another life at play with an abortion. You're not choosing to kill yourself, you're choosing to kill your child.

The fetus isn't a child. And it is consistent since they are both an exercise of bodily sovereignty.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Elwher
Senator
 
Posts: 4503
Founded: May 24, 2012
Corporate Bordello

Postby Elwher » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:32 pm

If, as I do, one believes strongly in personal sovereignty then I can see no consistent way to draw the line at suicide. To someone else it may seem like an irrational choice, or one against the person's self interest, but if the individual does not believe it to be so than that should be his or her right.

Is there a difference between allowing an individual to shoot himself and allowing him to smoke cigarettes? Both are outwardly against the person's best interests, both will have an excellent chance of shortening the lifespan; the only difference to me is how soon they will be likely to take effect.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

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Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4811
Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:35 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Pacomia wrote:I don’t think suicide should be illegal (how would that even be enforced), but there should definitely be a lot more put into preventing suicide. Suicide should only ever be a last resort if there is no other way, but suicide definitely shouldn’t happen just because someone is sad.

It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?

I can. I knew a person who contemplated suicide for no reason other than that they were feeling sad. True, there's a possibility that they were joking (pretty bad joke, in that case), but it's still a thing. And yeah, most people who are suicidal aren't just sad, but occasionally, some are.

Generally, suicide in all cases should be heavily discouraged, but people should have the right to commit suicide, as long as, as Neutraligon said, they don't harm any other people in the process.
Last edited by Pacomia on Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Progressive capitalism gang

GLORY TO CASCADIA, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
This user is a male.

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Hatterleigh
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Posts: 1145
Founded: Sep 07, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hatterleigh » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:35 pm

Really only in the event in which someone would die if not supported by some sort of system, or are in poor health anyways. Other than that, it should never be accepted, but there isn't much you can do about it as far as legal stuff goes
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Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18660
Founded: May 09, 2014
Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:36 pm

Pacomia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?

I can. I knew a person who contemplated suicide for no reason other than that they were feeling sad. True, there's a possibility that they were joking (pretty bad joke, in that case), but it's still a thing. And yeah, most people who are suicidal aren't just sad, but occasionally, some are.

Nobody who attempts or goes through with it is 'just sad.' I know, I tried 3 times in my younger years.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Elwher
Senator
 
Posts: 4503
Founded: May 24, 2012
Corporate Bordello

Postby Elwher » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:36 pm

Pacomia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:It doesn't happen 'just because someone is sad.' Can you even imagine the thought process that occurs prior to suicide?

I can. I knew a person who contemplated suicide for no reason other than that they were feeling sad. True, there's a possibility that they were joking (pretty bad joke, in that case), but it's still a thing. And yeah, most people who are suicidal aren't just sad, but occasionally, some are.


I can because I have been in a situation where I seriously contemplated it. I decided to keep on and see if things got better, which they did, but I believe that suicide might have been a rational response had things gone further to shit.
CYNIC, n. A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scythians of plucking out a cynic's eyes to improve his vision.
Ambrose Bierce

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Hatterleigh
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Sep 07, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hatterleigh » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:37 pm

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Science can't define a philosophical concept, or it can but not through scientific method. It's like scientific method defining being.

The God Hypothesis is a statement about reality. It could hypothetically be investigated with the right instruments.

Not instruments or means of reaching conclusion based in the physical world.
✦ ✦ ✦ The Free Domain of Hatterleigh ✦ ✦ ✦
National News Network: Hatterlese Ligue A kicks off, Football / Soccer fans prepare for the season
Overview of Hatterleigh | William Botrum, Hatterleigh's President | Hatterlese Embassy Program | I don't use NS stats.
MATH IS REAL

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Hatterleigh
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1145
Founded: Sep 07, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hatterleigh » Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:37 pm

Fascist Soyouso wrote:
Purgatio wrote:
OP is literally arguing for bodily sovereignty and individual self-determination. Not exactly fascist or authoritarian.

Jokes on the both of you. I actually am a fascist OOC, I just don't support restricting freedoms for stupid reasons and don't give a shit about race. My most controversial opinion is that benevolent dictatorship is possible. I'm not a summer kid either. I've been an NSer for 6 years, just made a new main after a hiatus.

You don't know what fascism even is. I think you are under the idea that dictatorship = Fascism, or that corporatism = fascism, when neither are true.
Last edited by Hatterleigh on Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
✦ ✦ ✦ The Free Domain of Hatterleigh ✦ ✦ ✦
National News Network: Hatterlese Ligue A kicks off, Football / Soccer fans prepare for the season
Overview of Hatterleigh | William Botrum, Hatterleigh's President | Hatterlese Embassy Program | I don't use NS stats.
MATH IS REAL

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