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by The New California Republic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:26 pm
by Purgatio » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:26 pm
Alpes a Septentrionali imperium wrote:Purgatio wrote:Suicide, at the end of the day, is a personal choice people make over what should happen to their own body. We don't have centres out there telling people not to tattoo themselves or not to braid their hair, why is it any of the business of so-called 'suicide prevention' organisations or 'mental health' organisations to tell thinking, autonomous human beings, in the free exercise of their agency, to make a free, informed choice over what happens to their body? We should treat suicide as a personal choice, and not cast judgment on what another person chooses to do with their body through these discriminatory 'suicide prevention' NGOs
Yeah, but unlike tattoos or braiding your hair suicide is something you can't go back on or change your mind about after you do it. Along with that, it doesn't just affect you, but it affects everybody around you, with them having to go through grief and wondering why you decided that you didn't want to live anymore. Along with that, people who have committed suicide or have had a suicide attempt usually have unlaying problems or things going on in there life that can be treated with other ways than death.
by Recidivism » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:27 pm
Purgatio wrote:Domina Nostra Nova Terra wrote:How on earth is self harming for no beneficial rational? This isn't like getting your ear pierced or getting a tattoo. This isn't like choosing which hairstyle this is the termination of someone's life.
This is not just irrational this is insane.
Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.
by Domina Nostra Nova Terra » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:28 pm
Purgatio wrote:Domina Nostra Nova Terra wrote:How on earth is self harming for no beneficial rational? This isn't like getting your ear pierced or getting a tattoo. This isn't like choosing which hairstyle this is the termination of someone's life.
This is not just irrational this is insane.
Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.
by Recidivism » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:28 pm
by Fartsniffage » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:28 pm
Al Mumtahanah wrote:Bodily sovereignty sounds innately atheist.
by Domina Nostra Nova Terra » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:29 pm
Purgatio wrote:Alpes a Septentrionali imperium wrote:
Yeah, but unlike tattoos or braiding your hair suicide is something you can't go back on or change your mind about after you do it. Along with that, it doesn't just affect you, but it affects everybody around you, with them having to go through grief and wondering why you decided that you didn't want to live anymore. Along with that, people who have committed suicide or have had a suicide attempt usually have unlaying problems or things going on in there life that can be treated with other ways than death.
I've pointed out before how ridiculous it is to argue that you cannot kill yourself because your family will be sad. This is an open-ended argument against any bodily autonomy or sovereignty. Simple example - if a homophobic family would feel sad if a family member has gay sex, would you also argue that that gay family member now has a moral obligation to never have gay sex simply because it would make his family sad? This is a twisted view that effectively subscribes to family ownership of their members' bodies and lives.
by Purgatio » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:29 pm
Recidivism wrote:Purgatio wrote:
Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.
A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.
*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.
by Uiiop » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:30 pm
Purgatio wrote:Recidivism wrote:
A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.
*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.
The problem with the 9/11 fighters was they murdered others, not that they took their own lives.
by Purgatio » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:31 pm
Domina Nostra Nova Terra wrote:Purgatio wrote:
I've pointed out before how ridiculous it is to argue that you cannot kill yourself because your family will be sad. This is an open-ended argument against any bodily autonomy or sovereignty. Simple example - if a homophobic family would feel sad if a family member has gay sex, would you also argue that that gay family member now has a moral obligation to never have gay sex simply because it would make his family sad? This is a twisted view that effectively subscribes to family ownership of their members' bodies and lives.
There's a difference in the level of trauma that having your child kill themselves and finding out they're engaging in sodomy has on a person.
It can drive a person into the ground.
Have you never seen a parent have to deal with the horror of losing a child to suicide?
by Recidivism » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:31 pm
Purgatio wrote:Recidivism wrote:
A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.
*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.
The problem with the 9/11 fighters was they murdered others, not that they took their own lives.
by Purgatio » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:32 pm
Recidivism wrote:Purgatio wrote:
Rational in the sense that an autonomous, thinking person is weighing up the pros and cons and deciding what is, in his best judgment, the best decision to make over his own body. If a person decides, after that process, that life is not worth living, who are you to tell him otherwise? Let people do their own thing. If you believe life is so goddamn precious no amount of human suffering justifies ending it, fine, apply that philosophy to your own life and your own body, don't try and force it onto others through discriminatory and insulting 'suicide prevention' organisations trying to lecture free, thinking human beings on how to live their own lives.
A suicidal person is (almost always) not capable of exercising their "best judgement." The idea that one's life problems are worse than death is (almost always) always an irrational calculation.
*To reiterate, I do support the right of rational and informed people to kill themselves. For example, the 9/11 jumpers would have the right to kill themselves.
by Geneviev » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:34 pm
by Andsed » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:34 pm
by Al Mumtahanah » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:35 pm
by Al Mumtahanah » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:38 pm
by Alpes a Septentrionali Imperium » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:38 pm
Purgatio wrote:Alpes a Septentrionali imperium wrote:
Yeah, but unlike tattoos or braiding your hair suicide is something you can't go back on or change your mind about after you do it. Along with that, it doesn't just affect you, but it affects everybody around you, with them having to go through grief and wondering why you decided that you didn't want to live anymore. Along with that, people who have committed suicide or have had a suicide attempt usually have unlaying problems or things going on in there life that can be treated with other ways than death.
I've pointed out before how ridiculous it is to argue that you cannot kill yourself because your family will be sad. This is an open-ended argument against any bodily autonomy or sovereignty. Simple example - if a homophobic family would feel sad if a family member has gay sex, would you also argue that that gay family member now has a moral obligation to never have gay sex simply because it would make his family sad? This is a twisted view that effectively subscribes to family ownership of their members' bodies and lives.
by The New California Republic » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:38 pm
Domina Nostra Nova Terra wrote:I'm going to stop arguing and pray for you.
by Purgatio » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:40 pm
by Al Mumtahanah » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:41 pm
by Cekoviu » Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:41 pm
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