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Should the Electoral College be abolished?

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Should the Electoral College be abolished?

Yes
221
60%
No (please explain)
148
40%
 
Total votes : 369

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33518
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:32 am

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Trump is hardly a paragon of virtue and contemplation.

Yes, but he reflects the Republican party in general. 2012 a majority are in favor of amending the constitution, 2016 that is no longer the case. Gallup. Democrats already supported the change, and there support just increased.


Positive changes aren't a bad thing though. People used to have all kinds of beliefs that have since improved, the vast majority of Americans thought gays shouldn't marry a little over a decade ago.
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Otira
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Posts: 342
Founded: Jun 25, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Otira » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:33 am

Why no (please explain) for yes?

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Confederate Norway
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Posts: 109
Founded: Feb 15, 2019
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Confederate Norway » Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:55 pm

Duvniask wrote:
Confederate Norway wrote:No, it is our unique way of voting and I like it.

Unique in how much of an overcomplicated, antiquated piece of shit it is, perhaps.

I looked into the whole Electoral College thing and it makes no sense. Why is a voting system set up as some kind of game? It is really unnecessary and I now understand why liberals hate it.

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Dangine
Envoy
 
Posts: 265
Founded: Nov 02, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Dangine » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:01 pm

Otira wrote:Why no (please explain) for yes?

Because we all know why people who want the Electoral College to be abolished want it abolished, but we don't hear that much from people who don't want it abolished and there reasoning.
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Jabberwocky
Envoy
 
Posts: 228
Founded: Nov 02, 2017
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Jabberwocky » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:04 pm

The electoral college system was fine for the Pony Express era. It's outmoded now.
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Greed and Death
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Posts: 52336
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:34 pm

No. As intended and discussed in the letters between the founding fathers the states different voting standards meaning a popular vote would skew results to states with loser turnout laws resulting in a race to the bottom of voters.
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Vassenor
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Posts: 52826
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:47 pm

Greed and Death wrote:No. As intended and discussed in the letters between the founding fathers the states different voting standards meaning a popular vote would skew results to states with loser turnout laws resulting in a race to the bottom of voters.


So basically universal suffrage is bad because some random guys two and a half centuries ago were afraid of the idea of black people, poor people and women voting?
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Spirit of Hope
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9739
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:49 pm

Greed and Death wrote:No. As intended and discussed in the letters between the founding fathers the states different voting standards meaning a popular vote would skew results to states with loser turnout laws resulting in a race to the bottom of voters.

Congratulations, we now have near universal suffrage. Gone are the days of racial discrimination in voting, sexual discrimination in voting, or monetary discrimination in voting. About the only place where you see voting rights being restricted is for criminals, and those with restricted voting do not make up a huge percentage of the population. I see very little for the states to race to the bottom of.

Meanwhile the electoral college does mean that the Republican votes for president in California mean nothing, just as the Democrat votes in Texas mean nothing.

At the time the electoral college made sense, but we have had over 200 years of development, socially and technologically. I think we can update how we choose our president, after all we did it for senators with out causing the demise of our democracy.
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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33518
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:53 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:No. As intended and discussed in the letters between the founding fathers the states different voting standards meaning a popular vote would skew results to states with loser turnout laws resulting in a race to the bottom of voters.


So basically universal suffrage is bad because some random guys two and a half centuries ago were afraid of the idea of black people, poor people and women voting?


And it's good because some random guys two and a half minutes ago were afraid that their party might lose sometimes and they won't get to shit on the other half of America unchecked.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
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-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
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-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
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ANTI:
-Racism
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-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
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"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24011
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:53 pm

Telconi wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So basically universal suffrage is bad because some random guys two and a half centuries ago were afraid of the idea of black people, poor people and women voting?


And it's good because some random guys two and a half minutes ago were afraid that their party might lose sometimes and they won't get to shit on the other half of America unchecked.

Interesting how opposition to the EC predates that.
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Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33518
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:56 pm

Kowani wrote:
Telconi wrote:
And it's good because some random guys two and a half minutes ago were afraid that their party might lose sometimes and they won't get to shit on the other half of America unchecked.

Interesting how opposition to the EC predates that.


Not really.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13413
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Corporate Bordello

Postby Vetalia » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:56 pm

I think it shouldn't be abolished but should be reformed; many if not all of the thinly populated states are disproportionately important to the US because of their natural resources/economic activity/strategic location so I believe it is important to provide them with protection against being totally overruled by sheer numbers.

Perhaps a good compromise would be to assign a minimum number of votes per state that are winner-take-all, with the excess votes based on population allocated by the results of the popular vote? That would balance the concerns of less populated areas against the effective disenfranchisement of large numbers of votes in more populous solid blue/red states.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

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User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24011
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:58 pm

Vetalia wrote:I think it shouldn't be abolished but should be reformed; many if not all of the thinly populated states are disproportionately important to the US because of their natural resources/economic activity/strategic location so I believe it is important to provide them with protection against being totally overruled by sheer numbers.

Perhaps a good compromise would be to assign a minimum number of votes per state that are winner-take-all, with the excess votes based on population allocated by the results of the popular vote? That would balance the concerns of less populated areas against the effective disenfranchisement of large numbers of votes in more populous solid blue/red states.

“Strategic location” Like what, Kansas?
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Spirit of Hope
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9739
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Spirit of Hope » Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:59 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:Interesting how opposition to the EC predates that.


Not really.

I mean I just linked you to a poll that shows from 2002 to 2016 the majority of Americans were for changing the constitution. It only changed when President Trump won the presidency but lost the popular vote, at which point Republicans all decided it was great because it let them "shit on the other half of America unchecked."
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User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33518
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:00 pm

Kowani wrote:
Vetalia wrote:I think it shouldn't be abolished but should be reformed; many if not all of the thinly populated states are disproportionately important to the US because of their natural resources/economic activity/strategic location so I believe it is important to provide them with protection against being totally overruled by sheer numbers.

Perhaps a good compromise would be to assign a minimum number of votes per state that are winner-take-all, with the excess votes based on population allocated by the results of the popular vote? That would balance the concerns of less populated areas against the effective disenfranchisement of large numbers of votes in more populous solid blue/red states.

“Strategic location” Like what, Kansas?


Kansas is important, it's the source of over 75%of the nation's boredom.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4811
Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:00 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Not really.

I mean I just linked you to a poll that shows from 2002 to 2016 the majority of Americans were for changing the constitution. It only changed when President Trump won the presidency but lost the popular vote, at which point Republicans all decided it was great because it let them "shit on the other half of America unchecked."

Sounds about right.
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User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33518
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:01 pm

Spirit of Hope wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Not really.

I mean I just linked you to a poll that shows from 2002 to 2016 the majority of Americans were for changing the constitution. It only changed when President Trump won the presidency but lost the popular vote, at which point Republicans all decided it was great because it let them "shit on the other half of America unchecked."


Yes, I saw that, thanks for checking.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4811
Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:01 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kowani wrote:“Strategic location” Like what, Kansas?


Kansas is important, it's the source of over 75%of the nation's boredom.

I feel like you’re forgetting about Delaware.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Progressive capitalism gang

GLORY TO CASCADIA, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
This user is a male.

User avatar
Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13413
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Corporate Bordello

Postby Vetalia » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:10 pm

Kowani wrote:
Vetalia wrote:I think it shouldn't be abolished but should be reformed; many if not all of the thinly populated states are disproportionately important to the US because of their natural resources/economic activity/strategic location so I believe it is important to provide them with protection against being totally overruled by sheer numbers.

Perhaps a good compromise would be to assign a minimum number of votes per state that are winner-take-all, with the excess votes based on population allocated by the results of the popular vote? That would balance the concerns of less populated areas against the effective disenfranchisement of large numbers of votes in more populous solid blue/red states.

“Strategic location” Like what, Kansas?


Alaska and Hawaii come to mind.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

Proud enemy of the state according to Nancy Pelosi
TRUMP 2020

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24011
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:16 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Kowani wrote:“Strategic location” Like what, Kansas?


Alaska and Hawaii come to mind.

You said many. 2 is not many.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13413
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Corporate Bordello

Postby Vetalia » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:27 pm

Kowani wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
Alaska and Hawaii come to mind.

You said many. 2 is not many.


I said they were strategically, resource-based or economically important. Not all of them are strategically important, others are economically important, e.g. North Dakota and Colorado for their oil production, Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas for agriculture, Delaware for economic importance.
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

Proud enemy of the state according to Nancy Pelosi
TRUMP 2020

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24011
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:32 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Kowani wrote:You said many. 2 is not many.


I said they were strategically, resource-based or economically important. Not all of them are strategically important, others are economically important, e.g. North Dakota and Colorado for their oil production, Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas for agriculture, Delaware for economic importance.

Delaware? Citation needed.
Spanish -AmericanAtheist.
“The time has come to call evil out as evil, and we shall not apologize for naming brutality.”
NSG's resident data enthusiast.
Eppur si muove.


Telconi wrote:Every once in a while Kowani does have a decent point.

User avatar
Vetalia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13413
Founded: Mar 23, 2005
Corporate Bordello

Postby Vetalia » Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:39 pm

Kowani wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
I said they were strategically, resource-based or economically important. Not all of them are strategically important, others are economically important, e.g. North Dakota and Colorado for their oil production, Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas for agriculture, Delaware for economic importance.

Delaware? Citation needed.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaware_ ... ration_Law
"This was no nuclear war," Eddie said. "This...this..." His thin, horrified voice sounded like that of a child.
"NOPE," Blaine agreed. "IT WAS A LOT WORSE THAN THAT, AND IT'S NOT OVER YET."

Proud enemy of the state according to Nancy Pelosi
TRUMP 2020

User avatar
The Lone Alliance
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7352
Founded: May 25, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Lone Alliance » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:02 pm

Kowani wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
I said they were strategically, resource-based or economically important. Not all of them are strategically important, others are economically important, e.g. North Dakota and Colorado for their oil production, Iowa, Nebraska and Kansas for agriculture, Delaware for economic importance.

Delaware? Citation needed.

Delaware is considered a Tax haven therefore it has a lot of corporate headquarters based there.
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The Black Forrest
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41376
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Black Forrest » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:23 pm

Pacomia wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Kansas is important, it's the source of over 75%of the nation's boredom.

I feel like you’re forgetting about Delaware.


Pfft. Those states don't even have a song. Private Idaho
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