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Aozora Blu Sky
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Posts: 39
Founded: Jul 16, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Aozora Blu Sky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:09 am

Pacomia wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:It's a shame that the texts didn't survive.

To be fair, though, was he really an atheist, or just a skeptic?
Or a Jew?

My guess is he was someone who was introduced to Christianity, saw what he perceived to be flaws in the doctrine and tried to create a new Gnostic Christian sect based on select texts from the New Testament and his interpretations of it. This practice was common at the time and wasn't cracked down on until the 5th century CE. I should point out that this is how Christianity started as well. A group of people, probably Romans, decided to create a new, updated version of Judaism that was more compliant with their personal, and likely political, views. At the moment we can't push the date of any of the books in the New Testament any farther back than the 50's CE. At the time the Jews were threatening to revolt and finally did in 63CE leading the Romans to invade and ultimately burn down the temple of Jerusalem in 70CE. Is it really so far fetched to think that a group of Roman officials tried to pacify the Jews by attempting to convert them to a religion that puts blame on the Jewish community for the death of its savior and shows Rome in a somewhat positive light? All speculation on my part, I admit.

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Founded: Sep 24, 2018
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Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:36 am

A beautiful world without theocracy long live the secular world long live the freedom of religion
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:37 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A beautiful world without theocracy long live the secular world long live the freedom of religion

Secular Vatican is an oxymoron.
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Pacomia
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Founded: May 23, 2019
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Postby Pacomia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:41 am

Kowani wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A beautiful world without theocracy long live the secular world long live the freedom of religion

Secular Vatican is an oxymoron.

A secular Vatican would just join Italy. Religion is the only reason they exist, anyway. Not sure why San Marino's still around, though.
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Highever
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Founded: Dec 21, 2014
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Postby Highever » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:55 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A beautiful world without theocracy long live the secular world long live the freedom of religion

What exactly is the point of a Secular Vatican state existing?
ΦΣK
⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

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Kowani
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Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:56 am

Pacomia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Secular Vatican is an oxymoron.

A secular Vatican would just join Italy. Religion is the only reason they exist, anyway. Not sure why San Marino's still around, though.

‘Cause they’re an old Republic?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

Servant of The Democracy since 1896.


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Nakena
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Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:58 am

The original Papal State got crushed in 1871 by italian troops as soon as Napoleon III withdrew his garrison.
Last edited by Nakena on Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:58 am

Highever wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A beautiful world without theocracy long live the secular world long live the freedom of religion

What exactly is the point of a Secular Vatican state existing?

Perhaps just for the tourism? They could rake in the cash by basing their economy around tourism. Not as much as they currently make mind you, and it's debatable whether anyone would want to visit if the religious connotations are removed from the place.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Founded: Sep 24, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:58 am

Highever wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:A beautiful world without theocracy long live the secular world long live the freedom of religion

What exactly is the point of a Secular Vatican state existing?
The sacredness of the land,not religion ''Vatican Secular Nationalism''
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jean-Paul Sartre
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Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jean-Paul Sartre » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:59 am

As most people probably know by now, I’m an anti-theist. I don’t like faith because it’s dishonesty masquerading as sincerity.
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
-Heraclitus of Ephesus

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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
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Founded: Sep 24, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:01 am

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:As most people probably know by now, I’m an anti-theist. I don’t like faith because it’s dishonesty masquerading as sincerity.
The beautiful side of the secular state is the freedom of religion.
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Highever
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Founded: Dec 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Highever » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:03 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Highever wrote:What exactly is the point of a Secular Vatican state existing?
The sacredness of the land,not religion ''Vatican Secular Nationalism''

Vatican Secular nationalism is absolutely not a real thing. The only reason the Vatican exist is because of religion, without it the few acres it occupies would just go back to being a part of Rome. You realize that the "population" is pretty much entirely clergy or diplomatic employees and the Vatican is not some theocracy that imposes religious law on thousands or millions of people within it, right?
ΦΣK
⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

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Iciaros
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 439
Founded: Sep 30, 2014
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Iciaros » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:06 am

Kowani wrote:
Pacomia wrote:A secular Vatican would just join Italy. Religion is the only reason they exist, anyway. Not sure why San Marino's still around, though.

‘Cause they’re an old Republic?


I wanted to make a 'Knights of the Old Republic' joke, but I did a little searching and I can't confirm that they actually have knights. Just a Swiss Guard.
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Welcome to the spoiler! ^.^ You are a great person and you should love yourself!
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Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum
Minister
 
Posts: 3046
Founded: Sep 24, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:06 am

Highever wrote:
Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:The sacredness of the land,not religion ''Vatican Secular Nationalism''

Vatican Secular nationalism is absolutely not a real thing. The only reason the Vatican exist is because of religion, without it the few acres it occupies would just go back to being a part of Rome. You realize that the "population" is pretty much entirely clergy or diplomatic employees and the Vatican is not some theocracy that imposes religious law on thousands or millions of people within it, right?
Yeah, I just said my own opinion If I was the Vatican, I'd think so I live in Turkey ^^
Last edited by Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum on Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44957
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:09 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Highever wrote:What exactly is the point of a Secular Vatican state existing?
The sacredness of the land,not religion ''Vatican Secular Nationalism''

…And what makes the land sacred besides religion?
American History and Historiography; Political and Labour History, Urbanism, Political Parties, Congressional Procedure, Elections.

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Pacomia
Senator
 
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Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:10 am

Secular flag contest?

Take flags with some religious symbolism or influence in them and alter them to make it secular.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Progressive capitalism gang

GLORY TO CASCADIA, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
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Highever
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Posts: 1914
Founded: Dec 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Highever » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:10 am

Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum wrote:
Highever wrote:Vatican Secular nationalism is absolutely not a real thing. The only reason the Vatican exist is because of religion, without it the few acres it occupies would just go back to being a part of Rome. You realize that the "population" is pretty much entirely clergy or diplomatic employees and the Vatican is not some theocracy that imposes religious law on thousands or millions of people within it, right?
Yeah, I just said my own opinion If I was the Vatican, I'd think so I live in Turkey ^^

Like I said no one actually lives in the Vatican as a citizen like other countries. They are all just employees of the Church. There's no Vatican nationality or anything like that.
ΦΣK
⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

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Highever
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Posts: 1914
Founded: Dec 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Highever » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:11 am

Pacomia wrote:Secular flag contest?

Take flags with some religious symbolism or influence in them and alter them to make it secular.

I mean in most cases they would just be plain colors as all you need to do is remove the symbol.
ΦΣK
⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

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Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4811
Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:12 am

Highever wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Secular flag contest?

Take flags with some religious symbolism or influence in them and alter them to make it secular.

I mean in most cases they would just be plain colors as all you need to do is remove the symbol.

But that's boring. I mean, make it just as cool, but get rid of the religious stuff. Be creative. I'm sure there are some examples on r/vexillology.

Here's one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/co ... di_arabia/
Last edited by Pacomia on Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Progressive capitalism gang

GLORY TO CASCADIA, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
This user is a male.

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Iciaros
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 439
Founded: Sep 30, 2014
Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Iciaros » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:17 am

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:As most people probably know by now, I’m an anti-theist. I don’t like faith because it’s dishonesty masquerading as sincerity.


I find myself essentially in agreement. In my opinion, all faiths lie, not because the truths they believe in are provably wrong, but because they assert that their tenets are truth even though they cannot be proven, and despite the existence of competing and equally unproven worldviews, tenets, 'truths', etc.
Iciaros' Q&A: Ask whatever you want!

New Imperial Order of Iciaros
Sovereign | Heir | Chief Ambassador | Grand Admiral | Grand General
High Fantasy, Absolute Monarchy. PMT/FT on this scale. Current Year: 726 AA.
NationStates stats and policies are non-canon. Refer to factbooks for accurate information.
Welcome to the spoiler! ^.^ You are a great person and you should love yourself!
I go by Icia or Ici, pronoun she. I'm a hopeful writer and hopeless law student. Also, I'm afraid of basically everything.
I can't make everyone be nice to each other, but I can at least try to be nice myself.
Does my nation reflect my beliefs? Well, it's complicated.

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Highever
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1914
Founded: Dec 21, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Highever » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:18 am

Pacomia wrote:
Highever wrote:I mean in most cases they would just be plain colors as all you need to do is remove the symbol.

But that's boring. I mean, make it just as cool, but get rid of the religious stuff. Be creative. I'm sure there are some examples on r/vexillology.

Here's one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/co ... di_arabia/

They bring up a good point on there though, it shouldn't be green anymore either if it is to be secular.
ΦΣK
⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

User avatar
Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4811
Founded: May 23, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Pacomia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:21 am

Highever wrote:
Pacomia wrote:But that's boring. I mean, make it just as cool, but get rid of the religious stuff. Be creative. I'm sure there are some examples on r/vexillology.

Here's one:
https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/co ... di_arabia/

They bring up a good point on there though, it shouldn't be green anymore either if it is to be secular.

Still, just an example.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Progressive capitalism gang

GLORY TO CASCADIA, NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
This user is a male.

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Aozora Blu Sky
Secretary
 
Posts: 39
Founded: Jul 16, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Aozora Blu Sky » Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:31 am

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:As most people probably know by now, I’m an anti-theist. I don’t like faith because it’s dishonesty masquerading as sincerity.

Well put.

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Confederate Norway
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 119
Founded: Feb 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Confederate Norway » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:24 am

Aozora Blu Sky wrote:
Confederate Norway wrote:I never herd about that story. I do believe you because sadly that does seem like a thing God would do.

2 Kings 2:23-25;
23 Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number. 25 And he went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

Thanks for the quote.
Nakena wrote:
Confederate Norway wrote:It saddens me that Christians will defend God for doing horrible things like killing firstborns.


Well then there is that.

Seems kind of complex, however I find it a lot better than modern Christianity. Thank you for sharing this with me.

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Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:41 am

Confederate Norway wrote:Seems kind of complex, however I find it a lot better than modern Christianity. Thank you for sharing this with me.


You're most welcome. Theres a number of similar concepts, basically the idea is that they reject the Old Testament or the God thereof. Gnosticism might also be relevant to this.

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