ICE detains US citizen for a month

[Scomagia]

Abolish ICE. Abolish CBP.

Abolish memes! Abolish shitposts!

[Kowani]

Still not sure where I fall on reform/abolish, but ICE could make a better case for themselves if they stopped acting like the villains in a dog movie. Just saying.

The only case where mustache twirling is acceptable…

[New haven america]

Of course this assumes ICE and the like have not been politicized to hell, taken over by plain bigots, and made an arm of a regime deliberately inculcating terror against nonwhites who happen to live along the border... or are caught being nonwhite by an immigration officer.

This sounds like catastrophizing.

Yeah, tell that to the legal asylum seekers in the camps. Or the US citizens they've held and detained. Or the naturalized US immigrants that have been detained by them. Or the US citizen children of immigrants who were born in those camps, but have been taken away from their parents and tossed into the foster system so much that a lot of them can't even walk or speak when they should be able to.

Wait wait wait, no need to reply, I can guess your response already: "Stop with the partisan memes!!11!"

[Scomagia]

This sounds like catastrophizing.

Yeah, tell that to the people in the camps. Or the US citizens they've held and detained. Or the naturalized US immigrants that have been detained by them. Or the US citizen children of immigrants who were born in those camps, but have been taken away from their parents and tossed into the foster system so much that a lot of them can't even walk or speak when they should be able to.

Wait wait wait, no need to reply, I can guess your response already: "Stop with the partisan memes!!11!"

Yes. I understand there's a lot of misery involved. That still doesn't make the scenario I was responding to any less ridiculous. But I guess nothing can be nuanced, can it? A situation can't be bad and in need of reform, it has to be literally the worst possible thing ever or not a problem at all.

[New haven america]

Yeah, tell that to the people in the camps. Or the US citizens they've held and detained. Or the naturalized US immigrants that have been detained by them. Or the US citizen children of immigrants who were born in those camps, but have been taken away from their parents and tossed into the foster system so much that a lot of them can't even walk or speak when they should be able to.

Wait wait wait, no need to reply, I can guess your response already: "Stop with the partisan memes!!11!"

Yes. I understand there's a lot of misery involved. That still doesn't make the scenario I was responding to any less ridiculous. But I guess nothing can be nuanced, can it? A situation can't be bad and in need of reform, it has to be literally the worst possible thing ever or not a problem at all.

Or, people like you are just trying to downplay the fact that the US has concentration camps and is in the middle of a human rights abuse not seen in the Western World since the Cold War.

"Guys, it's not that bad, we're just abusing and degrading people who're trying to escape crime and violence, and creating a group of US citizens who'll never be able to walk or talk. You're making too big a deal out of this, all we need is some reforms here and there and everything will be fine~"

[Scomagia]

Yes. I understand there's a lot of misery involved. That still doesn't make the scenario I was responding to any less ridiculous. But I guess nothing can be nuanced, can it? A situation can't be bad and in need of reform, it has to be literally the worst possible thing ever or not a problem at all.

Or, people like you are just trying to downplay the fact that the US has concentration camps and is in the middle of a human rights abuse not seen in the Western World since the Cold War.

"Guys, it's not that bad, where just abusing and degrading people trying to escape crime and violence, and creating a group of US citizens who'll never be able to walk or talk. You're making too big a deal out of this, all we need is some reforms here and there and everything will be fine~"

There is absolutely no way to talk to you about this if you're going to screech and be unreasonable. You clearly just want to rant and have no interest in an actual conversation about what needs to be done to improve the situation.

[New haven america]

Or, people like you are just trying to downplay the fact that the US has concentration camps and is in the middle of a human rights abuse not seen in the Western World since the Cold War.

"Guys, it's not that bad, where just abusing and degrading people trying to escape crime and violence, and creating a group of US citizens who'll never be able to walk or talk. You're making too big a deal out of this, all we need is some reforms here and there and everything will be fine~"

There is absolutely no way to talk to you about this if you're going to screech and be unreasonable. You clearly just want to rant and have no interest in an actual conversation about what needs to be done to improve the situation.

Yes, how dare I be unreasonable and call out the US' human rights abuses for what they are. Truly I'm the problem here.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

How did ICE get to abolish the entire innocent until proven guilty and reasonable bail?

[Scomagia]

How did ICE get to abolish the entire innocent until proven guilty and reasonable bail?

They didn't. They're getting sued and they will lose.

[Rossiyaana]

How did ICE get to abolish the entire innocent until proven guilty and reasonable bail?

They didn't. They're getting sued and they will lose.

They’ll get sued, loose, and then continue their messed up practices until the next time it makes headlines, in a few weeks. Under the current administration and Congress, nothing meaningful is gonna happen with ICE.

[New haven america]

How did ICE get to abolish the entire innocent until proven guilty and reasonable bail?

They didn't. They're getting sued and they will lose.

And you seriously believe that's gonna stop them?

[Scomagia]

They didn't. They're getting sued and they will lose.

They’ll get sued, loose, and then continue their messed up practices until the next time it makes headlines, in a few weeks. Under the current administration and Congress, nothing meaningful is gonna happen with ICE.

That depends on what the courts find. The lawsuit could very well result in further investigation into practices, followed by further consequences based on the findings.

I swear, you people act like democratic republics have never gotten up to funny business before and been subsequently bitch-slapped by their own internal systems. Processes exist for addressing problems in the republic. They've been used before to good effect.

Or you can go on believing this is a major catastrophe that has no remedy without some rash and radical behavior like abolishing ICE or whatever happens to be the meme of the day. Whichever you prefer.

[Rossiyaana]

They’ll get sued, loose, and then continue their messed up practices until the next time it makes headlines, in a few weeks. Under the current administration and Congress, nothing meaningful is gonna happen with ICE.

That depends on what the courts find. The lawsuit could very well result in further investigation into practices, followed by further consequences based on the findings.

I swear, you people act like democratic republics have never gotten up to funny business before and been subsequently bitch-slapped by their own internal systems. Processes exist for addressing problems in the republic. They've been used before to good effect.

Or you can go on believing this is a major catastrophe that has no remedy without some rash and radical behavior like abolishing ICE or whatever happens to be the meme of the day. Whichever you prefer.

I’m merely pointing out that ICE has gotten in trouble before, and continued to do the stuff they got in trouble for. Sure, there’s a system set up for dealing with problems within the government, but the leaders of the government who oversee that process and have final say over everything that goes on aren’t going to do anything. As they’ve demonstrated in the past.

I’d much rather see reform in ICE than have it abolished, but the reforms would need to be heavy.

[New haven america]

They’ll get sued, loose, and then continue their messed up practices until the next time it makes headlines, in a few weeks. Under the current administration and Congress, nothing meaningful is gonna happen with ICE.

1.That depends on what the courts find. The lawsuit could very well result in further investigation into practices, followed by further consequences based on the findings.

2. I swear, you people act like democratic republics have never gotten up to funny business before and been subsequently bitch-slapped by their own internal systems. Processes exist for addressing problems in the republic. They've been used before to good effect.

3. Or you can go on believing this is a major catastrophe that has no remedy without some rash and radical behavior like abolishing ICE or whatever happens to be the meme of the day. Whichever you prefer.

1. Meanwhile, they'll just keep trucking along and doing what they do
2. You act as if this will have a happy ending before things fall into chaos. There's no guarantee that things will turn out ok, nor is there a guarantee that things will go to hell, but I personally prefer taking as many actions as possible to avoid the latter.
3. We get it, you don't think locking up asylum seekers, naturalized citizens, legal immigrants, and US citizens, in concentration camps as well as sending their kids away into the foster system leaving them being unable to speak or walk is a big deal.

[Scomagia]

1.That depends on what the courts find. The lawsuit could very well result in further investigation into practices, followed by further consequences based on the findings.

2. I swear, you people act like democratic republics have never gotten up to funny business before and been subsequently bitch-slapped by their own internal systems. Processes exist for addressing problems in the republic. They've been used before to good effect.

3. Or you can go on believing this is a major catastrophe that has no remedy without some rash and radical behavior like abolishing ICE or whatever happens to be the meme of the day. Whichever you prefer.

1. Meanwhile, they'll just keep trucking along and doing what they do
2. You act as if this will have a happy ending before things fall into chaos. There's no guarantee that things will turn out ok, nor is there a guarantee that things will go to hell, but I personally prefer taking as many actions as possible to avoid the latter.
3. We get it, you don't think locking up asylum seekers, naturalized citizens, legal immigrants, and US citizens, as well as sending their kids away into the foster system leaving them being unable to speak or walk is a big deal.

You know, you've been very fucking rude about assuming my motivations. I've never said any of the things you're assuming I believe. Fuck off with that noise. I haven't assumed your motivations and I certainly haven't assumed the worst faith reasons for your position. I'm trying to have a conversation. You're just trying to vomit talking points and smear anyone you perceive as not being on your "side". I don't have the time or patience to bother addressing you if this is how you're going to carry on.

[Scomagia]

That depends on what the courts find. The lawsuit could very well result in further investigation into practices, followed by further consequences based on the findings.

I swear, you people act like democratic republics have never gotten up to funny business before and been subsequently bitch-slapped by their own internal systems. Processes exist for addressing problems in the republic. They've been used before to good effect.

Or you can go on believing this is a major catastrophe that has no remedy without some rash and radical behavior like abolishing ICE or whatever happens to be the meme of the day. Whichever you prefer.

I’m merely pointing out that ICE has gotten in trouble before, and continued to do the stuff they got in trouble for. Sure, there’s a system set up for dealing with problems within the government, but the leaders of the government who oversee that process and have final say over everything that goes on aren’t going to do anything. As they’ve demonstrated in the past.

I’d much rather see reform in ICE than have it abolished, but the reforms would need to be heavy.

Oh sure, I get it. I doubt they'll be able to slide much longer. The public pressure is high and there's good reason to believe there's dirty goings on. Something as simple as a lawsuit may be sufficient to get investigations going, investigations that may trigger much needed reforms. It may not happen that way, of course, but it's entirely possible.

[New haven america]

1. Meanwhile, they'll just keep trucking along and doing what they do
2. You act as if this will have a happy ending before things fall into chaos. There's no guarantee that things will turn out ok, nor is there a guarantee that things will go to hell, but I personally prefer taking as many actions as possible to avoid the latter.
3. We get it, you don't think locking up asylum seekers, naturalized citizens, legal immigrants, and US citizens, as well as sending their kids away into the foster system leaving them being unable to speak or walk is a big deal.

You know, you've been very fucking rude about assuming my motivations. I've never said any of the things you're assuming I believe. Fuck off with that noise. I haven't assumed your motivations and I certainly haven't assumed the worst faith reasons for your position. I'm trying to have a conversation. You're just trying to vomit talking points and smear anyone you perceive as not being on your "side". I don't have the time or patience to bother addressing you if this is how you're going to carry on.

"Do as I say, not as I do!"

You've spent basically the entire thread saying that people who have a problem with this or those actually view it as a human rights abuse are just shitposting or trying to start partisan drama. If you want people to have a respectful conversation with you, you need to put in the effort to do it as well. You're not, and you're getting the reaction to the rude behavior you've been putting out. If I wasn't so lazy I'd put a shocked Pikachu face here.

Ok, let's see if you can do this calmly: What reforms do you think would stop ICE's policy of detaining people in concentration camps? What would you do?

[Rossiyaana]

1. Meanwhile, they'll just keep trucking along and doing what they do
2. You act as if this will have a happy ending before things fall into chaos. There's no guarantee that things will turn out ok, nor is there a guarantee that things will go to hell, but I personally prefer taking as many actions as possible to avoid the latter.
3. We get it, you don't think locking up asylum seekers, naturalized citizens, legal immigrants, and US citizens, as well as sending their kids away into the foster system leaving them being unable to speak or walk is a big deal.

You know, you've been very fucking rude about assuming my motivations. I've never said any of the things you're assuming I believe. Fuck off with that noise. I haven't assumed your motivations and I certainly haven't assumed the worst faith reasons for your position. I'm trying to have a conversation. You're just trying to vomit talking points and smear anyone you perceive as not being on your "side". I don't have the time or patience to bother addressing you if this is how you're going to carry on.

Fair Point, but thats exactly what you did here:

Or you can go on believing this is a major catastrophe that has no remedy without some rash and radical behavior like abolishing ICE or whatever happens to be the meme of the day. Whichever you prefer.

[Scomagia]

You know, you've been very fucking rude about assuming my motivations. I've never said any of the things you're assuming I believe. Fuck off with that noise. I haven't assumed your motivations and I certainly haven't assumed the worst faith reasons for your position. I'm trying to have a conversation. You're just trying to vomit talking points and smear anyone you perceive as not being on your "side". I don't have the time or patience to bother addressing you if this is how you're going to carry on.

Fair Point, but thats exactly what you did here:

Or you can go on believing this is a major catastrophe that has no remedy without some rash and radical behavior like abolishing ICE or whatever happens to be the meme of the day. Whichever you prefer.

That was a response to the behavior. I'm not assuming motivation, I'm addressing the behavior. I didn't say why the were catastrophizing because I don't know why. But they were doing it because the situation is not, in fact, the fucking grim dark picture that was painted.

If I'd said, "you only care about migrants because they'll vote Democrat" or some such horshit, that'd be on the same level as saying that I don't care what happens to migrants. Except I didn't do anything of the kind because I'm not a tool.

[Duhon]

Of course this assumes ICE and the like have not been politicized to hell, taken over by plain bigots, and made an arm of a regime deliberately inculcating terror against nonwhites who happen to live along the border... or are caught being nonwhite by an immigration officer.

This sounds like catastrophizing.

Trump is a catastrophe unprecedented in American history, yes.

[New haven america]

Fair Point, but thats exactly what you did here:

That was a response to the behavior. I'm not assuming motivation, I'm addressing the behavior. I didn't say why the were catastrophizing because I don't know why. But they were doing it because the situation is not, in fact, the fucking grim dark picture that was painted.

Except it is.

For example, ICE is forcibly taking children away from their parents and tossing them around in the foster system so much that they can't speak or walk. They're also detaining American citizens with immigrant parents (Like the subject of this thread) and naturalized immigrants and sending them into concentration camps. They're also sending legal asylum seeker into concentration camps, and using children as bait in order to catch their parents.

[Novus America]

This sounds like catastrophizing.

Trump is a catastrophe unprecedented in American history, yes.

Not really. I disagree with him on a lot of things, but he is not the worst president we have had. Certainly not the best either.

[Scomagia]

You know, you've been very fucking rude about assuming my motivations. I've never said any of the things you're assuming I believe. Fuck off with that noise. I haven't assumed your motivations and I certainly haven't assumed the worst faith reasons for your position. I'm trying to have a conversation. You're just trying to vomit talking points and smear anyone you perceive as not being on your "side". I don't have the time or patience to bother addressing you if this is how you're going to carry on.

"Do as I say, not as I do!"

You've spent basically the entire thread saying that people who have a problem with this or those actually view it as a human rights abuse are just shitposting or trying to start partisan drama. If you want people to have a respectful conversation with you, you need to put in the effort to do it as well. You're not, and you're getting the reaction to the rude behavior you've been putting out. If I wasn't so lazy I'd put a shocked Pikachu face here.

Ok, let's see if you can do this calmly: What reforms do you think would stop ICE's policy of detaining people in concentration camps? What would you do?

Sorry dude, you missed your chance to have a reasonable conversation when you assumed I don't care about people suffering. I'll have this conversation gladly with anyone who cares to have it but not you.

[Duhon]

Or, people like you are just trying to downplay the fact that the US has concentration camps and is in the middle of a human rights abuse not seen in the Western World since the Cold War.

"Guys, it's not that bad, where just abusing and degrading people trying to escape crime and violence, and creating a group of US citizens who'll never be able to walk or talk. You're making too big a deal out of this, all we need is some reforms here and there and everything will be fine~"

There is absolutely no way to talk to you about this if you're going to screech and be unreasonable. You clearly just want to rant and have no interest in an actual conversation about what needs to be done to improve the situation.

Your assumption is that anything connected to the Trump administration is going to bind itself to and follow laws and precedents established well before its inception. To me and it seems to NHA as well as a few others, nothing could be more absurd.

[New haven america]

"Do as I say, not as I do!"

You've spent basically the entire thread saying that people who have a problem with this or those actually view it as a human rights abuse are just shitposting or trying to start partisan drama. If you want people to have a respectful conversation with you, you need to put in the effort to do it as well. You're not, and you're getting the reaction to the rude behavior you've been putting out. If I wasn't so lazy I'd put a shocked Pikachu face here.

Ok, let's see if you can do this calmly: What reforms do you think would stop ICE's policy of detaining people in concentration camps? What would you do?

Sorry dude, you missed your chance to have a reasonable conversation when you assumed I don't care about people suffering. I'll have this conversation gladly with anyone who cares to have it but not you.

This is just proving my point. If you want respect, you need to be respectful. You ain't doing that shit but you're expecting everyone else to bow to you. Class act my man.

Avoidance behavior ain't gonna work either. You've spent the entire thread saying that we need to reform them, but have given no examples on how to do so. Do you have any idea on how they'd do that, or no?