Biphobia in the LGBT community

[Highever]

[citation needed]

Ok. I'm trying to research and find real evidences. All what I can quote for now are these (outdated) sources:

How the Mafia Once Controlled the New York Gay Scene

LGBT PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDSFACE CHALLENGES TO REBUILDING THEIR LIVES

Homosexual Serial Killers

How the hell do three disparate articles that range from the Mob exploiting gay bars to sexuality of serial killers somehow point to an LGBT mafia?

[Ayissor]

Ok. I'm trying to research and find real evidences. All what I can quote for now are these (outdated) sources:

How the Mafia Once Controlled the New York Gay Scene

LGBT PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL RECORDSFACE CHALLENGES TO REBUILDING THEIR LIVES

Homosexual Serial Killers

None of that proves there is a gay mafia, just that some criminals happen to be homosexual. Try again.

This has to be the most ridiculous way to make homosexuals look bad I've seen so far.

Some homosexuals do crime, therefore, all of them are bad.
No holes in that what so ever.

[Lanoraie II]

Bisexual implies almost equal attraction to both sexes. The terms heteroflexible and homoflexibile are used to refer to people that lean more one way.

Not really, no. Bisexual is a spectrum that refers to attraction to one's own and other genders. Most bisexual people still have preferences, but that doesn't make them any less bisexual. I'm considerably more attracted to women and nonbinary people than I am to men, but I'm still very comfortable within the bisexual label.

Homoflexible and heteroflexible are fine terms for people who feel more aligned to homosexuality or heterosexuality than they do the term bisexuality, but having a preference in itself in no way invalidates one's bisexuality.

The only biphobia I've experienced is from (trans/otherkin/"xirple"s) people claiming some sort of -ist for being attracted to males and females and not trans people.

If you are referring to the claim that "bi means two and therefore excludes nonbinary people", then that is an unfortunate confusion over the term. The term bisexuality certainly did used to primarily refer to attraction to "both men and women", but has since evolved to generally refer to attraction to one's own and other genders, which may include nonbinary identities.

If however you are saying that you personally are attracted to men and women but not trans people, then that is a transphobic statement, because trans men are men and trans women are women.

It's not transphobic. I am not attracted to people who have fake penises and vaginas. I don't believe trans people are the gender they say they are either in the sense that they're on the same level or should be treated as such, although I'll respect their pronouns if only to avoid an argument. I also don't owe you an explanation for who I am/am not attracted to and do not owe trans people a chance for love.

Would you be less mad if I said I am attracted to cis men and cis women and not trans men and trans women?

[Mettaton-EX]

Not really, no. Bisexual is a spectrum that refers to attraction to one's own and other genders. Most bisexual people still have preferences, but that doesn't make them any less bisexual. I'm considerably more attracted to women and nonbinary people than I am to men, but I'm still very comfortable within the bisexual label.

Homoflexible and heteroflexible are fine terms for people who feel more aligned to homosexuality or heterosexuality than they do the term bisexuality, but having a preference in itself in no way invalidates one's bisexuality.
If you are referring to the claim that "bi means two and therefore excludes nonbinary people", then that is an unfortunate confusion over the term. The term bisexuality certainly did used to primarily refer to attraction to "both men and women", but has since evolved to generally refer to attraction to one's own and other genders, which may include nonbinary identities.

If however you are saying that you personally are attracted to men and women but not trans people, then that is a transphobic statement, because trans men are men and trans women are women.

It's not transphobic. I am not attracted to people who have fake penises and vaginas. I don't believe trans people are the gender they say they are either in the sense that they're on the same level or should be treated as such, although I'll respect their pronouns if only to avoid an argument. I also don't owe you an explanation for who I am/am not attracted to and do not owe trans people a chance for love.

Would you be less mad if I said I am attracted to cis men and cis women and not trans men and trans women?

> don't believe trans people are the gender they say they are
> not transphobic

[New Lindale]

So I am not defending those bigoted individuals, and they are not in the right to hate bisexuals, however, I would like to ensure that just because this claim is being used, that we are ignoring a fact. According to TeenHealth, for some, the definition provided of 'those who are romantically and physically attracted to members of both sexes' may experience as follows during adolescence:
"Being interested in someone of the same sex does not necessarily mean that a person is gay — just as being interested in someone of the opposite sex doesn't mean a person is straight. It's common for teens to be attracted to or have sexual thoughts about people of the same sex and the opposite sex. It's one way of sorting through emerging sexual feelings."
So, again I am not advocating the discrimination, but those at a young age experience bisexuality and in certain cases they end up going a different way in the future.
This is an issue in politics in general today, where we when bigots use a point that might necessarily be discriminatory or even justify their bigotry, but we ignore them. By looking up your opposition's argument, you benefit either way by; having a better understanding of your opposition and use counterpoints, understand the concerns and possibly points you agree with of your opposition, or finding a fallacy or somewhere that their claims are false.
Again, this is not the defence of those hating bisexuals, but we must also acknowledge facts.
Source: https://kidshealth.org/en/teens/sexual-orientation.html

[Threlizdun]

Not really, no. Bisexual is a spectrum that refers to attraction to one's own and other genders. Most bisexual people still have preferences, but that doesn't make them any less bisexual. I'm considerably more attracted to women and nonbinary people than I am to men, but I'm still very comfortable within the bisexual label.

Homoflexible and heteroflexible are fine terms for people who feel more aligned to homosexuality or heterosexuality than they do the term bisexuality, but having a preference in itself in no way invalidates one's bisexuality.
If you are referring to the claim that "bi means two and therefore excludes nonbinary people", then that is an unfortunate confusion over the term. The term bisexuality certainly did used to primarily refer to attraction to "both men and women", but has since evolved to generally refer to attraction to one's own and other genders, which may include nonbinary identities.

If however you are saying that you personally are attracted to men and women but not trans people, then that is a transphobic statement, because trans men are men and trans women are women.

It's not transphobic. I am not attracted to people who have fake penises and vaginas. I don't believe trans people are the gender they say they are either in the sense that they're on the same level or should be treated as such, although I'll respect their pronouns if only to avoid an argument. I also don't owe you an explanation for who I am/am not attracted to and do not owe trans people a chance for love.

Would you be less mad if I said I am attracted to cis men and cis women and not trans men and trans women?

Rejecting the gender identity of trans people and treating them as their assigned gender at birth is textbook transphobia. People aren't being biphobic when they call you out on that; it's just a factual assessment of your beliefs. Bi people can certainly still be transphobic. And no, I am not demanding you date trans people, since trans people deserve partners that respect their identities. What I am asking you to do is to consider that trans people know more about their gender than you do, that sexologists, psychologists, and biologists who recognize the validity of trans identities know what they are talking about, and that your preferences may be influenced by transphobic biases rather than science or innate biology.

[Ors Might]

Bisexual implies almost equal attraction to both sexes. The terms heteroflexible and homoflexibile are used to refer to people that lean more one way.

Not really, no. Bisexual is a spectrum that refers to attraction to one's own and other genders. Most bisexual people still have preferences, but that doesn't make them any less bisexual. I'm considerably more attracted to women and nonbinary people than I am to men, but I'm still very comfortable within the bisexual label.

Homoflexible and heteroflexible are fine terms for people who feel more aligned to homosexuality or heterosexuality than they do the term bisexuality, but having a preference in itself in no way invalidates one's bisexuality.

The only biphobia I've experienced is from (trans/otherkin/"xirple"s) people claiming some sort of -ist for being attracted to males and females and not trans people.

If you are referring to the claim that "bi means two and therefore excludes nonbinary people", then that is an unfortunate confusion over the term. The term bisexuality certainly did used to primarily refer to attraction to "both men and women", but has since evolved to generally refer to attraction to one's own and other genders, which may include nonbinary identities.

If however you are saying that you personally are attracted to men and women but not trans people, then that is a transphobic statement, because trans men are men and trans women are women.

I disagree that not being attracted to transpeople is necessarily transphobic. The argument that it is inherently relies upon the notion that one is attracted to gender, rather than biological sex. For some, the former holds true. But to dismiss the possibility of the latter seems ignorant to me. If someone views their sexuality as an attraction to biological sex, then it would not be transphobic for them to not experience attraction to a transperson on the grounds that they, biologically, are not the sex that the person in question is attracted to.

[Threlizdun]

Not really, no. Bisexual is a spectrum that refers to attraction to one's own and other genders. Most bisexual people still have preferences, but that doesn't make them any less bisexual. I'm considerably more attracted to women and nonbinary people than I am to men, but I'm still very comfortable within the bisexual label.

Homoflexible and heteroflexible are fine terms for people who feel more aligned to homosexuality or heterosexuality than they do the term bisexuality, but having a preference in itself in no way invalidates one's bisexuality.
If you are referring to the claim that "bi means two and therefore excludes nonbinary people", then that is an unfortunate confusion over the term. The term bisexuality certainly did used to primarily refer to attraction to "both men and women", but has since evolved to generally refer to attraction to one's own and other genders, which may include nonbinary identities.

If however you are saying that you personally are attracted to men and women but not trans people, then that is a transphobic statement, because trans men are men and trans women are women.

I disagree that not being attracted to transpeople is necessarily transphobic. The argument that it is inherently relies upon the notion that one is attracted to gender, rather than biological sex. For some, the former holds true. But to dismiss the possibility of the latter seems ignorant to me. If someone views their sexuality as an attraction to biological sex, then it would not be transphobic for them to not experience attraction to a transperson on the grounds that they, biologically, are not the sex that the person in question is attracted to.

Except no one is attracted to a person's chromosomes, but to a persons phenotype or primary and secondary sex characteristics. There is no single trans body type. There are trans people who transition and those who don't, and how they transition can vary. Attracted to women but have issues with penises? Good news, many trans women don't have penises, and those that do who have undergone HRT have penises that differ considerably from those of cis-men.

As much as cis people like to believe they can always "clock" a trans person, they really can't. Chances are you have seen pictures of a trans person before you found attractive, and if you were attracted to them before you knew they were trans, and that suddenly changes when you realize they are, then it isn't an issue of aesthetic preferences, but of transphobic prejudice.

[Nagatar Karumuttu Chettiar]

Surprise, surprise, LGBT people are people. In other news, water is wet!

EDIT: Also, 5% of humans are completely straight, 5% are completely gay, about 5% (or was it 3%?) are asexual, and the rest belong on the bisexual continuum in between.

That is so inaccurate. According to statistics 97.4% of men are straight, and identify as such.

You are disrespecting peoples orientation, and you cannot deny the facts. What pseudo science are you using?

[N7eternia]

So what do you think about this bigotry that exists in the LGBT community and what can be done to solve it? Here is my answer. I think that LGBT organizations should distribute more information on bisexuality (at least as much as they do on homosexuality), and bisexuals should do more to become a more prominent force in the LGBT rights movement. If those two things are done then biphobia rates will quickly go down in both the LGBT community and the straight community.

I think that the bigotry with biphobia is rare in my experience. I always know that bigotry exists in all forms and the LGBT is no exception to that. I honestly don't know what could be done to solve it (biphobia.) I can only think of reminding the community how it was like in the past where we had to shelter everything and keep things hidden. Is this what our equality now, currently means to us? That the gays look at bisexuals as something less? That they're allowed to be bigoted against their own communities? We're supposed to 'better' than what our stereotypes are, but I just don't know.

[Ors Might]

I disagree that not being attracted to transpeople is necessarily transphobic. The argument that it is inherently relies upon the notion that one is attracted to gender, rather than biological sex. For some, the former holds true. But to dismiss the possibility of the latter seems ignorant to me. If someone views their sexuality as an attraction to biological sex, then it would not be transphobic for them to not experience attraction to a transperson on the grounds that they, biologically, are not the sex that the person in question is attracted to.

Except no one is attracted to a person's chromosomes, but to a persons phenotype or primary and secondary sex characteristics. There is no single trans body type. There are trans people who transition and those who don't, and how they transition can vary. Attracted to women but have issues with penises? Good news, many trans women don't have penises, and those that do who have undergone HRT have penises that differ considerably from those of cis-men.

As much as cis people like to believe they can always "clock" a trans person, they really can't. Chances are you have seen pictures of a trans person before you found attractive, and if you were attracted to them before you knew they were trans, and that suddenly changes when you realize they are, then it isn't an issue of aesthetic preferences, but of transphobic prejudice.

Who are you to dictate what someone is attracted to? Attraction is far more nuanced than what you are describing and various things go into whether or not you are attracted to a specific person. Not wishing to have sex with a transperson that isn’t the biological sex you desire to have sex with is not equivalent to denying their gender identity. That is what I’m saying. Can I myself understand be attracted specifically to someone’s biological sex? No, but then again, I also can’t understand being attracted to only one sex or gender identity.

[Cekoviu]

This is why you should NOT trust the LGBT Mafia.

Mama mia, they found us out!

[Threlizdun]

Except no one is attracted to a person's chromosomes, but to a persons phenotype or primary and secondary sex characteristics. There is no single trans body type. There are trans people who transition and those who don't, and how they transition can vary. Attracted to women but have issues with penises? Good news, many trans women don't have penises, and those that do who have undergone HRT have penises that differ considerably from those of cis-men.

As much as cis people like to believe they can always "clock" a trans person, they really can't. Chances are you have seen pictures of a trans person before you found attractive, and if you were attracted to them before you knew they were trans, and that suddenly changes when you realize they are, then it isn't an issue of aesthetic preferences, but of transphobic prejudice.

Who are you to dictate what someone is attracted to? Attraction is far more nuanced than what you are describing and various things go into whether or not you are attracted to a specific person. Not wishing to have sex with a transperson that isn’t the biological sex you desire to have sex with is not equivalent to denying their gender identity. That is what I’m saying. Can I myself understand be attracted specifically to someone’s biological sex? No, but then again, I also can’t understand being attracted to only one sex or gender identity.

Except this conversation about "biological sex" and chromosomes only comes out when it's to justify rejection of trans people. You are right to say that sexuality is much more nuanced than that. Sexuality is influenced not just by innate desires, but by social forces as well. One's perception of what is masculine or feminine is socially informed. Again, I am not saying anyone has to be attracted to trans people, but that for those who say they are attracted to men or women but not trans men or trans women, they should examine why it is that they feel that way. Because at the end of the day, it usually comes down to a belief on the person's part that trans people are not the gender they say they are.

In the case of the person I initially responded to, this belief was expressed by them explicitly. They are attracted to cis men and women but not to trans men or trans women because they don't consider them the gender they identify as and call their genitalia fake. This attitude is clearly linked to transphobic prejudice. Simply shrugging it off as just a natural part of how people's sexuality functions ignores that such attitudes are informed by bigoted and stereotypical views of trans people that do not align with reality.

[Scomagia]

Except no one is attracted to a person's chromosomes, but to a persons phenotype or primary and secondary sex characteristics. There is no single trans body type. There are trans people who transition and those who don't, and how they transition can vary. Attracted to women but have issues with penises? Good news, many trans women don't have penises, and those that do who have undergone HRT have penises that differ considerably from those of cis-men.

As much as cis people like to believe they can always "clock" a trans person, they really can't. Chances are you have seen pictures of a trans person before you found attractive, and if you were attracted to them before you knew they were trans, and that suddenly changes when you realize they are, then it isn't an issue of aesthetic preferences, but of transphobic prejudice.

Who are you to dictate what someone is attracted to? Attraction is far more nuanced than what you are describing and various things go into whether or not you are attracted to a specific person. Not wishing to have sex with a transperson that isn’t the biological sex you desire to have sex with is not equivalent to denying their gender identity. That is what I’m saying. Can I myself understand be attracted specifically to someone’s biological sex? No, but then again, I also can’t understand being attracted to only one sex or gender identity.

Indeed. The argument that not being into trans people is anti-trans is very, very stupid. I'm not attracted to all races, does this make me a racist?

Rational people would say no.

[Cekoviu]

Who are you to dictate what someone is attracted to? Attraction is far more nuanced than what you are describing and various things go into whether or not you are attracted to a specific person. Not wishing to have sex with a transperson that isn’t the biological sex you desire to have sex with is not equivalent to denying their gender identity. That is what I’m saying. Can I myself understand be attracted specifically to someone’s biological sex? No, but then again, I also can’t understand being attracted to only one sex or gender identity.

Indeed. The argument that not being into trans people is anti-trans is very, very stupid. I'm not attracted to all races, does this make me a racist?

Rational people would say no.

Uh, if you immediately discount somebody just because of their race, it might actually?

[Lanoraie II]

It's not transphobic. I am not attracted to people who have fake penises and vaginas. I don't believe trans people are the gender they say they are either in the sense that they're on the same level or should be treated as such, although I'll respect their pronouns if only to avoid an argument. I also don't owe you an explanation for who I am/am not attracted to and do not owe trans people a chance for love.

Would you be less mad if I said I am attracted to cis men and cis women and not trans men and trans women?

> don't believe trans people are the gender they say they are
> not transphobic

Okay, I'm transphobic to you. I don't really care. I still don't owe anyone attraction for any reason.

[Threlizdun]

> don't believe trans people are the gender they say they are
> not transphobic

Okay, I'm transphobic to you. I don't really care. I still don't owe anyone attraction for any reason.

You don't, and no one is saying you owe it to trans people to be attracted to them. But you were claiming you were experiencing biphobia for expressing transphobic viewpoints, and that is false. You were the one coming in here acting like you were being discriminated against for holding blatantly transphobic beliefs.

[Scomagia]

Indeed. The argument that not being into trans people is anti-trans is very, very stupid. I'm not attracted to all races, does this make me a racist?

Rational people would say no.

Uh, if you immediately discount somebody just because of their race, it might actually?

That isn't what I said. I said I'm not attracted to all races, to which I'd add ethnicities, as well. I'm not saying there's a conscious process going where I'm calculating race. I'm saying some groups of people have features I find sexy and some do not. I am not, for instance, sexually attracted to the majority of latinos, this despite growing up with latino buddies in a pretty mixed neighborhood and having a large amount of latinos in my family. It seems a stretch to call that racism.

[Lanoraie II]

Okay, I'm transphobic to you. I don't really care. I still don't owe anyone attraction for any reason.

You don't, and no one is saying you owe it to trans people to be attracted to them. But you were claiming you were experiencing biphobia for expressing transphobic viewpoints, and that is false. You were the one coming in here acting like you were being discriminated against for holding blatantly transphobic beliefs.

No, I've experienced biphobia from people like you who immediately try to make it about trans people instead of the fact I don't find the trans condition or modified genitals attractive. And again, you can call me names but I'm all for trans people getting better and figuring out who they are, but I'm very against bodily mutilation and them acting like I'm a big meanie poo poo head for not finding that attractive.

I've literally said nothing but "I'm bi so I like cis men and cis women" and had some trans person on twitter skreee at me for it. It reeks of both insecurity and mental illness to be this overly defensive when a bisexual person excludes them, even though bisexual means being attracted to both genders, typically as they were born, not as they've become.

[New Lindale]

This is why you should NOT trust the LGBT Mafia.

Mama mia, they found us out!

LMAO

[Cekoviu]

You don't, and no one is saying you owe it to trans people to be attracted to them. But you were claiming you were experiencing biphobia for expressing transphobic viewpoints, and that is false. You were the one coming in here acting like you were being discriminated against for holding blatantly transphobic beliefs.

No, I've experienced biphobia from people like you who immediately try to make it about trans people instead of the fact I don't find the trans condition or modified genitals attractive. And again, you can call me names but I'm all for trans people getting better and figuring out who they are, but I'm very against bodily mutilation and them acting like I'm a big meanie poo poo head for not finding that attractive.

Are you this deliberately obtuse in real life? It's not biphobic to point out what is obvious transphobia in your mindset. The problem isn't the fact that you aren't attracted to trans people, the problem is that you have very obviously transphobic opinions about transgender people - that they aren't their real gender. You can't hide behind the shield of being a minority to justify bigotry.

I've literally said nothing but "I'm bi so I like cis men and cis women" and had some trans person on twitter skreee at me for it. It reeks of both insecurity and mental illness to be this overly defensive when a bisexual person excludes them, even though bisexual means being attracted to both genders, typically as they were born, not as they've become.

Ah, but here is the issue - that's not what bisexual means and everybody has changed since birth. Unless you're saying that you only want to date newborns.

[The Huskar Social Union]

This may be a bit off-topic in terms of OP's subject, but i felt that this needed to be made clear.


It is impossible to be bisexual.

Wrong, so so so very wrong.

Its very simple see: you fuck a man then fuck a woman and your bisexual.

[Lanoraie II]

This may be a bit off-topic in terms of OP's subject, but i felt that this needed to be made clear.


It is impossible to be bisexual.

I liken it to a mental illness as with transgenders; if you are a man, and you like men, you are gay. If you also like women, but are currently dating men, that still makes you gay.

You cannot be 'biphobic' if the very concept of being 'bisexual' is a contradiction in and of itself.

As with transgenders (a bit off-topic sry) - I find it a highly misused term. According to Google's definition, a transgender person is denoted as someone, "whose sense of... ...identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.."

To sum it up, you can be a man who likes girly things, dresses like a girl, 'talks' like a girl, but that does not mean that makes said person a girl. If your last pair of chromosomes are XY, then that means you are still a man. Asking people to refer to you as something that you are clearly not is akin to a mental illness;

Say if I were walking around claiming I was the second coming of Christ. People would, right away, ostracize me, laugh at me and dismiss me as loony. But when a man walks around calling himself a woman - asking others to refer to him as such - people encourage that type of behaviour?

But i digress.

Listen, I do not care what you do with your life, and i certainly do not care whether you like men or women. But if you have the need to go out of your way, and assert to me what gender you prefer me to call you, count me out.

If the entire crux of your personality revolves around the self gratification you receive when someone calls you something you are clearly not, you are a shallow human being.

Just be yourself, and don't bother anyone.

You literally couldn't be more wrong if you tried. The majority of people are at least a 2 or a 5 on the Kinsey scale. I like men and women, not quite equally (only sexually attracted to women, but mainly romantically attracted to men). I can confirm being bisexual is a real thing. and what does being bisexual have to do with believing/identifying with the opposite gender?

[Lanoraie II]

Op did mention transexuals and went on to talk about bi people... But I do agree with your point that the acronym is rather idiotic as it should end after LGB... Everything beyond it is the fetishization of mental illness

*** Warned for trolling ***.

Game mod, being trans is an actual mental illness. It's classified as a mental illness pretty much everywhere and was taken off the DSM solely because of backlash, with very little studies to back up the claims that it isn't a mental illness.

[Necroghastia]

*** Warned for trolling ***.

Game mod, being trans is an actual mental illness. It's classified as a mental illness pretty much everywhere.

No, it isn't.