Biphobia in the LGBT community

[Scomagia]

...Wow. I haven't seen that show and I'm now guaranteed to never do so.

Eh, it's a decent show, but it cannot hide the fact that it was made in the late 90's/early 2000's.

It's kinda like a time capsule of that time period. Believe it or not, the belief that bisexual people even existed was a revolutionary idea in America back then, that scene I shared was absolutely progressive for the time.

A decent show?



It's barely one step above daytime soap operas.

[Scomagia]

It's very saddening that bisexual people who go to the greater LGBT community for support would be rejected in such a way.

Of course making your "community" based around a semi inate quality is going to cause tribalist in-fighting. Sexuality alone is insufficient for group cohesion, particularly when so much emphasis is placed on othering yourself from "straights". Naturally, those closest to heterosexuals are likely to face bullshit from the more militant and cunty members of the "community".

[Cekoviu]

Also, fun fact, Miranda's (Short red haired one) actress ironically is bisexual IRL, and is currently married to a woman. Yeah, that clip did not age well.

That's hilarious.

[Cekoviu]

It's very saddening that bisexual people who go to the greater LGBT community for support would be rejected in such a way.

Of course making your "community" based around a semi inate quality is going to cause tribalist in-fighting. Sexuality alone is insufficient for group cohesion, particularly when so much emphasis is placed on othering yourself from "straights". Naturally, those closest to heterosexuals are likely to face bullshit from the more militant and cunty members of the "community".

I don't know why you keep putting community in scare quotes. You can dislike a community, but that doesn't make it not a community.

[Scomagia]

Of course making your "community" based around a semi inate quality is going to cause tribalist in-fighting. Sexuality alone is insufficient for group cohesion, particularly when so much emphasis is placed on othering yourself from "straights". Naturally, those closest to heterosexuals are likely to face bullshit from the more militant and cunty members of the "community".

I don't know why you keep putting community in scare quotes. You can dislike a community, but that doesn't make it not a community.

Because it doesn't resemble an actual community. Colloquially, it is a community, but it bears no resemblance to, for instance, a local religious community or a community of neighbors. It's really more of an association.

[Purgatio]

I don't know why you keep putting community in scare quotes. You can dislike a community, but that doesn't make it not a community.

Because it doesn't resemble an actual community. Colloquially, it is a community, but it bears no resemblance to, for instance, a local religious community or a community of neighbors. It's really more of an association.

The reason why people speak of an LGBT "community" is because we all are united by the widespread prejudice and institutional discrimination we face or have faced historically in most societies. If that discrimination goes away all together, then the 'cohesion' that brings all LGBT persons into a "community" with common interests will fade as well.

[Scomagia]

Because it doesn't resemble an actual community. Colloquially, it is a community, but it bears no resemblance to, for instance, a local religious community or a community of neighbors. It's really more of an association.

The reason why people speak of an LGBT "community" is because we all are united by the widespread prejudice and institutional discrimination we face or have faced historically in most societies. If that discrimination goes away all together, then the 'cohesion' that brings all LGBT persons into a "community" with common interests will fade as well.

I get why the word is used. I still don't think it is accurate.

And no, the unity is explicitly based on sexuality, hence the exclusion of heterosexuals. If it were just about prejudice then the language wouldn't be intentionally exclusionary.

[Purgatio]

The reason why people speak of an LGBT "community" is because we all are united by the widespread prejudice and institutional discrimination we face or have faced historically in most societies. If that discrimination goes away all together, then the 'cohesion' that brings all LGBT persons into a "community" with common interests will fade as well.

I get why the word is used. I still don't think it is accurate.

And no, the unity is explicitly based on sexuality, hence the exclusion of heterosexuals. If it were just about prejudice then the language wouldn't be intentionally exclusionary.

What institutional discrimination do heterosexuals face? Do heterosexual couples who hold hands or kiss in public fear verbal abuse from conservative-minded bigots or individuals? Do heterosexuals get exposed to messaging from religious leaders or religious texts saying their relationships are sinful abominations?

[Scomagia]

I get why the word is used. I still don't think it is accurate.

And no, the unity is explicitly based on sexuality, hence the exclusion of heterosexuals. If it were just about prejudice then the language wouldn't be intentionally exclusionary.

What institutional discrimination do heterosexuals face? Do heterosexual couples who hold hands or kiss in public fear verbal abuse from conservative-minded bigots or individuals? Do heterosexuals get exposed to messaging from religious leaders or religious texts saying their relationships are sinful abominations?

I think you missed my point. If it were just about combating prejudice, there'd be no need to exclude heterosexuals since doing so does nothing to combat prejudice. It is not. It is explicitly about joining non-heterosexuals based on nothing more than their being non-hetero. It is an identity based group. Any anti-prejudice aims are secondary to the focus on identity.

[Purgatio]

What institutional discrimination do heterosexuals face? Do heterosexual couples who hold hands or kiss in public fear verbal abuse from conservative-minded bigots or individuals? Do heterosexuals get exposed to messaging from religious leaders or religious texts saying their relationships are sinful abominations?

I think you missed my point. If it were just about combating prejudice, there'd be no need to exclude heterosexuals since doing so does nothing to combat prejudice. It is not. It is explicitly about joining non-heterosexuals based on nothing more than their being non-hetero. It is an identity based group. Any anti-prejudice aims are secondary to the focus on identity.

Right, and what unifying experience do non-heterosexuals have which heterosexuals don't experience? Fear of discrimination, prejudice and bigotry from others owing to one's sexual orientation or gender identity. That's the common denominator that gives rise to an 'identity based group'.

[Scomagia]

I think you missed my point. If it were just about combating prejudice, there'd be no need to exclude heterosexuals since doing so does nothing to combat prejudice. It is not. It is explicitly about joining non-heterosexuals based on nothing more than their being non-hetero. It is an identity based group. Any anti-prejudice aims are secondary to the focus on identity.

Right, and what unifying experience do non-heterosexuals have which heterosexuals don't experience? Fear of discrimination, prejudice and bigotry from others owing to one's sexual orientation or gender identity. That's the common denominator that gives rise to an 'identity based group'.

No. The common denominator is non-hetero identity. The identity itself gives rise to the identity based group.

[Threlizdun]

I don't know why you keep putting community in scare quotes. You can dislike a community, but that doesn't make it not a community.

Because it doesn't resemble an actual community. Colloquially, it is a community, but it bears no resemblance to, for instance, a local religious community or a community of neighbors. It's really more of an association.

Except our community has shared political histories, a vast number of organizations we have operated within, a culture that we have created, and a propensity to gather in spaces organized by and for other queer people. You can say we aren't a "real community" all I want, but literally most of my friends and the people I interact with at this point are queer. We have our own traditions, art, music, slang, in-jokes, and iconography. Yes, it's an actual community.

[The Rich Port]

The 'oppressed' group who demands tolerance is itself intolerant.
Fucking
Shocker

Why is oppressed in quotations?

Evidently, he doesn't know what the word oppressed means.

Also... Yeah. How can a group that asks for tolerance be intolerant.

It's an oxymoron lots of people ignore.

[Threlizdun]

I don't advocate for that. Queer liberationism contrasts itself with assimilationism, not in the sense of arguing for a seperate society, but in critiquing the idea that we all can or even should try to assimilate into a white supremacist, patriarchal, capitalist, settler colonial state. Further, it links our struggles to the fight for liberation for people of color, indigenous people, women, the working class, and disabled people. It asks that our activism return to a fight for the protection of our most vulnerable, rather than having those in our community who can donate the most money and appear least threatening to cisnormative and heteronormative culture. It's the idea that the culture and lifestyles our community have created are beautiful and worthy of celebration, not watering down so that we can be more acceptable to those complicit in our oppression.

XD oh jeez i shoulda worded that better, I wasn't directing it at you, I was directing it at the people who advocate for that.

But hey I didn't know your position on that so, good enough XD

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood who you were directing that to.

[The Rich Port]

WELCOME TO ANOTHER EPISODE OF WHY GAYS™ AND LESBIANS™ (BUT MAINLY THESE AWFUL CIS MALE GAYS™) ARE THE WORST PIECES OF SHIT ON EARTH

Yeah, literally nobody ever said that except you.

I'm not against people being cis.

I think you're projecting.

[Fascist Soyouso]

WELCOME TO ANOTHER EPISODE OF WHY GAYS™ AND LESBIANS™ (BUT MAINLY THESE AWFUL CIS MALE GAYS™) ARE THE WORST PIECES OF SHIT ON EARTH

Woah there, pal. That's a lot of edge, and this is coming from me. Chill lmao.

[Araraukar]

Surprise, surprise, LGBT people are people. In other news, water is wet!

EDIT: Also, 5% of humans are completely straight, 5% are completely gay, about 5% (or was it 3%?) are asexual, and the rest belong on the bisexual continuum in between.

Also, 99% of statistical data reported without any source are made up on the spot.

That's not, though. Look it up yourself if you don't believe me.

What pseudo science are you using?

If the name Kinsey isn't familiar, you probably don't know, so I suggest educating yourself. It's not a pseudo science like "intelligent design", but an actual real science that explores the human condition in terms of sexuality, sex preferences and related experiences.

---

I'm a gay nonbinary transmale myself (if that's too difficult, think "gay man" and you'll get close enough), but I've had straight/bi dreams or the random "I wonder what it'd be like to be with a woman" thing, without it completely freaking me out. I'm still not actually attracted to women. I'm also generally speaking not attracted to black (darker-than-your-basic-Latino, for those that keep count) or Far East guys, which I doubt has anything to do with racism and more just "meh, I'll leave them for others", just like I am with women.

Out of my five best friends (people I feel good talking about anything and everything with), two are bisexuals, one is asexual, one is straight, and one isn't certain (and yes they're "proper adult", it's not a phase). Two of them are also transgender. One of them is also nonbinary, three are women and one is a man. So if I think of some of the LGBTA+ categorizations that I might have problems with understanding how they can be real (not saying they and those people aren't, just that I personally have trouble imagining it - it's a fault in my imagination, not the reality), you'd need to go into things like demisexual or similar less well known ones. Maybe if a friend comes out as one, they'll know me well enough to be able to explain it to me properly.

[Rosewald]

The past few years have seen more and more progress made in regards to LGBT rights, with many countries legalizing same-sex marriages. I myself have been getting more involved in activism for LGBT rights. However, I have sadly discovered a sad truth.

It seems that even in the LGBT community, there exists high levels of bigotry. I have met many gay people that are bigoted towards transgendered people and additionally I have met many gay people that flat out believe that bisexuality doesn't exist and hate those who say they are bisexual with a passion. When I asked them why they hated bisexuals so much, I usually got one of two answers. The first answer is that they think that bisexuality doesn't exist and that bisexuals were really just homosexuals that were lying to themselves. The second answer was that they thought that bisexuality was just a phase that confused young people went through.

As a rebuttal to the latter answer, I stated that it is impossible for bisexuality to be a phase since people cannot change their sexual orientation since sexual orientation is the result of genetic and biological factors. I say that while a few people might think they are bisexual when they are really curious, most bisexuals are genuinely bisexual. That shuts up some of biphobes, but shockingly, others stated that they believed that sexual orientation is a choice. This is coming from homosexuals who are active in the LGBT rights movement. The same movement which works to spread the truth that sexual orientation isn't a choice.

I am not saying that every homosexual is biphobic, I have met many that are not. But, unfortunately, I have met many that are.

So what do you think about this bigotry that exists in the LGBT community and what can be done to solve it? Here is my answer. I think that LGBT organizations should distribute more information on bisexuality (at least as much as they do on homosexuality), and bisexuals should do more to become a more prominent force in the LGBT rights movement. If those two things are done then biphobia rates will quickly go down in both the LGBT community and the straight community.

I’m really sorry you’ve had those experiances. It’s wildly hypocritical of those other members of the LGBT community to treat you that. So many people in life are looking for a black and white answer or to pick a side. Sexuality is a spectrum. Most people don’t fit entirely on one side or the other. Before I came out of the closet, I’m gay, I would go out of my way to let me people know I hate gay people. I was dealing with my own insecurities. I guarantee you some of those people that treated you poorly are also dealing with insecurities of their own. Life is so short. There’s so much bigotry and negativity out there. The only real label you or anyone else should be concerned with is ‘happy’. If romantic relationships with both genders make you happy that’s awesome. Never stop being you and never stop perusing what makes you happy!

[Hurdergaryp]

Bisexual implies almost equal attraction to both sexes. The terms heteroflexible and homoflexibile are used to refer to people that lean more one way.

Huh, new terms.

Oh, those terms have been around for a while, but mainly in social networks for erotic lifestyles. NationStates General is not one of those, of course.

[Hurdergaryp]

I’m really sorry you’ve had those experiances. It’s wildly hypocritical of those other members of the LGBT community to treat you that. So many people in life are looking for a black and white answer or to pick a side. Sexuality is a spectrum. Most people don’t fit entirely on one side or the other. Before I came out of the closet, I’m gay, I would go out of my way to let me people know I hate gay people. I was dealing with my own insecurities. I guarantee you some of those people that treated you poorly are also dealing with insecurities of their own. Life is so short. There’s so much bigotry and negativity out there. The only real label you or anyone else should be concerned with is ‘happy’. If romantic relationships with both genders make you happy that’s awesome. Never stop being you and never stop perusing what makes you happy!

Globohomo = cultural marxism

A brand new user with an absolutely fascinating name suddenly appears while it still is the always eventful NationStates Summer, throwing a few words in the mix. Never heard of 'globohomo', but 'cultural marxism' is the buzzword often dropped by neonazi/alt-right agitators who like to think they are so very smart.

[Cekoviu]

A brand new user with an absolutely fascinating name suddenly appears while it still is the always eventful NationStates Summer, throwing a few words in the mix. Never heard of 'globohomo', but 'cultural marxism' is the buzzword often dropped by neonazi/alt-right agitators who like to think they are so very smart.

Can't you just see the connection between the promotion of homosexuality and the lowering of the birthrate of a nation?

Besides the (((alt-right))) is just a buzzword imo.

Lovely.

[Hurdergaryp]

Lovely.

He effortlessly ticks all the boxes of the recognition list, doesn't he?

[Ostroeuropa]

A brand new user with an absolutely fascinating name suddenly appears while it still is the always eventful NationStates Summer, throwing a few words in the mix. Never heard of 'globohomo', but 'cultural marxism' is the buzzword often dropped by neonazi/alt-right agitators who like to think they are so very smart.

Can't you just see the connection between the promotion of homosexuality and the lowering of the birthrate of a nation?

Besides the (((alt-right))) is just a buzzword imo.

Homosexuals want children too and facilitating them getting them fixes this issue.

[Saciu]

Hating bi people because they're being bi is - guess what - a really shitty thing to do. Thank God we're getting closer and closer to a point where we respect each other.

[Araraukar]

Thank God we're getting closer and closer to a point where we respect each other.

Despite "God" being used as a way to drive wedges between straight and non-straight people?